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Morten Saether

[CLOSED] Cakewalk 2021.01 Early Access

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Fit Tracks and Buses to Window has no effect when there is one track and Auto Track Zoom is enabled. I guess you could argue that it's technically correct behavior, but it sure felt a bug when I kept hitting F and nothing happened. 

It's quite possible that this is not new, but I only now noticed it with the EA release.

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On 1/20/2021 at 4:37 PM, Will_Kaydo said:

Are you still sitting with the problem? 

I haven't had time to open it currently. I'm needing submixes/subprojects for a project, which is not something CbB does natively.

Edited by Bruno de Souza Lino

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Cakewalk Developers:

I was asked to test this bug fix by Support for the issue that I submitted to you guys:

Misc.

    -- Imported .wav file has clicks from time stretch

I did test, and in general, the fix does work, thank you very much,  but I found two more issues, the second one I believe is quite serious, and may have been affected by this fix.

1) On the sample I sent you guys to replicate the ACID-wave file issue, if you start that sample at measure #1, and are running WASAPI shared mode driver, you will get some noise/static at the start of playback of this sample.  Here's what I know about it:

-- Seems to only happen on WASAPI shared.  Seems to play fine on ASIO and WASAPI Exclusive.  

-- The weird thing, is that it will go away if you leave Windows Media Player open.   While it is open, no static if played.  If it is closed, then there is static if played from Measure #1.

-- There is no static if the sample is moved/dragged from starting at Sample #1 and started from another spot.

-- I don't see this issue in SoundForge 10 or Studio One 4.  But, I'm running ASIO for StudioOne4, so that is probably the reason why.

I would posture to think this is a strange interaction with Windows WASAPI Shared driver with the Audio engine of CBB.  Seems whatever resource it needs is there if Windows Media Player is open, but if it closed, I suspect CBB audio engine has to create/re-create the resource, and the time or memory in doing so, causes crackles in the audio playback if played from measure #1.

The next one is a very serious issue, at least to me:

2) Wav File and REX2 preview playback no longer work. or at least the way they did in previous versions

WAV files and REX2 playback no longer follow project tempo.  I'm not even sure what tempo they are following at all, it does not seem to follow the sample tempo either.

I did a test with Sonar X3. Both WAV and REX2 both followed project tempo.  This is very helpful of auditioning loops without having to drag them in and timestretch them.  

My guess this was broken in fixing the Acid info in header bug.

Please let me know if you need any more information or if I can help any further.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, forkol said:

2) Wav File and REX2 preview playback no longer work. or at least the way they did in previous versions

WAV files and REX2 playback no longer follow project tempo.  I'm not even sure what tempo they are following at all, it does not seem to follow the sample tempo either.

I did a test with Sonar X3. Both WAV and REX2 both followed project tempo.  This is very helpful of auditioning loops without having to drag them in and timestretch them.  

Verify "Preview At Host Tempo" is enabled in the media browser menu. "B" in the image below

Browser.03.1.png

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33 minutes ago, scook said:

Verify "Preview At Host Tempo" is enabled in the media browser menu. "B" in the image below

That does fix the issue for REX2 files and the WAV files. But...

1) The update must have had this flag cut off.  I had it on initially, and I thought that is the default. So, what is the proper default?

2) There is still an issue with the 32-bit WAV files as in the fix. They STILL do not sync to tempo even with that flag on. 

On further examination of the 32-bit files: It does seem that these 32-bit WAV files have for the Loops setting in the ACID header set to One-Shot, even though it's clearly a loop! I'd like to see a response from Cakewalk if this matters on preview, otherwise, I probably have to take this up with the sample vendor.

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I recently setup a new machine.

I have not messed with the browser menu defaults since adding the software.

X2a and X3e have "Preview At Host Tempo" enabled

SONAR 2017.10 and CbB 2021.01 have  "Preview At Host Tempo" disabled

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2 hours ago, forkol said:

Seems to only happen on WASAPI shared.  Seems to play fine on ASIO and WASAPI Exclusive.  

Why do you want to use WASAPI SHARED if it works fine on ASIO?

Secondly

2 hours ago, forkol said:

There is no static if the sample is moved/dragged from starting at Sample #1 and started from another spot.

Something I'd discovered a while back, having the same issue with samples  either clipping, or having that "static" information as you call it. 

As you've said, it also just happened on measure 1 my side. When dragged even by a "TICK Value" it would disappeared. This bothered me so much that I had to drag all my projects by a 128Step forward to prevent this from entering into the exporting stage.

Here's the thing:

Everytime you import a sample, it get's converted to the sample rate you're currently using in Cakewalk with the BPM it was rendered to. Most DAWs (good example would be FL STUDIO) allows you to stretch the BPM by a millisecond, where with cakewalk - it has a fix whole count. 

