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Refer to my post. Do you really think we haven't considered people not running 4K displays? Why waste your time speculating on what you havent seen yet.

It already is :-P

Thanks @Cyanide Lovesong. We have the ability to turn on/off DPI scaling at the app level and also at the individual plugin level so it's all backwards compatible. See below. Also, to the naysayers, we have decades of experience writing Windows software and worked directly with Microsoft engineers with some of this DPI stuff over the years. Rest assured we know what we're doing, probably more than most others in our industry at least for Windows! So far we haven't had any performance issues issues, but as you say dynamically baking bitmaps is a fallback that we discussed a long time ago if it was ever necessary to do.

All the DPI awareness work done was for the Sonar application. Cakewalk Next is already vector based. Cakewalk Sonar is a hybrid DPI aware application. Plugin's need to be independently made DPI aware for them to be scalable. By default, Sonar assumes that plugins are DPI aware and if there are scaling problems noted it can be disabled on a per plugin basis. There is a new "Enhanced Display Scaling" option in the plugin properties settings to control this. However only a few Cakewalk plugins are fully DPI aware - for example the prochannel modules. For the others you may have to disable the per plugin "Enhanced Display Scaling" for them to work. When Enhanced Display Scaling is off we rely on Windows to handle the scaling when running high dpi monitors. In the future we may update some cakewalk plugins to also be DPI aware like we're doing with Sonar but it's not on the roadmap ATM. IOW High DPI support is not available across the board for all plugins. It depends on the specific plugin.

Your request is heard! We hold everyone's concerns in mind, but please be patient for pricing announcements, which are to come later this year. There's no need for panic or wild speculation in the interim. Just understand that we won't be commenting on pricing specifics until the information is made publicly available, on the website, along with additional, enlightening big picture information. In the meantime, focus on making tracks and, as always, keep your feedback coming on the product side of things. 😁 Thanks!

Guys I think there is some disconnect about what Sonar is. We aren't changing the core Sonar code from what Cbb is so its not changing the user interface. You can think of it as exactly the same as what you are using but with some new features. i.e. treat it similar to a major point upgrade over CbB. The UI will look nicer and be more modern as well.

Right here in Cakewalk. Press that button.

Having built up a collection of preffered 3rd party plugins over many years I don't ideally want anything bundled with it as I would never use it, so the option to have it bare bones as possible would be prefereable . Same goes with the bundled instruments which are merely adequate at best, anyone with a basic version of Kontakt will have a much higher quality selection to choose from.

They could also add the clause: This offer is limited to former LifeTime license holders on the condition that they shut the **** up and stop whining!''

Lemme get this straight: people are so upset that they are going to have to start paying for Cakewalk/ Sonar that they are going to abandon it and switch to another DAW. That they will have to pay for. The concept of logic is lost on some people.

Watching the Soc Media / Facebook reaction to this. People losing the run of themselves, already forming lists of whats the next best DAW to jump ship to. I dont get it bar maybe a learned memory of the Gibson debacle but this is completely different and not a crisis. I think there is just a bit too much unnecessary hysteria around this. I also think in general that expectation of FREE is a disease that is across much in our society now. Its also a bad habit. Back when bandlab took over CW I was expecting to pay for it and was sort of hoping thats the direction CW would go in. OK, when it did go free I did not complain but did have unsettling feeling that here we go again .. the FREE/Expectation thing. In my view FREE has wrecked much, its created a mindset where something no longer is valued or has value. Again in my view this is what wrecked MUSIC starting with the FREE music from NAPSTER back in the 90s, created a thing now that Music, bands etc no longer valued really. Add the proliferation of covers acts in the naughties plus many venues in 90s on FREE entry to gigs

No need to get sidetracked in the details of UI implementation. TLDR; we're making a scalable GUI for Sonar that will present clearly at any resolution and scale. The design itself is also getting a facelift. We'll share previews later when there's something substantial to show. In the meantime, we are acutely focused on oh-so-much-to-do!

Next is a completely new DAW designed from the ground up by us over the last five years. It was developed to be cross platform and works equally well on Mac and PC with full AU and VST support. The focus so far has been on creation centric features as opposed to the more production centric features that Sonar has. For example, it has very intuitive lyrics entry and song arrangements, a built in sampler and pad controller which is quite powerful, allowing you to set up sampler or instrument pads. While Next might look visually similar to the online web based BandLab Studio that's only because we followed branding guidelines. It has full integration with the BandLab ecosystem with integrated browsing of BandLab loops as well as upload and download to the BandLab library. The product itself is quite deep and includes many of the bells and whistles Cakewalk users have come to expect, like multiprocessor support, background plugin scanning and flexible routing. Routing is very simplified and elegant in Next and can all be done via track folders (unlike Sonar). There are many more exciting features coming in future roadmaps. I'm sure in the upcoming weeks Jesse will post more information about Next. In the interim, interested users are welcome to request beta access if you want hands-on experience with the application.

