GreenLight

Thanks for clearing it up, Noel. 👍 It will hopefully ease the mind of @Sergey Levin and others.

Yes, I think it's a similar concept, judging by a quick glance. I'm not a developer though, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Cakewalk staff, please correct me if I'm wrong here: As I understand it, Cakewalk by Bandlab uses Microsoft Edge WebView2, which is technology from Edge. Short description from Microsoft: Note that Microsoft also says that the full Edge browser isn't required when using applications that use the Edge WebView2 Runtime: ...I would assume that goes for Cakewalk too? Edge (Chromium) was rolled out automatically to Windows users a year ago. I respect that not everyone wants it on their systems, but I don't find it that controversial. And in the near future I assume it'll be part of the next Windows version like Internet Explorer has been, without much controversy. But Maybe Cakewalk's reliance on the Edge WebView2 components could/should be declared more upfront when installing Cakewalk? The most important thing is that users are informed in advance.

Interesting concept! The easiest concept (and the one I'd prefer) would obviously to just include track parameter changes in the normal undo history. No check boxes to check, no undo histories to select. Ah well, I'm just beating a dead horse here... 🐴 But out of curiosity, I think I will start investigating how many other DAW's don't support undo of a simple volume change of a track.

Interesting viewpoint. I see both actions of raising a track's volume via fader (without volume envelope) or via automation as mixing - there's no difference for me. So having a separate undo history would, for me, be very confusing: "did I change the volume via automation on track X or via fader on track Y? Only one is undoable". The paradigm of "If you change it you can undo it" seems more logical to me. As it is now, if I mistakenly scroll my mouse wheel when hovering over a Vel+ or Volume parameter instead of the track name in Track View (on a track without automation) then I accidentally change stuff, and it's often hard to figure out which track it was and I can't undo it. And I probably haven't saved a mix recall in advance either... (This is not my main use case, it's just an example.) As you say, saving and restoring gain has little meaning when you have envelopes. I see the most important aspect for track parameter undo to be parameter changes on tracks without envelopes. I have a lot of envelopes and automation, but not on all my tracks. I constantly use a lot of Volume and Vel+ (MIDI) track parameters without automation. I will be humble and admit this of course my view of things. And sure, just because a couple of other DAW's do it isn't an argument for doing it for you. I just wanted to point out that I'm not alone with my view, there are some high-profile apps that share it. How about an opt-in for "Include track parameter changes in undo history"? A small checkbox in Options that harms no-one? ✔️ All the best!

Make sure you send the dump file to the Bakers, hopefully they'll figure it out! 😀 Also, it's a good habit to not apply any system or software updates during an important project or when having deadlines. I usually wait until I know I have "downtime" and have time with potential bug-hunting and/or rollbacks. Hope your rollback goes smoothly! 🍀

Hm, I'm not really following your logic there... since the envelope is the master that controls the absolute value, why would it be logical that the file is dirtied (changed) by mere playback? I am so used to the current regimen, but this arguably makes more sense. 😀

I totally agree with your arguments, @Starship Krupa. It's how it works in Ableton Live as well. Does anyone know how it is in for example Cubase or Logic?

Interesting discourse, but I'm sorry, I don't really feel that strongly about it or that it's really that connected to undoing mixing parameters...? 😊 I think of it like this: Track parameters such as Volume and Pan always have an absolute value If there's no automation, the "slider" sets the unchanging absolute value - and also represents it If there is automation, then the envelope is master - and the "slider" still represents the absolute value momentarily, always at the "now time" If there is automation and you move the slider: Without recording: there is no "real" point, as the envelope is master With recording: you record new/overwrite automation Offset mode for volume is great - although I think the offset should be visually indicated in the normal mode somehow. Offset mode for pan I never need, so I can't comment on your findings, but I do see it could be messy to understand... 🥴 The fact that deleting an envelope sets (leaves?) the parameter to what the now time happens to be on is maybe not intuitive, I guess it's just something one has to learn. But I can't see a better option either? There is no magic or "metaphysical" default value to fall back on... 😄

Agreed. In connection to this, my suggested feature "A MIDI input chord analyzer module in the Control Bar" could be tied to this default device.

I strongly agree! It is very hard to track unintentional parameter changes due to this. It's not logical that you can undo if you changed track volume via automation, but you can't undo if you just change the Volume parameter of a track (Track View / Console view does not matter). Noel said "it would be confusing", I don't agree... so maybe this could be optional? Examples from other software, like Ableton Live and Premiere Pro, is that you can undo Volume changes for tracks (without automation).

Ah, yes of course, changing parameters that are automated has special implications, and undo isn't really applicable in those cases. I am not a fan of the undo logic in Cakewalk, where you can undo if you changed track volume via automation, but you can't undo if you just change the Volume parameter of a track (Track View / Console view does not matter). Maybe this could be optional? Examples from other software, like Ableton Live and Premiere Pro, is that you can undo Volume changes for tracks (without automation). Sorry! Should we start a separate thread for this discussion, maybe? 😁 UPDATE: Let's continue this discussion in the "Undo for mixing moves, please" thread in the Feedback Loop. 😃

You can obviously make fader changes without envelopes. But if you have envelopes, undo isn't needed, I agree. Or did I misunderstand your question? 😃

I am not really sure I agree... I find it logical that a CTRL+Z undo would cover fader changes. Why would that be confusing? For example, in Adobe Premiere Pro, audio mixer changes can be undone with CTRL+Z. Also, sometimes I've moved a fader or value in the Track View accidentally with say, the mouse wheel, and I know I moved something but not what. Without undo cover, it's impossible to know what I wrecked... 🤔

So many options.... 😂 Anyway, the original "1 +2" is fine by me, but I'd like the channels of an instrument to be: Audio: "Diva 1+2 Primary Output" Midi: "Diva" I am so grateful for Cakewalk and the work that the Bakers are doing. The software is at the center of my creative life! Thank you! ❤️