BandLab Technologies reveals new brand vision for Cakewalk

[aidan o driscoll]

 

6 hours ago, aidan o driscoll said:

So NEXT appears to be an all new shiny ground up Cakewalk with possibly AI and it is cross platform for MAC. 

https://www.cakewalk.com/next

SONAR then appears to be "more traditional"? Following on from current CW? 

https://www.cakewalk.com/sonar

 

2 hours ago, bitflipper said:

That's a pretty good summation. 

This is pure speculation, but I can imagine Next far exceeding Sonar in the size of its user base and the two products having a similar relationship as Cubase is to Nuendo. It will be a long while before Next has a comparable breadth and depth of features to Sonar, but over the next couple years it'll cover more and more of the same bases. By then it will have become a viable alternative to Sonar for the majority of music creators who have no interest in becoming audio engineers, at a lower price point and gentler learning curve for new users. 

 

@bitflipper I find the real interesting point is the cross platform aspect of NEXT ( PC and MAC ) but no cross platform for SONAR. This suggests surely that NEXT is being written fresh from the ground up vs SONAR continuing with the existing code base?

This then asks the Q why are they persisiting with windows only SONAR? Maybe its to have a solid well tested DAW available while eventually developing NEXT to the point that SONAR will get dropped?   

Edited June 8, 2023 by aidan o driscoll

[craigb]

This is all well and good, but will Next be able to operate a DJ turntable??? 🤔

[paulo]

2 hours ago, aidan o driscoll said:

This then asks the Q why are they persisiting with windows only SONAR?

To pay towards making the other one would be my guess. The average long time CW user is probably unlikely to go for what the new one seems like it's going to be, so might as well try to get some cash from them while they're still on the right side of the grass.

[bitflipper]

1 hour ago, aidan o driscoll said:

This then asks the Q why are they persisiting with windows only SONAR?

Software written for a specific operating system can take advantage of any and every feature that O/S offers. Windows has made great strides with low-(kernel)level audio support, much of it based on solicited input from expert users such as Noel. This is why WASAPI Exclusive Mode is a viable alternative to ASIO. Cakewalk's close association with Microsoft meant, for example, that classic Sonar was always immediately ready for each new version of Windows on Day 1.

When you write cross-platform software, you have to take a much more generic approach and are often forced to make compromises in order to maintain a common code base. Optimization is harder. Testing is harder. You are going to have to hire experts in each of the supported operating systems. Development generally takes longer, so you're less able to turn around quick fixes and enhancements like we've become accustomed to.

 

[marcL]

1 hour ago, craigb said:

This is all well and good, but will Next be able to operate a DJ turntable??? 🤔

Or will Next transform itself to Previous one day?

[craigb]

1 minute ago, MarcL said:

Or will Next transform itself to Previous one day?

Oh, no!  This is a brilliant marketing ploy!  "When will we have a DAW with all the features we want?"  Answer: "That's coming Next!"

It's kind of like "Free Beer Tomorrow!"  It's never free TODAY.  😉

[marcL]

1 minute ago, craigb said:

It's kind of like "Free Beer Tomorrow!"  It's never free TODAY.  😉

It's a pity!

[Jim Roseberry]

2 hours ago, aidan o driscoll said:

This then asks the Q why are they persisiting with windows only SONAR? Maybe its to have a solid well tested DAW available while eventually developing NEXT to the point that SONAR will get dropped?   

My guess is that the existing (old???) user-base will need backward compatibility (for old/existing) projects.

[aidan o driscoll]

3 hours ago, aidan o driscoll said:

 

@bitflipper I find the real interesting point is the cross platform aspect of NEXT ( PC and MAC ) but no cross platform for SONAR. This suggests surely that NEXT is being written fresh from the ground up vs SONAR continuing with the existing code base?

This then asks the Q why are they persisiting with windows only SONAR? Maybe its to have a solid well tested DAW available while eventually developing NEXT to the point that SONAR will get dropped?   

"Next is a completely new DAW designed from the ground up by us over the last five years. It was developed to be cross platform and works equally well on Mac and PC with full AU and VST support.

The focus so far has been on creation centric features as opposed to the more production centric features that Sonar has.
For example, it has very intuitive lyrics entry and song arrangements, a built in sampler and pad controller which is quite powerful, allowing you to set up sampler or instrument pads. 

While Next might look visually similar to the online web based BandLab Studio that's only because we followed branding guidelines. It has full integration with the BandLab ecosystem with integrated browsing of BandLab loops as well as upload and download to the BandLab library. The product itself is quite deep and includes many of the bells and whistles Cakewalk users have come to expect, like multiprocessor support, background plugin scanning and flexible routing. Routing is very simplified and elegant in Next and can all be done via track folders (unlike Sonar). There are many more exciting features coming in future roadmaps. I'm sure in the upcoming weeks Jesse will post more information about Next.

In the interim, interested users are welcome to request beta access if you want hands-on experience with the application."

