Introducing Cakewalk Next and our new brand identity

[Moskus]

As stated by others, pricing is everything!

I would recommend going the route of Davinci Resolve. It has a "free version" which works great and has like 99% of the features, but if you really want the advanced (and cool!) stuff you need the "Studio" version. Which is a one time payment, no subscription.

And please keep your price reasonable.

[MarianoGF]

19 hours ago, Lord Tim said:

That's an entirely different company who no longer exists, so I guess you need to ask Gibson about that rather than Bandlab.

Mmm, I'm not expecting BandLab to honour those who purchased lifetime updates, but lets say that when you acquire a company, you do it with its assets and liabilities.

[ancjava]

Any idea when we can expect more info about pricing? As I understand You want to know what the community expects and it clearly looks like 90% wants one time payment option as a priority

[ancjava]

Also i am intersted - all the plugins that were in CbB and all pro channel modules will be avalible in new Sonar?

[sjoens]

9 hours ago, Jesse Jost said:

Just a note about "the new Sonar"... Sonar will provide exactly the same control layout, menus, commands and workflow as CbB has today. However, the UI will be dramatically improved: clearer text, scalable views, support for high DPI resolutions and multi monitor configurations.

The net experience for most should be massively improved over CbB. As we move from bitmaps to scalable vector images and dynamically colored backgrounds, the notion of customizing the UI becomes infinitely simpler, while the current notion of heavy handed theming quickly becomes irrelevant.

I wouldn't say "irrelevant" unless I can re-create a couple of nice themes I've worked long & hard to complete. Colors are nice but imagery is everything.  I get not using images from a developer's viewpoint as scalable GUIs require multiple sets of images to implement sizing requirements.  Editing multiple sets of the same images would be daunting.  But I have more issues with plugin text than I do with the main GUI text.

[GroverKen]

I’ve been a user (and serial upgrader) of Cakewalk since the Windows 3.0 version and would ask one thing - please don’t lose the backwards compatibility. Last week I resurrected a project from February 1999 when I saved everything as .bun files. Lo and behold, the latest version unpacked everything successfully and I could continue from where I had left off all those years ago. My workflow may have changed and there might now many more “toys” to play with but it worked. Impressive!

Edited June 7, 2023 by GroverKen

[Lord Tim]

28 minutes ago, MarianoGF said:

Mmm, I'm not expecting BandLab to honour those who purchased lifetime updates, but lets say that when you acquire a company, you do it with its assets and liabilities.

No you don't if you only purchase their intellectual property, which Bandlab did. They didn't purchase the company at all, just the code to make the program. They also hired the programmers that Gibson fired. But this is 100% a new unrelated company otherwise.

[Jean-Philippe ROGER]

Hello !

Paying for complete and functional software doesn't bother me, I've done it since Sonar X1 and up to Sonar Platinum but I would like issues such as the assignment of outputs on the external effects module to be corrected

[Grebz]

8 hours ago, rfssongs said:

To me anyway I thought the theme editor was a waste of time. Both to use & to create. This is about music not graphics. I read about it, even downloaded it. I don't even think I ever used it. I figured why bother. If it does not help with the music then why ? IMO.

Because it's fun to customize the tools you use. Nobody forces you to use the Theme Editor. If you don't see the point, why even bother downloading it? I love making themes. My whole life doesn't revolve around music and music only. I take great pleasure in making music with Cakewalk/Sonar, AND I take great pleasure in making themes.

Sonar team:
I'm very glad the new interface is vector-based, I've been hoping and waiting for this for years, but I'm bitterly disappointed that we can no longer edit the icons and graphic elements (if that's the case).
Why not? If we have the know-how, the will and the time to offer the community original and varied new themes, why not give us the tools to do so?

[Take59]

What happens to users who are entitled to Lifetime Updates on SONAR Platinum? SONAR Platinum was discontinued shortly after I paid the lifetime update fee. I think it will be a problem if the rights are not continued in the new SONAR.

[msmcleod]

6 minutes ago, Grebz said:

Sonar team:
I'm very glad the new interface is vector-based, I've been hoping and waiting for this for years, but I'm bitterly disappointed that we can no longer edit the icons and graphic elements (if that's the case).
Why not? If we have the know-how, the will and the time to offer the community original and varied new themes, why not give us the tools to do so?

The transition to vector based images is taking several months. 

To support user vector graphics will require writing a completely new Theme Editor.  We're not saying this will never be done, but it won't be done for the first release of Sonar.

[ancjava]

Can staff confirm if the new Sonar will require more resources than CbB or if the PC that run CbB smoothly (in my case 4 core CPU and 16 GB of RAM) should be enough to get the same performance out of new Sonar?

[Grebz]

10 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

The transition to vector based images is taking several months. 

To support user vector graphics will require writing a completely new Theme Editor.  We're not saying this will never be done, but it won't be done for the first release of Sonar.

Yes, please give me hope 🙂
Not now, for sure, but "We're not saying this will never be done" is sweet to my ears. Yes, please, do it at some point.
You know what? Theme-makers can actually make people more attracted to a software. Some may not like the basic look, but if they can find a theme they enjoy, then they will want to use the software more.

I know, it's not much, but looks are also important, and the community is very sensitive to customization possibilities. Look at the Reaper community, how they brag "oh we can change this, edit that, and the other DAWs can't, ha ha ha, got you, we're the best".
So pretty pretty please, with sugar on top, allow us to make you shine among the stars 😁

(Sonar user since 2005, here)

[Lord Tim]

35 minutes ago, ancjava said:

Can staff confirm if the new Sonar will require more resources than CbB or if the PC that run CbB smoothly (in my case 4 core CPU and 16 GB of RAM) should be enough to get the same performance out of new Sonar?

