Craig Anderton

IMHO the sentiment has already been expressed in no uncertain terms, and wil become a data point as Bandlab continues to make decisions based on their own business models and future plans. I recommend remembering that "always in motion is the future," and leave it at that.

Thanks Noel, that makes sense. I didn't quite understand whether "the software won't activate" meant you could or could not open the program. True, but I suspect that's only for the short term because the programs will diverge more and more over time.

So just to confirm...if your subscription lapses, you can't open your existing projects. However, you can renew at any time in the future, and open those projects. Correct? The context is if I want to collaborate with someone who doesn't use Sonar. They can subscribe for a month, open the Sonar project I send them, and then finish before the subscription ends. However, if they need to do a remix in the future, they can simply subscribe for another month and remix their Sonar project. Correct?

This is something I don't understand. Waves listened to the feedback, respected what their users wanted, and went back to offering perpetual licenses (as well as what's actually a pretty good subscription deal) within less than two weeks after announcing the change. Why would people swear off a company that pays attention to their customers and does what the customers want? As to talking about past history and bringing up Roland/Gibson, I think it's important to point out that BandLab has owned Cakewalk for 6 years. Gibson owned it for 4 years, and Roland bailed 5 years after becoming a majority stockholder. Give BandLab some credit for persevering where others didn't, owning and cultivating the program for longer than the previous two owners, continuing to update the program on a regular basis, offering a free version, and not shutting the door completely on perpetual licenses in the future. Credit where credit is due. This is not Roland/Gibson.

Disclaimer: I don't have any inside information. But I do think Sonar is here to stay. BandLab thought it was worth maintaining Sonar even when it generated no income. They even included a feature that I believe had a licensing fee, yet absorbed that cost. And, they've kept the team behind Sonar together. They did not do the usual "strip and flip" that happens so often when one company acquires a smaller one. I can easily see a program like Sonar fitting into BandLab's long-term plans. I wouldn't count out the possibility of a perpetual version at some point. But if I was BandLab, I'd make the initial foray as part of BandLab, which is the Big Dog of the operation. Remember, customer acquisition is much more expensive than customer retention. Potential "customers" from BandLab don't have to be acquired. If they get excited about Sonar and start talking about/using it, that will make it easier to convince new users who have nothing to do with BandLab to get on board. Non-US companies tend to think more about the long term rather than being concerned only about next quarter's bottom line. In my experience, this seems to be particularly true of Asian corporate culture. YMMV.

+1. When I've had problems with Waves updates, I just follow the instructions on their website on what to do. There are repair and clear functions that work very well. And at least in my experience, and the experience of others I know, Glenn is right about Waves support.

It's just a different paradigm that has its roots in live performance, as opposed to multitrack recording. Think of "loops" as "riffs." Suppose you have a four-piece band. You count off, and point to the drummer who starts playing a drum riff. Then you point to the bass player, who comes in on the drum downbeat and plays a bass riff. Then the rhythm guitarist comes in and plays a riff. That's just like triggering individual loops in Ableton Live. You can also tell individual musicians when to play a different riff. You can also trigger "scenes." This is like pointing to all four members and saying "on 4-3-2-1, start playing the chorus." Then they all switch to riffs that are in the chorus. Another "scene" would be where they all switch to a verse. Congrats! Now you not only know how Ableton Live works, but Sonar's Matrix View.