Edited June 8, 2023 by aidan o driscoll

[PavlovsCat]

18 minutes ago, aidan o driscoll said:

"Next is a completely new DAW designed from the ground up by us over the last five years. It was developed to be cross platform and works equally well on Mac and PC with full AU and VST support.

The focus so far has been on creation centric features as opposed to the more production centric features that Sonar has.
For example, it has very intuitive lyrics entry and song arrangements, a built in sampler and pad controller which is quite powerful, allowing you to set up sampler or instrument pads. 

While Next might look visually similar to the online web based BandLab Studio that's only because we followed branding guidelines. It has full integration with the BandLab ecosystem with integrated browsing of BandLab loops as well as upload and download to the BandLab library. The product itself is quite deep and includes many of the bells and whistles Cakewalk users have come to expect, like multiprocessor support, background plugin scanning and flexible routing. Routing is very simplified and elegant in Next and can all be done via track folders (unlike Sonar). There are many more exciting features coming in future roadmaps. I'm sure in the upcoming weeks Jesse will post more information about Next.

In the interim, interested users are welcome to request beta access if you want hands-on experience with the application."

I have a ton of Cakewalk and Sonar projects that kind of locks me into continuing on that path (that is, I have my existing projects and I'm very familiar and built workflows around Cakewalk/Sonar), but I am intrigued by what Next has to offer and want to at least try it out. I suppose it interests me in the same way that trying Ableton Live, FL Studio and yes, even the short lived Project5, once interested me. Using different tools did result in my making different creative choices in some cases. Does anyone else feel similarly? 

[pbognar]

1 hour ago, aidan o driscoll said:

"Next is a completely new DAW designed from the ground up by us over the last five years. It was developed to be cross platform and works equally well on Mac and PC with full AU and VST support.

The focus so far has been on creation centric features as opposed to the more production centric features that Sonar has.
For example, it has very intuitive lyrics entry and song arrangements, a built in sampler and pad controller which is quite powerful, allowing you to set up sampler or instrument pads. 

While Next might look visually similar to the online web based BandLab Studio that's only because we followed branding guidelines. It has full integration with the BandLab ecosystem with integrated browsing of BandLab loops as well as upload and download to the BandLab library. The product itself is quite deep and includes many of the bells and whistles Cakewalk users have come to expect, like multiprocessor support, background plugin scanning and flexible routing. Routing is very simplified and elegant in Next and can all be done via track folders (unlike Sonar). There are many more exciting features coming in future roadmaps. I'm sure in the upcoming weeks Jesse will post more information about Next.

In the interim, interested users are welcome to request beta access if you want hands-on experience with the application."

This is interesting - might Cakewalk Sonar will be a place holder DAW, until Next gets more "production centric" features?  Or will there be a Next Music Creator and a Next Producer?  (sorry, for just adding to speculation city...  )

Edited June 8, 2023 by pbognar

[aidan o driscoll]

23 hours ago, aidan o driscoll said:

So NEXT appears to be an all new shiny ground up Cakewalk with possibly AI and it is cross platform for MAC. 

https://www.cakewalk.com/next

SONAR then appears to be "more traditional"? Following on from current CW? 

https://www.cakewalk.com/sonar

Watching the Soc Media / Facebook reaction to this. People losing the run of themselves, already forming lists of whats the next best DAW to jump ship to.

I dont get it bar maybe a learned memory of the Gibson debacle but this is completely different and not a crisis. I think there is just a bit too much unnecessary hysteria around this.

I also think in general that expectation of FREE is a disease that is across much in our society now. Its also a bad habit. Back when bandlab took over CW I was expecting to pay for it and was sort of hoping thats the direction CW would go in. OK, when it did go free I did not complain but did have unsettling feeling that here we go again .. the FREE/Expectation thing. In my view FREE has wrecked  much, its created a mindset where something no longer is valued or has value. Again in my view this is what wrecked MUSIC starting with the FREE music from NAPSTER back in the 90s, created a thing now that Music, bands etc no longer valued really. Add the proliferation of covers acts in the naughties plus many venues in 90s on FREE entry to gigs   

[Keni]

21 minutes ago, aidan o driscoll said:

Watching the Soc Media / Facebook reaction to this. People losing the run of themselves, already forming lists of whats the next best DAW to jump ship to.

I dont get it bar maybe a learned memory of the Gibson debacle but this is completely different and not a crisis. I think there is just a bit too much unnecessary hysteria around this.

I also think in general that expectation of FREE is a disease that is across much in our society now. Its also a bad habit. Back when bandlab took over CW I was expecting to pay for it and was sort of hoping thats the direction CW would go in. OK, when it did go free I did not complain but did have unsettling feeling that here we go again .. the FREE/Expectation thing. In my view FREE has wrecked  much, its created a mindset where something no longer is valued or has value. Again in my view this is what wrecked MUSIC starting with the FREE music from NAPSTER back in the 90s, created a thing now that Music, bands etc no longer valued really. Add the proliferation of covers acts in the naughties plus many venues in 90s on FREE entry to gigs   

Yes! Nicely put. I felt much of this too. I’m actually happy to be going back to a paid version. I have much more confidence in the product lasting. I have been amazed at all that Meng did for us!

