John T Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 (edited) ... Edited March 21 by John T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 Thank You John! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John T Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 (edited) No worries! I think it'll be interesting if more of us have a mess around with it and report our thoughts. I get the feeling quite a lot of posts are coming from people who've just seen screen shots. And that's valid, of course. But I've found that using it has changed my mind about a lot of my initial screen shot impressions. Edited March 21 by John T 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resonant Serpent Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 As long as what I pay in a subscription goes towards a purchase, I have no problem with it. Currently buying about 20 plugins on Splice and everything offered by other companies like Kiloheartz and Minimal Audio. I make payments, but I eventually own the software. I ended up canning my Presonus subscription because there was no end game. I'd never own the software through that route, and the "perks" like listening to two guys break down a mix or some lame sample material that I'd never use simply weren't worth the cost. I took the same money per month and bought an upgrade to Studio One through Zzounds. That's why I don't like the current subscription model for Sonar. There's no ownership of the program, and I simply don't need what Bandlab is offering. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Nelson Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 So far, users have to wrap our heads around, 1. The announcement was made, what, nine months ago? It's uncommon to say the least for a rollout to take this along. Especially since.... 2. There really are no feature updates. Just a HiDPI update and some bug fixes, which is expected from any product. 3. There has been zero clarity as to how much the thing will sell for and how it will be paid. The "pssst, over here" Bandlab sneak peek thing is lame. Sorry, it just is. Someone who subscribes to Bandlab just for the Sonar access might end up paying twice one the real pricing is rolled out. This is the weirdest, softest rollout of any software I have ever seen, bar none. 4. And Bandlab...some legacy Cakewalk Plugins and Virtual Instruments aren't really worth much of anything in 2024. Session Drummer? Concrete Limiter? C'mon man. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno de Souza Lino Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 On 3/16/2024 at 3:10 PM, norfolkmastering said: Can anyone clarify if Backstage Pass is now the route to Sonar access for the foreseeable future or is Sonar going to be available to purchase? I wouldn't put money on it based on how strange the whole interaction was when the commercial versions were announced. It was obvious they wanted to not be on the receiving end of the obvious discontent with the probability of the product being subscription only. I have serious reservations about companies which apply mushroom management (being kept in the dark and fed manure) to their users. Then they complain about people creating FUD when it's their fault for keeping information under wraps. I wouldn't be surprised if their current game is making people wait until they move on so they can perpetuate the subscription plan as the only available option. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol_Jonesey Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 2 hours ago, John Nelson said: So far, users have to wrap our heads around, 1. The announcement was made, what, nine months ago? It's uncommon to say the least for a rollout to take this along. Especially since.... 2. There really are no feature updates. Just a HiDPI update and some bug fixes, which is expected from any product. 3. There has been zero clarity as to how much the thing will sell for and how it will be paid. The "pssst, over here" Bandlab sneak peek thing is lame. Sorry, it just is. Someone who subscribes to Bandlab just for the Sonar access might end up paying twice one the real pricing is rolled out. This is the weirdest, softest rollout of any software I have ever seen, bar none. 4. And Bandlab...some legacy Cakewalk Plugins and Virtual Instruments aren't really worth much of anything in 2024. Session Drummer? Concrete Limiter? C'mon man. Regarding 2 - you're wrong. see here 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB7 Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 (edited) I sort of took from Noel's post, that if one buys the bandlab membership, then that includes Sonar and that there would be no price increase for those who bought that membership to keep Sonar. If that is wrong, please advise. Thank you. Edited March 21 by AB9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misha Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 I think it is safe to assume that many will flee if the deal will be "membership" only. It would be strange to assume Bakers didn't learn a very valuable lesson from Waves, when they tried to pull off a fast one and had to back peddle it within a VERY short period of time. Even after they came to their senses, it stopped me from having any interest of what that company had/has to offer. From what Noel had mentioned in the past, there will be different OPTIONS and I hope (and have faith) perpetual licenses will be available and fairly priced. If not, there are many choices of DAWs out there. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Kelley Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 (edited) The "Bakers" don't have any control over the rollout plan. They said it before and can say it again. They aren't setting the prices and terms - Bandlab is. We should be sending emails and comments to Bandlab and let the developers work on the program in peace. The problem with these types of "get your music heard" subscriptions is they don't work. Of the people I have spoken too about Bandlab, Landr, Soundcloud, etc. people rarely go there to find new music. They hear it elsewhere and go to these place to find what they heard. Now many of these places do distribute your music to various sites (Youtube, Amazon, Spotify, Pandora, Jango, etc.) for a cost (to you) but in the end, playing live is how you get exposed. Tossing a bunch of tracks on Soundcloud and then having them distributed will pretty much get you nothing - most of the time. There are some success stories but they are rare. I really don't want to have to buy/pay/rent/subscribe to sites like this. I want a DAW. It's simple. A DAW. Bandlab is not a carrot. Edited March 21 by Terry Kelley 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSistine Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 56 minutes ago, Misha said: From what Noel had mentioned in the past, there will be different OPTIONS and I hope (and have faith) perpetual licenses will be available and fairly priced. The only question that arises: Is a license really perpetual, if it has to be reactivated each 6 months? Can you trust that you will be able to reactivate in the future? Or will they urge you to buy a new version, again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno de Souza Lino Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 2 hours ago, Bristol_Jonesey said: Regarding 2 - you're wrong. see here Except it's hard to make that statement because there are no detailed release notes on what was fixed. 