Kirean Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 1 hour ago, Craig Anderton said: What people seem most upset isn't about the Artst/Pro/+ split, but that Professional users can no longer buy the addons they bought in the past. The only way to get the addons is through a subscription. Consumer prices and values aside, I think this is also the biggest problem. In the YT comments the CS rep keeps touting how perpetual hasn't gone anywhere. Yet, they did remove perpetual licence for addons/plugins. They deserve all the manure being flung at them for that. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettelus Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 1 hour ago, antler said: Perpetual is ~300-400 for the first purchase. Then ~150 for an upgrade, which typically doesn't come out every year. That is pretty much it in a nutshell, but the upgrade tends to be less than $60/year to keep SOP current (the major version upgrades always go on sale for $125 or less every 2+ years). However, what seems to get lost in the kerfuffle is that these products are now so mature that the average user could probably stay with SOP 6, never upgrade, and be none the wiser (and not really care) about features in the future. Notion 6 hasn't been updated in years (many do not even care it exists), and pretty much all add-ons have 3rd-party perpetual alternatives that can be used in any DAW. After the lessons learned from Gibson, I would never buy a VST(i) locked to a DAW, let alone subscribe to one. After seeing feature requests blown off for years, paying someone for "future work" that has a habit of not happening is a no-go. I pay for products, not promises. 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vere Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 1 hour ago, mettelus said: After the lessons learned from Gibson, I would never buy a VST(i) locked to a DAW, let alone subscribe to one. THIS! I the process of trying all these other DAw's this is something you start noticing. Some of Cakewalks plug ins are a no go in the other DAW's and this creates a small/big issue for being future proof. It made me realize that one should avoid using any of these "locked" plug ins on your projects so you are not tied to that one DAW. It seems a lot of DAW's are priced based on how many of these goodies they dangle in front of you. Sonar is about to do the same thing, Most of us have all that stuff already. I found it humorous they dug up Session Drummer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bapu Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 I don't give two hoots about DAW addons or DAW specific tools. As y'all know I have a plethora of 3rd party tools to choose from. The DAW needs to work the way I need it and as of now Studio One 6.6 perpetual does what exactly I need. I will continue to pay for updates to Studio One Pro perpetual just as I will continue to pay for updates to all the perpetual licensed DAWs I have (except Samplitude 🙂 ). 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 1 hour ago, mettelus said: I pay for products, not promises. This is a good idea. Warning, incoming jibber-jabber: The Image Linesque FUD used to come up on the MeldaProduction forum years ago. "Lifetime updates but what if the company fails? They won't be taking in any new money! What if the guy this business is built around gets hit by a bus?" My response was always "then you get to use the plug-ins you paid for until they no longer work." Are you happy with what you have? Does it work correctly? Fine, then. Their policy is nice, but if you would feel cheated if the company ended tomorrow, don't spend your money. That's a substantial pile of software that PreSonus have shifted over to sub-only. I'll devil's advocate here for a second, but don't worry, I do think it's a bad move. On the one hand, one could say that at least the people who already had a 6.5 Pro license will be able to use those add-ons until the wheels fall off SPlat-style. Nobody has had anything revoked from them, if I get it correctly. Who loses is perp license fans who maybe were still saving for a Pro license, maybe Artist users who were planning to upgrade. They've been locked out of buying audio software from their favorite audio software company. That is a bummer to be sure, and it creates FUD about possibly future core features of SO getting walled off behind a sub model. Still, I don't see anyone being cheated here. Disappointed and disturbed, sure. Why I think it's a silly move on PreSonus part is first, the FUD. Favorite audio software company can't learn from all the poop that was flung at Waves for trying to sell plug-ins sub only? That signals market blindness on their part. Second, WTF, Fender? After 70 years of selling guitars and amplifiers, the don't understand the value of upselling accessories? These now sub-only programs and plug-ins are accessories, and now, while they may very well keep most of their perp license userbase, nobody who buys a perp license for Pro in the future will be able to buy these other products that they make. Seems silly to jettison potential sales that way. Of course that's the sad thing when dealing with a publicly-traded company and why I swore 25 years ago I'd never work for one again: Fender are not in business to trade music gear and software for money. They are in business to make the price of their stock go higher. That is all that matters. If Fender looks better to the Wall Street analysts because a certain