Can you zoom fully into the sample and check both the Beginning and End of the sample, to check if it doesn't overlap slightly over into the next measure - or not fully snapped to the start of the measure? This does not apply to all samples. 

So whenever you loop or the sample under this condition, it causes the clipping or a short burst of "Static" as it gets cut off suddenly during playback. 

Fix

A quick fix for me would be to "Drag the end that overlaps to be aligned with the measure OR stretch it by hitting ALT+A to open the snap panel. 

Hope this help. 

Edited by Will_Kaydo

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4 hours ago, scook said:

Verify "Preview At Host Tempo" is enabled in the media browser menu. "B" in the image below

thanks for this! I've asked a few times here on forum for that feature and nobody never pointed me to it... it's kind of hidden in a non-obvious place to look for settings :) 

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Hello everyone, i am new to this forum, i have been using cakewalk for almost one year now, but with this latest update of January 2021, i am having this problem, i dont know if someone else is having this problem. On starting cakewalk, i am seeing a start screen with no words for 2-3 seconds and then the words are appearing, this has never happened before till now with the latest update, i have given the images of the start screen 3 seconds before and 3 seconds after. Just wanted to report this.

Picture1.png

Picture2.png

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5 hours ago, forkol said:

That does fix the issue for REX2 files and the WAV files. But...

1) The update must have had this flag cut off.  I had it on initially, and I thought that is the default. So, what is the proper default?

2) There is still an issue with the 32-bit WAV files as in the fix. They STILL do not sync to tempo even with that flag on. 

On further examination of the 32-bit files: It does seem that these 32-bit WAV files have for the Loops setting in the ACID header set to One-Shot, even though it's clearly a loop! I'd like to see a response from Cakewalk if this matters on preview, otherwise, I probably have to take this up with the sample vendor.

So the fix for your original issue had nothing to do with the bit depth of the file. There was some unusual information encoded into it by the app that created the file that our code was not handling correctly. This was fixed in the Early Access build. If you have other files that are not behaving as expected, please send us other examples to test. At the moment, I just was checking through RX2 and Wave file loops that previously had shipped with SONAR Platinum/expansion packs, and these all work as expected, so if there's another corner case with the files you happen to be working with, we'd need to verify that on our end. Thanks!

The Preview at Host option is a project-specific setting. It's off by default in the "Basic" template, but if you save a project with it on, it will persist. 

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2 hours ago, chris.r said:

thanks for this! I've asked a few times here on forum for that feature and nobody never pointed me to it... it's kind of hidden in a non-obvious place to look for settings :) 

For that reason, and for faster workflow, the "Preview at host tempo" option really needs a dedicated on/off button. (I know this isn't the place for requests, sorry!)

I am very happy that 2021.01 includes a new dedicated button for "Select Track Envelopes with Clips". Really looking forward to the final release! 😄

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Problem with arranger section deletion in Ripple edit mode. When i selected section with all it deletes section and content but it moves next section without clips under section.

I deleted section 2 and section3 moved near section1 but without clips under section3 and section3 clips are under section4

arrangerttmm.thumb.jpg.6148f03066cc29f5dbca3d93c494a587.jpg

Edited by solarlux

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4 hours ago, SR@BM said:

Hello everyone, i am new to this forum, i have been using cakewalk for almost one year now, but with this latest update of January 2021, i am having this problem, i dont know if someone else is having this problem. On starting cakewalk, i am seeing a start screen with no words for 2-3 seconds and then the words are appearing, this has never happened before till now with the latest update, i have given the images of the start screen 3 seconds before and 3 seconds after. Just wanted to report this.

This happens to me ALL THE TIME and has for almost as long as the Start Screen has been a thing. I'm sorry it has started happening to you but I don't think it is related specifically to 2021.01...

CW_StartScreen_Delay.gif

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8 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

Why do you want to use WASAPI SHARED if it works fine on ASIO?

Because, when I was asked to help debug the issue that I reported, it was pointed out to me by CBB support that if you are running Windows 10, that either WASAPI shared or WASAPI Exclusive might be/are better than ASIO, since they are the new Windows 10 driver modes. Here is what the documentation says:

Quote

 

WASAPI support

SONAR provides support for WASAPI (Windows Audio Session API), which is the new standard for audio in Windows 7 and future Windows operating systems.

The primary advantages of WASAPI are:

Better compatibility with consumer audio devices:

Supports a wide variety of audio devices, including newer WaveRT devices and legacy Windows audio devices.

Lets you use consumer audio devices that don’t have ASIO drivers or drivers that don’t work well under WDM.

Provides low latency access to audio devices.

 

On my system, I need to use a shared one because I often run either Chrome Browser or LoopCloud outside of CBB and so I need shared access to audio output.