He's not a software developer writing music software for an hourly wage. As one example, a Senior Audio Software Engineer at Tencent makes $112,000/year. Starting wages are about half to 2/3 that. Bear in mind Tencent's revenue was $86 BILLION dollars in 2023. No DAW manufacturer comes within light years of that kind of revenue to spread around. Based on the usual 50/30/20 budget for a living wage, a family of four would need a household income over $100,000 to get by in Hawaii, Massachusetts, California, New York, Alaska, Maryland, Oregon, Vermont, Washington, New Jersey, Connecticut, and New Hampshire. There aren't a lot of music software development jobs in places with super-low costs of living. Even in Mississippi, with the lowest cost of living, a family of four would need around $75,000 just to get by these days. I assume you're getting your info from the 2022 Experian Automotive study, of which you mentioned only two cars. Here's more detail from that report: "For those with a household income above $250,000, 61% choose to drive non-luxury brands like Toyota, Honda, Ford, Lexus, Subaru, BMW, Acura, Hyundai, Mercedes-Benz, and Chevrolet." Well, I guess it depends on what you define as a "luxury" car. I'm not talking Alfa Romeos. Lexus is the luxury vehicle division of Toyota. Acura is the luxury vehicle division of Honda ("luxury" is the word they both use). For a typical BMW, you're looking at $50K and up. The average price of a Mercedes-Benz starts around $50K and goes up from there. For someone who's owned two cars in my life (66 VW and 2000 VW), an Acura, Lexus, BMW, or Mercedes looks pretty luxurious to me. For anyone who thinks that DAW manufacturers mint money, don't take my word for it. Buy some market research from Music Trades and check out the financials of music industry companies for yourself. I have. I'll shut up now.

Amen. Different DAWs are more like different accents than different languages. Some speak with a heavy accent, but it's still an accent.

I have a somewhat different perspective. I think they may have forgotten that it's no longer a world where people buy Pro Tools and tons of Waves plugins because the ones with Pro Tools are sketchy. It's not a Pro Tools world anymore, and for those who use it, they've probably accumulated all the plugins they want by now. I think a subscription model at the price Waves offered would have been huge, if it had come out 20 years ago. Times change, and these days, they change quickly. I'd place my bets on the companies that acknowledge and act on change, rather than the ones that pretend things haven't changed. I also have more respect for the companies that publicly say "we were wrong" compared to the ones that double down on being wrong.

Hmmm...I'd think a company being so responsive to customer feedback, and pivoting so quickly, is a desirable characteristic.

I have no definitive answer, only comments. Many companies have gone the route of perpetual license for more veteran users, and subscriptions for newer users. Although people cite Waves as proof that "subscription-only doesn't work," neither does perpetual only if you want to address as much of the market as possible. At least UA, iZotope, PreSonus, Avid, etc. seem to think that way. In terms of backend e-commerce, I've been told by others that it's more complicated to have multiple pricing structures for multiple products. $15/month keeps it simple. I think it was very smart to make Next part of the bundle. If people had to start with Sonar, it might be too daunting. Next gives them an on-ramp. Continuing to offer CbB for free is smart as well. At some point, those using it will be aware of the added features in "Nu" Sonar, and may very well bite the bullet and buy the sub. I think the main takeaway is that BandLab wants to assure users Sonar will be around. How they decide to pick up new users for Sonar only, or even whether that's something worth pursuing, is in the future. It may be that enough BandLab people start using Sonar that the idea of putting time and effort into wooing people away from Pro Tools and such just isn't worth it. I interpret saying "not at this time" as Cakewalk signaling they reserve the right to change their minds. So if you really hate subscriptions, you can keep using CbB for free while you wait to see if the company introduces a perpetual sub. For a reality check, don't forget the ultimate expensive "we have you by the gonads" subscription: Analog tape. $180 a year for Sonar is much less than what it cost for one reel of 2" tape that could record 30 minutes of audio. And that's not even considering that Sonar stuffs a quarter-million-dollar studio into your computer. I believe in terms of value received, that's pretty good.

Okay, that's different from calling them fools for not being into it for the money, which is how I interpreted what you said. The concept of people expecting to get paid for the work they do goes without saying.

Did anyone notice this from the FAQ: Will Cakewalk Sonar be offered via one-time purchase or perpetual license? At this time, Cakewalk Next and Cakewalk Sonar are available exclusively through BandLab Membership. Is Cakewalk Sonar replacing Cakewalk by BandLab? Cakewalk Sonar builds and improves on Cakewalk by BandLab, offering advanced technology, effortless workflow, and an interface that amplifies inspiration. However, Cakewalk by BandLab will continue to be free without a subscription requirement. While the software will continue receiving essential maintenance updates, no new feature development is planned as we prioritize advancements in Cakewalk Next and Cakewalk Sonar.

My kid is a software designer who turned down a super-lucrative job offer to help make smart bombs that could kill greater numbers of people more efficiently. People who value things other than money aren't fools.