Indie Melodica is a Kontakt Player library we originally sent out as a holiday gift for all Orange Tree Samples customers, and now we’re making it publicly available, free of charge. As long as there are serial numbers left (there are 4,330 at the time of writing this), you can get a copy here. The library licenses the free Kontakt Player, so you don’t need to own the full version of Kontakt to use it. Indie Melodica includes two mic options to select between for different tonal colorations, and was recorded in a dry booth. That way you have more flexibility when it comes to adding reverb or room simulation to blend better with other instruments. The instrument features our proprietary phase locking technology, allowing you to smoothly morph between dynamics without encountering any phase cancellation. Being able to morph between dynamics means you can control how each note and phrase is articulated in real-time, rather than having to use keyswitches to select pre-recorded articulations for crescendos, accented notes, etc. All the samples are seamlessly looped, so you don’t need to worry about a note unexpectedly ending during its sustain. Furthermore, the library’s interface contains several parameters to dial in how the instrument responds. For example, you can adjust how much velocity affects the speed at which notes are attacked, or even control to what degree playing multiple notes thins out the instrument’s overall dynamic, a characteristic that happens on a real melodica. To get the library, head over to its page on our website to add it to your cart. Although the website will have you go through the checkout process, you won’t need to enter any payment information. You’ll instantly receive the serial number afterward, and the download for the library will get added to your account on our website. Once all the serial numbers have been claimed, Indie Melodica will no longer be available on the website, so don’t miss out on this chance to pick up a copy!

I, for one, have enjoyed the FIVE YEARS of "free subscription" to the Cakewalk DAW that Bandlab actually gave us.

Except the question you're responding to was not about pricing.

Imma have to order more popcorn due to the several threads here on this subject.

Yes, there is a plan for project interchange.

Yes. We are "Cakewalk" as an independent brand within the BandLab Technologies group. As Cakewalk, we have just announced two products: Next and Sonar. 👍

What would the world be without panic. We all need some

Chris, Cakewalk is a division of BandLab Technologies and a corporate decision was made to have us operate independently under our own brand. We are now a multi-product company and have two products Sonar and Next with more to come in the future. Calling the product Cakewalk wouldn't make much sense. Cakewalk by Cakewalk? Lol Also, there were numerous cases in the past where BandLab users were confused with the old branding and thought CbB was the BandLab web DAW (which they have now renamed to BandLab Studio). The new branding will alleviate issues like that.

I would bet that Meng, if he saw the resentment from the folks who are angry about their $199 spent in 2016 with a company dissolved by Gibson in 2017 that Meng didn't purchase (he merely purchased some of their assets) that he didn't anticipate this kind of reaction and venom directed at him. Seriously folks, from Meng's perspective, he just spent 5 years building what he expected was goodwill with this community and never charged us a cent and there are people angry with him about $199 they spent in 2016 with a company dissolved in 2017 -- a company that Meng didn't buy and an offer that Meng had absolutely nothing to do with. He's only invested money in buying some of the assets of that company from Gibson in 2018 and has never seen a penny of our money-- no revenue for his investment--yet still, some people folks feel morally justified that he should be giving them free product for life??? Other companies bought assets from that fire sale too. But you likely wouldn't hold them responsible for the business agreements made by the defunct Cakewalk Inc owned by Gibson because they're not using the Cakewalk website, trademarks or any of the software code from the former Cakewalk Inc. Bandlab doesn't have a legal or ethical responsibility to take on an offer between Cakewalk Inc/Gibson and its customers. Bandlab didn't buy Cakewalk Inc, just some of their assets. And someone taking their vitriol and directing it at a fellow forum member for merely making those points and misrepresenting a completely unrelated situation between me and a sample developer who didn't provide any customer support for his products for 11 months who made personal, defamatory attacks on his customer (me) when the customer shared that story publicly is not the moral equivalent of this scenario and it's an insult, not just to me, but to Meng's integrity to make that comparison. People are dumping on a company that has been ethical and has been incredibly generous misdirecting their resentment about their bad experience in 2016 with a different corporation called Cakewalk Inc that was owned by Gibson and was dissolved in 2017. Gibson was responsible for Cakewalk's agreements. They didn't sell that responsibility to Bandlab. Cakewalk inc was not purchased by Bandlab, some of its assets were sold to Bandlab. I get that not everyone understands business and seeing the same brand name, the Cakewalk website, and software that is primarily just an updated version of Sonar, results in their confusion, but they're lashing out at the wrong company. You made a contract with Cakewalk Inc, a company owned by Gibson that ceased operations in 2017. Bandlab is not that company. Gibson still exists, so it would make more sense for you to lobby Gibson for a refund or attempt a class action suit against Gibson (although Gibson's 2018 bankruptcy may have limited or ended those obligations; I don't know the answer to that), but Bandlab has no legal or ethical responsibility to give you free product for life. If, by chance, Meng gives a discount to former Sonar registrants, that would simply be a kind gesture, not the result of any legal or moral obligation. I was a Cakewalk customer that used their top of the line versions of Sonar and updated to each new version. I even bought the short lived Project5. But I don't think that Bandlab owes me special pricing merely because they bought the intellectual property rights to the software and trademarks Cakewalk and Sonar. If they named the product something completely different, I'm guessing at least some of the people who currently feel entitled to free product for a lifetime from Bandlab might be less inclined to feel that way.