1 hour ago, Misha said: I think it is safe to assume that many will flee if the deal will be "membership" only. It would be strange to assume Bakers didn't learn a very valuable lesson from Waves, when they tried to pull off a fast one and had to back peddle it within a VERY short period of time. Even after they came to their senses, it stopped me from having any interest of what that company had/has to offer. The difference here is that Bandlab can force that onto their users because I don't think the current userbase is large enough to put any pressure on the company to force change. The whole argument of holding pricing information and never being direct when asked about that when it was first announced nowadays feels more like they were testing to see how users would react with a subscription only model and to cause people not content with that to jump ship early so Bandlab would be met with little resistance when they introduced a subscription only model. 1 hour ago, Misha said: From what Noel had mentioned in the past, there will be different OPTIONS and I hope (and have faith) perpetual licenses will be available and fairly priced. He was right. There are different subscription tiers, giving you three options. Considering the financial journey, I don't think we're gonna perpetual licenses. They don't provide the instant profit shareholders demand and fail to keep users tied to an ancient piece of software which hasn't received significant updates for the last 20 years. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misha Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 47 minutes ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said: There are different subscription tiers, giving you three options. Will you wash my dishes and do laundry for a month if you are wrong? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynn Wilson Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 "Considering the financial journey, I don't think we're gonna perpetual licenses. They don't provide the instant profit shareholders demand and fail to keep users tied to an ancient piece of software which hasn't received significant updates for the last 20 years." Perhaps you missed ripple editing, articulation maps, tempo tracks, and numerous stability fixes while it's been free Maybe you're barking up the wrong tree? My version runs better than it ever did before Bandlab took over 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John T Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 That 20 years claim is so silly, I can only assume the poster doesn't even want to be taken seriously. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 22 hours ago, John T said: No worries! I think it'll be interesting if more of us have a mess around with it and report our thoughts. I get the feeling quite a lot of posts are coming from people who've just seen screen shots. And that's valid, of course. But I've found that using it has changed my mind about a lot of my initial screen shot impressions. So they both install to the original CW directory? Just checking. Thanks and sorry but I couldn't find the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vere Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 My 2 cents. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 4 hours ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said: they were testing to see how users would react with a subscription only model and to cause people not content with that to jump ship early so Bandlab would be met with little resistance when they introduced a subscription only model. So your theory is that BandLab's strategy was/is to announce the product early and with scant information regarding pricing (including no mention of mandatory subscription licensing) so that by the time it's actually released, enough users will have given up on it that there won't be enough left to join together in protest of the licensing being subscription-only? In other words, jettisoning a large percentage of the user base in order to have a smaller, subscription-accepting user base. That would certainly be a novel strategy. It would bring them in line with the other DAW's out there that have gone subscription-only. Like....um....trying to think here....Adobe Audition? Pro Tools I guess is one DAW whose developers could have pursued that strategy, seemingly doing whatever they could to whittle their user base down until it was mostly comprised of industry professionals and diehards who favor or tolerate the subscription model. Yet even PT still offers a perpetual license. If true, one would have to admire their commitment to subscription licensing. Most software manufacturers seem to be more interested in keeping their users rather than driving them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misha Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 John V, That was awesome! Especially liked the idea of selling last version of Cake As Is (perhaps with minimal compatibility fixes). Having ~200 projects in Cake I am getting a bit anxious to see how this will unfold. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSistine Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 8 hours ago, Lynn Wilson said: Perhaps you missed ripple editing, articulation maps, tempo tracks, and numerous stability fixes while it's been free Sorry, but Ripple Editing was already a part of Sonar Platinum! Though the "20 years" number is an exaggeration, I agree that most of the functionality is already present in Sonar Platinum, even in Sonar X3 there is not a lot of difference IMO! But you are correct that Articulation Maps, Tempo Track, Arranger and the new Export Window have been added to CbB. If you don't use them like me (except export window), then the difference is really feeble! But YMMV, as always! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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