[PavlovsCat]

When Bandlab first released Cakewalk at no cost, I researched the company a little and, from what I could discern, that they were building a social media ecosystem around fans and artists, kind of an evolved MySpace combined with music creation tools from start to finish for artists/producers. From a strategy perspective, I've found all of it really interesting. It was clear that they were in need of getting to the point of critical mass to make the whole thing profitable, but then, how were they going to make serious revenue off of it to make it all worthwhile? There are a lot of potential points of opportunity for revenue, and they've more recently started seizing some of them, ranging from the music creation tools from start to finish (mastering) to graphic art creation to copyright tools and services to streaming distribution services to promotional tools and services. Clearly they were going to need to establish a decent and reliable source of revenue at some point, but when and where has remained the unanswered question until recently (they have been pursuing other for pay services before now).  It seemed rather obvious that they would likely begin charging for the creation tools at some point when they reached a certain level of users. I have been surprised they've went as long as they have without charging us for software or loops for that matter. I don't think they did it as a gift, they wanted to build critical mass. The tricky part is converting people conditioned to get everything free into paying customers. There are lots of potential ways of going about that, but, again, it's going to be tricky to convert a high percentage of people used to getting things free into people willing to pay a fair price for those same things. 

To aidan's and Keni's  points, there are  some folks who feel entitled to getting  things of value  for free and, when you give away your products or services for free for several years, it's hard for some of those folks  to see the value of what they've been getting for free fairly.  And I think there's another handful of folks that are bitter over stuff that happened with Cakewalk Inc that had nothing to do with Bandlab, but because Bandlab is still using the Cakewalk trademarks it bought from Gibson, it's a psychological obstacle for those consumers. Even so, that group of unlikely to be profitable prospects doesn't amount to a large amount of consumers, not enough to provide the kind of revenue stream I'm sure that Bandlab is looking for. Bandlab's greater challenge and revenue growth opportunity is going to be with a much younger demographic; the group the Bandlab product is now targeted at -- the market that NEXT will target. In any event, as some others have said, I like and appreciate Bandlab, and as long as they put a competitively reasonable price on their upcoming release of Sonar -- and don't move to a subscription only model (which I think is a bad move when targeting consumers; business buyers like subscriptions, consumers have a tolerance for a few subscriptions and mostly don't view software subscriptions favorably) -- so get that right Bandlab, and I will be a happy, paying customer. 

Edited June 10, 2023 by PavlovsCat

[swijaya]

2 hours ago, aidan o driscoll said:

Watching the Soc Media / Facebook reaction to this. People losing the run of themselves, already forming lists of whats the next best DAW to jump ship to.

I went to https://www.cakewalk.com/ & looked at the bottom of the page. There are 4 social-medias listed & I checked each one out. Only Facebook has recent (less than a month old) activities (comments), and out of the 33 comments there, only a few mentioned dissatisfaction.

Where is this list?

[aidan o driscoll]

1 hour ago, swijaya said:

I went to https://www.cakewalk.com/ & looked at the bottom of the page. There are 4 social-medias listed & I checked each one out. Only Facebook has recent (less than a month old) activities (comments), and out of the 33 comments there, only a few mentioned dissatisfaction.

Where is this list?

Go search for CAKEWALK groups and pages on Facebook for example. I cannot remember which one of these groups it was in BUT post had started asking the Q what alternatives etc

Anyway, over at Creative Sauce group .. a post:

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by aidan o driscoll

[Byron Dickens]

4 hours ago, aidan o driscoll said:

Watching the Soc Media / Facebook reaction to this. People losing the run of themselves, already forming lists of whats the next best DAW to jump ship to.

I dont get it bar maybe a learned memory of the Gibson debacle but this is completely different and not a crisis. I think there is just a bit too much unnecessary hysteria around this.

Lemme get this straight: people are so upset that they are going to have to start paying for Cakewalk/ Sonar that they are going to abandon it and switch to another DAW. That they will have to pay for.

The concept of logic is lost on some people.

[InstrEd]

12 minutes ago, Byron Dickens said:

The concept of logic is lost on some people.

So true that statement is!

[Sander Verstraten]

1 minute ago, InstrEd said:

16 minutes ago, Byron Dickens said:

The concept of logic is lost on some people.

So true that statement is!

Then again. I'm not on Apple....

[Paul P]

20 minutes ago, Byron Dickens said:

Lemme get this straight: people are so upset that they are going to have to start paying for Cakewalk/ Sonar that they are going to abandon it and switch to another DAW. That they will have to pay for.

It might be that if you're going to have to pay for your daw, might as well look at the other ones which, you have to admit, have bigger reputations than Cakewalk.

And do some things better as well.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Paul P