My excitement about "4k" and "scalable" UI caused some questions/confusion, so I wanted to elaborate (speculate) based on Jesse's response: 1. It sounds like those who want the existing scale/size of Cakewalk to stay the same will be able to have that. The update will not force your UI to be giant. 2. When I said "scalable" I meant that the UI will scale to match Windows's scaling setting. It already does! It's just blurry, right now, when scaled. With the vector based update, it will not be blurry. (Depending on how they code it, they could put the scaling % in the preferences so it can be independent of Windows scaling.) 3. If you don't want the scaling -- as with all applications you can set it in the shortcut's "Change high DPI settings" option. This is something they could add in the preferences as well. 4. Other applications have proven that vector based UI doesn't have to be a performance problem. If they encounter performance issues, they can use a process that bakes scaled images based on the resolution needed, at which case performance is identical to bitmap. One of the Cakewalk engineers alluded to this (or something like it) as a solution if necessary. Bottom line? They got it covered! So there's no reason to panic about the vector update! It's only a good thing... And it will make Cakewalk viable for more users. Understand that right now any 4k laptop is stuck with microscopic UI or very blurry UI. The update will solve that! And anyone whose vision isn't what it once was, even on a 32 inch 4k monitor Cakewalk is a little small. 125% or 150% is perfect (or will be, once the vector update is released.) PS. Even if you don't need the vector update, it's represents something very positive from Bandlab: This is the type of update you do when you have long term plans for a product. It bodes well for the future! Let's help the team have a successful launch, and SONAR can grow as the userbase does!

So, do you have a subscription for your popcorn and does it scale properly?

Will SonitusFX be still included in upcoming Cakewalk Sonar? I'm not the only one who loves them. There are many beautiful reviews about how they work and sound. Discontinuing them just because they are DirectX and look old would be sad.

BRB, ordering more popcorn....

Um no where did you read Sonar mac in what I wrote. Sonar will not be ported to Mac. Cakewalk's Mac solution going forward will be Next. Going forward its just Cakewalk Sonar and Cakewalk Next exclusively.

"Cakewalk by Bandlab (the free DAW) will continue to work and be free with it getting its last and final update. " Until it deactivates one day and will not be "allowed" to activate by Bandlab. Local license please.

I bit on this, no regrets. Love Arturia.

Well, I broke down. Installed!

Just turn on the news.

I'm old enough to remember when this product was called "Cakewalk" by 12 Tones, not sure why they ever changed it to "Sonar by Cakewalk", and I certainly don't know why Bandlab is now repeating the same and turning it back into Sonar by Cakewalk. Is is it the brand or product? Was Sonar more popular than Cakewalk? I haven't been missing the Sonar brand and this seems to be just creating more brand dilution.

Yes.

But do you honestly think that even then those folks could abide by that agreement?

Wait... Are you telling me that no soldier could actually carry out what happens in the DOOM series of games? This is worse than learning about the Easter bunny...