percentage of their revenue is from subscriptions, then they'll try to force as many people into subscriptions as they can. And if they think that the best way to herd them in is making some products sub-only, then public opinion be damned. Wall Street analysts don't read KVR. They don't care if you pi55 off half your userbase. They care about how much you're spending on certain things, how many employees you have vs. revenues (and they're not great at knowing what industries require more or fewer people), statistics like that. Company reputation doesn't matter. If they thought that people's regard mattered, they wouldn't be stock market analysts. Fortunately, there are alternative products to everything on that list, including the DAW itself. Me, when I look at the psychology of what seems to work for subscriptions, what I see working historically is entertainment content, services, and consumables. Not so much for things that are "durable." Content is fine, I'm okay with my $15 a month Netflix, I get that much entertainment out of it, it's worth the price of a burger and fries. Consumables and services....yeah, there are deals to be had on razor blades, auto maintenance and the like. I don't have room for a gym in my home, so if I wanted to work out on machines, gym membership. And if you're a business, the lease model may be desirable, not having to deal with buying a building full of new furniture when the old stuff gets too banged up, just have the accountants send the payments off, makes it easier to see how much you're actually spending per year. But for individuals, I think we (or at least a large percentage of us) see software as more like "durable" goods. We want to choose just what we buy individually (I like this company's compressor, I like that company's reverb, etc.), we fear lapses in our ability to pay the subscription, and we want to be able to take a break from using it without having it nagging at us that we're not using it enough to justify $20 a month. People don't like feeling forced or coerced and we really don't like having things taken away from us. I can see where PreSonus' move feels like all of those things to loyal users. Also, it violates one of my principles, which is, to get people on board with one of two alternatives, do it by making the alternative you want them to choose better, not by making the other one worse. PreSonus are trying to do it by making the perp license worse. How should companies do it instead? Have subscriptions that grant you a discount over the perp license over a year's time, along with exclusive premium services and/or content. Don't make entire pieces of software otherwise unavailable. Loop libraries, presets, soundware, distribution, premium support are all great subscription perks. And never, ever block off something that used to come with a perp license. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bapu Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 (edited) Am I missing the point here? Was Lead Architect ever a perpetual product (i.e. SO 6.5) offering and now it's being taken away? Not the way I see it. It's a new product that was not included in the 6.6 perpetual product. Nothing was "taken away". It was just not offered to perp users as an upgrade feature. Am I wrong? (in the voice of Walter Sobchak) Edited April 3 by Bapu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antler Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 2 hours ago, Bapu said: Am I missing the point here? Was Lead Architect ever a perpetual product (i.e. SO 6.5) offering and now it's being taken away? Not the way I see it. It's a new product that was not included in the 6.6 perpetual product. Nothing was "taken away". It was just not offered to perp users as an upgrade feature. Am I wrong? (in the voice of Walter Sobchak) You're right about Lead Architect. It's more about the add-ons you can no longer buy (not everyone can say installed to every plugin 😁); see this post: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 15 hours ago, RSMcGuitar said: As someone who has had perpetual licences since v3, this is probably their worst move I've seen and I'm a Studio One user and fan. Look at the Youtube comments on the video Presonus posted about this update, really says it all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmPtTyX_1eE&t=17s This seems to be a trend in the software industry. You wonder who is next. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 20 minutes ago, kitekrazy said: This seems to be a trend in the software industry. Perhaps, but at least in the audio software market, there's a lot of pushback, and still, the only DAW that is subscription-only is <irony>market leader and overall powerhouse Adobe Audition. /<irony> Even AVID offer perp licenses for Pro Tools. The subs are cheaper and offer better perks, which is as it should be if you're pushing subs. Make the sub a more appealing option. I think that the pushing of subs will go through some changes and shakeouts over time. Software companies will realize that it works for some types of products and not others, they'll realize that some people just want perp licenses period. If we lose alternatives to subs, people will vote with their feet and switch to other products. The silver lining is that when both are offered, the subs do provide a steady revenue stream that allows the devs more freedom to bring focus to bug fixes and smaller quality of life features and take their time on polishing the big features. Witness CbB, which has in a way been a sub model, with BandLab paying our sub fees. I actually think the "hybrid" model is a good idea, it quells the fear of losing the use of it. After you've paid in, you can kick back and not lose your access. They just botched the implementation by walling off these extras. Maybe they'll back down. How long did it take for Waves to cave? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heath Row Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 (edited) 17 hours ago, RSMcGuitar said: As someone who has had perpetual licences since v3, this is probably their worst move I've seen and I'm a Studio One user and fan. Look at the Youtube comments on the video Presonus posted about this update, really says it all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmPtTyX_1eE&t=17s 9 hours ago, Craig Anderton said: What people seem most upset isn't about the Artst/Pro/+ split, but that Professional users can no longer buy the addons they bought in the past. The only way to get the addons is through a subscription. You might just find it's a little bit more than that. I own practically everything there is to own that is worth owning, everything I want. 5 hours ago, Bapu said: I don't give two hoots about DAW addons or DAW specific tools. As y'all know I have a plethora of 3rd party tools to choose from. The DAW needs to work the way I need it and as of now Studio One 6.6 perpetual does what exactly I need. I will continue to pay for updates to Studio One Pro perpetual just as I will continue to pay for updates to all the perpetual licensed DAWs I have (except Samplitude 🙂 ). How will you be when you go to buy your upgrade to Studio One 7, when the only way to do it is via Subscription? Beware at the fair. Edited April 4 by Heath Row Spacing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 31 minutes ago, Heath Row said: You might just find it's a little bit more than that. Could you elaborate on that? My understanding only goes about as far as Craig's. I'm just a lowly Studio One Artist license holder, but I'm interested in what's bothering the faithful. Is it that they see it as a slippery slope? A disturbing trend? Locking products behind a sub wall is dewsh enough for me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeringAmps Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 6 hours ago, Bapu said: Am Am is never wrong! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bapu Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 4 hours ago, Heath Row said: How will you be when you go to buy your upgrade to Studio One 7, when the only way to do it is via Subscription? Probably keep going forward if they have not broken basic functionality and offer more features. I'm probably in the minority but subscriptions are not a bugaboo to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njm255 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 I definitely understand why so many current users are upset. For someone like me who is looking at other DAWs this is actually attractive. I don’t need constant updates so I basically can get a perpetual for half the price. I’m fine using the 3rd party plugins cause that’s what I’m used to anyway. What I really don’t like is how they linked up with Tunecore. Dumb move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwal³ Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 tbf, we all have way more tools than we need, and the newest stuff seems to be all "ai"/you don't need to understand what's happening to get an effect/big hit song, basically marketing bs, so if we don't like the new offerings let's just stop buying stuff, i certainly have 🤷♀️ 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSistine Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 11 hours ago, Starship Krupa said: The silver lining is that when both are offered, the subs do provide a steady revenue stream that allows the devs more freedom to bring focus to bug fixes and smaller quality of life features and take their time on polishing the big features. Witness CbB, which has in a way been a sub model, with BandLab paying our sub fees. You describe here only the positive side IMHO! The negative is that the devs probably just care about things THEY like, i.e. things that not a lot of users are interested in! And with subs the voice of the users is somehow reduced! 11 hours ago, Starship Krupa said: I actually think the "hybrid" model is a good idea, it quells the fear of losing the use of it. Yeah, I think with the "hybrid" model my comment above is alleviated, but maybe still valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwal³ Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 40 minutes ago, CSistine said: the devs probably just care about things THEY like, i.e. things that not a lot of users are interested in! i'd suggest that it's actually the marketing peeps who decide what the devs dev 🤷♀️ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulo Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 8 hours ago, Bapu said: Probably keep going forward if they have not broken basic functionality and offer more features. BREAKING NEWS.......BREAKING NEWS.......BREAKING NEWS.......BREAKING NEWS....... Bapu plans shock move to buy more stuff. More to follow........ 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fret_man Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Oomph! No PayPal? That sucks... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now