From what I understand from the posts by the devs, other than the new UI update that's coming and probably a few new bells and whistles, this is going to be identical to the current CbB under the hood on launch.

[msmcleod]

13 minutes ago, Lord Tim said:

49 minutes ago, ancjava said:

Can staff confirm if the new Sonar will require more resources than CbB or if the PC that run CbB smoothly (in my case 4 core CPU and 16 GB of RAM) should be enough to get the same performance out of new Sonar?

From what I understand from the posts by the devs, other than the new UI update that's coming and probably a few new bells and whistles, this is going to be identical to the current CbB under the hood on launch.

This is correct.  It'll be just CbB with new images, high dpi support and a few extra feature enhancements.

There is obviously some difference between rendering vector based images vs static bitmaps, but we'll be monitoring the performance of this closely as more of the application is converted over.  There are a few approaches we can take to mitigate any adverse performance effects of rendering vector based images, should it become a problem.

[Canopus]

58 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

To support user vector graphics will require writing a completely new Theme Editor.  We're not saying this will never be done, but it won't be done for the first release of Sonar.

I assume these vector images are stored as svg files. May I ask, are these images stored as SVG in a resource DLL (which of course is what an *.sth/theme file basically is)?

[chris.r]

6 hours ago, flangad said:

15 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

>>"Annual" means no expiry / no deactivation after one year,   just no further free updates after the year, right?

Exactly. We were one of the few companies offering this model even in the SONAR days. How it works is you either pay for 12 consecutive monthly subs OR you purchase a one year subscription upfront. In both scenarios the last months version is permanently unlocked for you and you own it(...)

 

This model is fair if "updates" means "new features", but what about bug corrections? if someone paid for a software with lifetime use, at least bug corrections should be available for free with no time limits.

I'm afraid there will be no such thing as "permanently unlocked" and "you own it" nor even lifetime use the way we would like to see it. The 6 months authorization period is embedded in Cakewalk's code since at least Sonar Platinum if not earlier. They'll still hold the plug and ultimately they will decide anytime if they want to pull it out or not, we're depending on their grace and I don't even expect it to change in a slight way, period.

Ever since CbB has started with this sort of lock scheme I had the feelings something is going in the background, even in a post I compared the 6-months authorization to a (free) subscription when I got bashed in the head by many, only now it occurred to me that after 5 years of some sort of an intermission period they now can go back to the previous scheme of business. To me it seems clear now that was probably the hidden plan since beginning. A free software with 6-months authorization, oh come on!

How many times you can step into the same river? Once in my life I decided to make an exception and took a risk when buying into lifetime updates, LOL! And I even wasn't aware of the 6-months lock scheme at that moment.

6 hours ago, JnTuneTech said:

But make no mistake - software is not like the hardware it runs on or say, a toaster or a pair of shoes for instance, -perchance in our world maybe a nicely crafted guitar even.  -With software, all that is sold, or given access to for free, -depending on the licensing terms-, is whatever rights are stated in the TOS for us to use it. -Not own it. I know I never have. I don't own any software products or IP.

We know, it's just a wording. Example: I bought a keyboard and I can still use it even after the company has gone, I can use it until it's broken. With the licensing, what we would expect is to hold the right to use a paid software anytime (even after end of a company), not just 'rent' the right to use it until the company changes rules. Hold rights to use, not own the software, we get that.

For now with Cakewalk it's: renew your right to use it every 6-months, it's not "permanently", "owned" not even lifetime in it's original meaning (life of the company), in fact it's: util we pull the plug out. To me it's like false marketing, it's more like 'rent' and I never want to pay for that. I would want my software, that I hold rights to use indefinitely after I've bought it, to be able to install and run even after the company is gone provided all factors such as hardware and OS are intact. We're not getting it at all since some earlier versions of Cakewalk, think it's X2 or X1, we're only 'renting' it so long they allow us (have you experienced it going demo mode? I had, when there was some server error). Thankfully they keep it live so far.

The software may get "broken" by OS updates or change in hardware, or incompatibility with new plugins. Here's where we need the updates, that is fixes (apart from new features), free or paid depending on the company's chosen scheme. Lifetime updates should then grant you at least free updates (fixes) for the rest of life of the company. As simple as that.

Edited June 7, 2023 by chris.r

[Misha]

 "I would want my software, that I hold rights to use indefinitely after I've bought it, to be able to install and run even after the company is gone provided all factors such as hardware and OS are intact"

+1 

That is exactly what worried me since early days of Bandlab. I have projects from 90s that I do want to go back to at some point in my life and I don't want to be dependent on some server that might or might not work or mercy at those who might run he company in the future.  I still have boxed X1 and an older laptop that will allow to open older projects. That is what I want to see with "unlocked" paid future versions.

P.S. In my view, the whole 6month activation thing is absolutely meaningless,  as those who want to steal, will steal, but those who actually pay and support progress will suffer.   

[Noel Borthwick]

4 hours ago, GroverKen said:

I’ve been a user (and serial upgrader) of Cakewalk since the Windows 3.0 version and would ask one thing - please don’t lose the backwards compatibility. Last week I resurrected a project from February 1999 when I saved everything as .bun files. Lo and behold, the latest version unpacked everything successfully and I could continue from where I had left off all those years ago. My workflow may have changed and there might now many more “toys” to play with but it worked. Impressive!

Won't happen. It's the same base codebase so no functionally changes. It will be 100% compatible with earlier projects

[Byron Dickens]

3 hours ago, Take59 said:

What happens to users who are entitled to Lifetime Updates on SONAR Platinum? SONAR Platinum was discontinued shortly after I paid the lifetime update fee. I think it will be a problem if the rights are not continued in the new SONAR.

What is so hard to understand about the company that made that deal with you doesn't exist any more?