In 2017, Gibson, which had purchased Cakewalk Inc in 2013, announced it was closing down Cakewalk Inc. Of course, they would have loved to sell the operational Cakewalk Inc for a good price, but were unsuccessful. In 2018, Gibson sold the intellectual property (the rights to software code, trademarks, website domain, etc.) of Cakewalk Inc and some assets to Bandlab. Gibson did not sell Cakewalk Inc. to Bandlab, just some of the assets of the company called Cakewalk Inc. that Gibson dissolved. Also keep in mind that Gibson declared chapter 11 bankruptcy that year, they were in a terrible state financially. So legally, Bandlab wasn't inheriting the contractual obligations of Cakewalk Inc., they were buying the company's intellectual property and some assets, not continuing the corporation's operations. Basically, it was a fire sale and Gibson was selling Cakewalk for its parts, the most valuable of which, beyond physical property, was its intellectual property (i.e. trademarks, software/code, website domain, etc). Now here's another aspect of this worth considering, IMO. If Bandlab didn't purchase trademarks like Cakewalk and Sonar and the rights to the website domain, and instead only purchased the rights to the software/code, they might have just taken some of that code and created a new DAW and let's say that they called it DAWlab. If they did that then I bet it wouldn't result in people who spent $199 USD with Cakewalk Inc in 2016 on Sonar updates to feel that Bandlab owes them free product for the rest of their lives. Agree or disagree? Legally, Bandlab was not purchasing an operating business and inheriting their contractual obligations. They were purchasing SOME of the assets of a corporation that ceased operations the year prior and was, in effect, sold for parts by Gibson. One of the people who weighed in is a lawyer who acknowledged that a few pages back. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm a former Fortune 500 business strategist (director) who used to assess mergers, acquisitions and purchases of corporate assets and a former business writer -- so I have some degree of knowledge on this area. I have NDAs, but I'll share that one of the companies I once explored purchasing was Intuit. But there has already been one lawyer who weighed in a couple of pages back. He acknowledged that there's no legal obligation for Bandlab in this matter, but he feels that because Bandlab bought some of Cakewalk Inc's assets, they still have a moral responsibility to provide free software to those who spent $199 with the since dissolved Cakewalk Inc. back in 2016. I think it's very clear cut that Bandlab does not have an ethical responsibility to fulfill contracts made by Cakewalk Inc owned by Gibson and believe that any resentment towards Bandlab over that is misplaced and not ethically valid. I'm not saying anyone's resentment is invalid. I'm saying that Bandlab is the wrong party to blame. If you're going to blame anyone, it would be more logical to blame the former Cakewalk managers who created and approved that offer. Gibson owned Cakewalk Inc, so I suppose you can choose to be angry with them that they didn't make a success of Cakewalk Inc. Some here have stated they blame Cakewalk Inc or Gibson for doing a lifetime deal when they knew they would be closing their doors soon, but I don't think those assumptions are necessarily correct. Cakewalk managers very likely didn't have certainty that Gibson was going to shut down operations and were likely desperate to see that not happen, as they'd be out of their jobs. Most parent companies aren't going to share that info widely with a company they own. A more likely scenario is that the Cakewalk managers that came up with the $199 lifetime deal were thinking it would quickly infuse cash into the business that might persuade Gibson to keep it operational. It's entirely possible that Gibson didn't get involved in such promotions and wasn't part of the approval process for that offer. But,I don't know anyone from Gibson, the former Cakewalk Inc or even Bandlab, so I'm just basing that on basic business knowledge and experience.

Are you friggin serious? So what you're telling us is that if the motorcycle manufacturer goes out of business and later I come along and buy all their now unused tooling and equipment, move it into my building, hire some of the old employees because they already know what they're doing and start manufacturing new and improved motorcycles that I'm on the hook for the old company's warranty and recalls. That's exactly what I mean when I talk about logic being lost....

To express one's concern about what will happen to the old program is completely legitimate. Some people have vast back catalogues of projects. It is completely normal to try to find out what is going to happen in order to start preparing old projects to be used with other DAWs, in the event that the new software isn't the right choice for them. Asking this question on this forum is exactly the right way of trying to find an answer. I'm sure there are a lot of people who would rather get on with finding another DAW (or not) sooner rather than later. People need to feel secure with the software that they have invested so much time in, and these unanswered questions do not help towards that.

Noel, you are a wonderful programmer and a very dedicated and helpful person. I have zero complains about how Cakewalk was developed in the past 5 years and looking forward to versions that will come soon. I get that this is likely is not up to you... However, it shouldn't be hard to understand to why I repeatedly insist that at least versions sold under Gibson should be permanently unlocked for those who bought them. Simply to have a peace of mind that I would be able to revisit tunes wrote within past 20+ years and not be dependent on a server that might or might not work in the future. Insurance / security whatever terminology fits better. I belong to another forum, where people often re-mix their tunes from decades ago. Senior folks. I can totally see myself tinkering with early stuff when I retire. It is unlikely that I will be using 2017 for re-mixing and do other technical things, but that version will give me the ability to export individual stems with their volume automations, and among a few other things properly. Very likely Sonar will be around and backward compatible .., but things might change. Those older projects of mine will not. I would very much would like to get some kind of input on this. Thanks.