However, you are right, generally ASIO works fine, and I might go back to it if it does not exhibit any issues.  

Quote

Can you zoom fully into the sample and check both the Beginning and End of the sample, to check if it doesn't overlap slightly over into the next measure - or not fully snapped to the start of the measure? This does not apply to all samples. 

In my case, as you said, this does not apply.  It's not actually a loop, just straight sample drag-and-drop then play. Yeah, I know about zero crossing, and from what I can tell looking at the file in a wave editor, the sample is starting at zero, it still has static 1st measure.  And again, this does not seem to happen if it is running in ASIO mode.

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Awesome! This Cakewalk is becoming soooo great, really. It is waaay more stable than at his first days. I really enjoy it now. THANKS

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5 hours ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

So the fix for your original issue had nothing to do with the bit depth of the file. There was some unusual information encoded into it by the app that created the file that our code was not handling correctly. This was fixed in the Early Access build. If you have other files that are not behaving as expected, please send us other examples to test. At the moment, I just was checking through RX2 and Wave file loops that previously had shipped with SONAR Platinum/expansion packs, and these all work as expected, so if there's another corner case with the files you happen to be working with, we'd need to verify that on our end. Thanks!

The Preview at Host option is a project-specific setting. It's off by default in the "Basic" template, but if you save a project with it on, it will persist. 

Yes, to clarify: I was only saying 32-bit because all the 32-bit files that I had from that vendor had that ACIDized-wav header info. 

Also, as I mentioned to CBB support and in my reply to the testing that I did above, you guys can use the same file that I sent in the original bug report.  It exhibits the 1st measure static issue.   I can also report that other files that have this same ACIDized-wave header issue seem to have the same issue on 1st measure start.  

Edit:  Also, as I mentioned above, it appears that these types of files do not sync to project tempo, even if the "Preview at Project Tempo" is set.  I observed that this header information in the files has been set to "One-Shot", and wondered if that was the reason why they are not synching.  

Edited by forkol
Updated with Additional information

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26 minutes ago, forkol said:

Because, when I was asked to help debug the issue that I reported, it was pointed out to me by CBB support that if you are running Windows 10, that either WASAPI shared or WASAPI Exclusive might be/are better than ASIO, since they are the new Windows 10 driver modes. 

Got you! 

I've seen a lot of users complaining about both WASAPI Exclusive and Shared drivers having issues. Recalling back when I ran only ASIO4ALL and X1LE (way before I had my first Interface.) I also couldn't watch YouTube videos.

Have you tried to download your motherboards manufacturer drivers from their website? This helps with drivers issue windows can't fix. 

Upgraded my studio machine 2 since then and I only use original from the manufacturers websites for everything. 

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8 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said:

Got you! 

I've seen a lot of users complaining about both WASAPI Exclusive and Shared drivers having issues. Recalling back when I ran only ASIO4ALL and X1LE (way before I had my first Interface.) I also couldn't watch YouTube videos.

Have you tried to download your motherboards manufacturer drivers from their website? This helps with drivers issue windows can't fix. 

Upgraded my studio machine 2 since then and I only use original from the manufacturers websites for everything. 

I'm an experienced software developer with extensive background on testing methods and embedded systems development and support and I build all of my own Windows boxes from scratch.  As a matter of fact, not too long ago I upgraded my CPU, RAM and moved my system to an SSD, and of course I updated all my motherboard and other drivers at that time.  I don't use on-board audio as well. I don't say this to brag or that I don't make mistakes (because I do!), but 'checking drivers ' and such are part of the professional checklist that I run through when I am debugging a system.  It never hurts to be reminded to do that however, so I do thank you for the suggestion.

I still don't believe it's an issue with my audio driver, given what I have stated above, but I could be wrong.  I've posted info that I think the Bakers can use to look into the issues.  That's all I can do and hope for at this point in time.

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14 hours ago, forkol said:

That does fix the issue for REX2 files and the WAV files. But...

1) The update must have had this flag cut off.  I had it on initially, and I thought that is the default. So, what is the proper default?

2) There is still an issue with the 32-bit WAV files as in the fix. They STILL do not sync to tempo even with that flag on. 

On further examination of the 32-bit files: It does seem that these 32-bit WAV files have for the Loops setting in the ACID header set to One-Shot, even though it's clearly a loop! I'd like to see a response from Cakewalk if this matters on preview, otherwise, I probably have to take this up with the sample vendor.

Re 1 there are no changes in this update to change behavior. This is a per project / template setting so you must have inherited it from your project file.
As scook noted this is in the media browser settings.

Re 2. This has nothing to do with 32 bit files. If its set as a one shot it will not loop. Its an authoring problem if its intended to be a loop.

 

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