So far there's no answer to that. We keep hearing about how current CbB will not be taken away and will remain free with one last update...And no words on if the 6 month period where you're forced to re-activate your license will remain. If yes, then there's nothing preventing Bandlab from pulling the plug on it at any point. Because all they'd have to do is take the license activation server for that version away without any modifications on the software itself.

https://audioplugin.deals/product/syntronik-instruments-j-60-by-ik-multimedia/

it's like Soundtoys isn't even trying anymore...

Yeah, from everything I've been led to believe over the last 5 years, the deal was they bought the code, the graphics, the names, and basically that's it. All debts and liabilities died with the Cakewalk company, and then Bandlab hired the old dev team to bring it back to life, and offered to keep the old product servers running at no cost and give us the flagship product for free for years. Those old Gibson-era products still work though, so in effect anyone who bought the licenses back in the day still can use those products, and all of the paid add-ons work fine with CbB, so even taking into account the ill-fated lifetime deal near the end of the company, that price kind of got everyone 5 years of updates via CbB if you want to frame it that way. Totally get that people are going to see it as they're going to see it though, and moving to a paid model may make some people move on - I think that's fine and expected. Nobody really knows what deal it'll be going forward, what goodies we'll get, if anything will be free as an incentive... it's all basically speculation for now, so rather than worrying about if the sky is falling, I'd personally hold tight and wait to see what's going to happen and then make a decision. There's been a lot of goodwill over the years, so it'll be interesting to see how it all pans out. I'm optimistic. For me personally, it makes no sense to go elsewhere to another paid product that I have to learn as well as I do Cakewalk, no backwards compatibility with my old projects, etc. just because I have to pay for this one. If I'm going to pay for anything, I'd like to pay for something that's going to be the easiest transition for me so I can just get the hell on with getting my work done.

I had been a fan of Cakewalk for over 20 years. I had very mixed feelings about the news. Here is what it boiled down for me. I absolutely believe in supporting a company that makes software I enjoy using. However, what bothers me the most is ability to go back to older projects in foreseeable future. 5-10 years from now if "something" happens to Bandlab. The only way to insure that I will be able to do that is by having unlocked license stored locally. The one that would not "expire" and will not require any servers to re-activate at a later time. To show good faith, Bandlab should unlock last patched version of CwB, even if it will not be supported after the release of Sonar/Next. If that is completely off the table, unlock permanently versions purchased under Gibson.

Raster vs Vector.

What part of "the people who work on the DAW don't create the website" is so hard to understand?

What may hold for one application has no bearing on what holds true for another. We habitually do performance profiling to ensure our changes don't add unexpected overhead. I see some folks are making assumptions about what "vector" means. In our case, vector guarantees that our nominal control sizes, text, background elements and everything else will render crisp and clear at any DPI and scale. I promise the app won't present absurdly scaled images or text and leave you with a wonky look. Rather it'll look "just right," on any display.

FWIW, some people prefer subscriptions. This isn't only about people who don't have enough cash upfront. For example, if you're collaborating on mixes with someone who uses Steven Slate's plugins but you don't have them installed on your machine, you can subscribe for a month or two, finish the mixes, and move on. Similarly, if you use Pro Tools Artist but need to do something more advanced for a particular project, you can subscribe to Pro Tools Studio for a month for $30. I'm not saying subscriptions are better, just that they work for some people even though they don't work for others. I think the most successful option for companies by far is offering both - subscriptions that include periodic minor updates or goodies, but these don't become available to owners of the "perpetual" version until they do the next major update. For me, the HUGE problem with subscriptions is if your work is held hostage when you stop paying. That's why I thought the old Sonar rent-to-buy approach of "if your subscription stops, keep using the program...you just don't get any updates" made a lot of sense. It was also quite generous compared to other companies of that era (I'm looking at you, Adobe). But putting all the pricing issues aside, the fact that Cakewalk continues moving forward and progressing is ultimately what matters. And it's much better news than "Thanks for your support over the years, we just sold Cakewalk to Wal-Mart, have a nice day"

Kind of deceptive saying "Free"....the free version doesn't allow you to "save"" anything...