I Upgraded Komplete Kontrol and Lost Many Instruments and Effects (Not a Deal, but it is a Big Deal to Me)

[Reid Rosefelt]

I don't really know if it was upgrading KK that caused this.   But everything was fine on my computer on Wednesday. On Thursday morning,  I updated a bunch of things on Native Access and decided to update Komplete Kontrol too.

And when I ran standalone, all kinds of stuff wouldn't load.  Ample Sound Erhu.  Dehumaniser Simple Monsters. Two  iZotope reverbs I've never used. 

For example, the Erhu would throw up a card and say input the serial code.   I would and it would say I'd used up all my installations.   The same thing happened in Cubase, so Cubase blacklisted it.   Oddly, Cubase didn't give me any trouble with the other Ample Sound Chinese instruments, but they also don't work.  It may have something to do with iLok, but they are all still activated in iLok. 

Whatever caused this, I'm just going to slowly work on getting my stuff back using the Customer Service of the various companies.   Some of it, like the reverbs, I don't care. 

[jesse g]

Reid,

The good thing about it is, that you can uninstall what's left of Komplete altogether and the reinstall the NI Access and reinstall it all back again. 

[abacab]

2 hours ago, Reid Rosefelt said:

I don't really know if it was upgrading KK that caused this.   But everything was fine on my computer on Wednesday. On Thursday morning,  I updated a bunch of things on Native Access and decided to update Komplete Kontrol too.

And when I ran standalone, all kinds of stuff wouldn't load.  Ample Sound Erhu.  Dehumaniser Simple Monsters. Two  iZotope reverbs I've never used. 

For example, the Erhu would throw up a card and say input the serial code.   I would and it would say I'd used up all my installations.   The same thing happened in Cubase, so Cubase blacklisted it.   Oddly, Cubase didn't give me any trouble with the other Ample Sound Chinese instruments, but they also don't work.  It may have something to do with iLok, but they are all still activated in iLok. 

Whatever caused this, I'm just going to slowly work on getting my stuff back using the Customer Service of the various companies.   Some of it, like the reverbs, I don't care. 

Just a guess here, but it sounds to me as if something other than KK or Native Access went awry if third party plugins lost their authorizations. KK always runs a plugin scan at startup in standalone mode so I assume it's just checking them.

[PavlovsCat]

That sucks, Reid. Sorry. I realize, you shared you had enough stress going on in your life right now and didn't need to deal with this too. I hope it goes easier than it appears and you're back to making music again soon. 

[TheSteven]

Hi Reid, sorry to hear that you're having issues.

Really doubt if it's NI related, sounds like you may have had one of those system updates that change your computer's hardware ID. 
Always a major pain in the rear when this happens.

Probably just a bad coincidental timing - you're running late for an appointment, your burn your toast and then the car won't start. Not the toaster's fault.  Probably not the Komplete Kontrol upgrade's fault either in this case. 

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by TheSteven

[Reid Rosefelt]

2 hours ago, TheSteven said:

Hi Reid, sorry to hear that you're having issues.

Really doubt if it's NI related, sounds like you may have had one of those system updates that change your computer's hardware ID. 
Always a major pain in the rear when this happens.

Probably just a bad coincidental timing - you're running late for an appointment, your burn your toast and then the car won't start. Not the toaster's fault.  Probably not the Komplete Kontrol upgrade's fault either in this case. 

 

Yeah, that  makes sense.  Nobody else had a problem with the update.  

[lawajava]

2 hours ago, TheSteven said:

Hi Reid, sorry to hear that you're having issues.

Really doubt if it's NI related, sounds like you may have had one of those system updates that change your computer's hardware ID. 
Always a major pain in the rear when this happens.

Probably just a bad coincidental timing - you're running late for an appointment, your burn your toast and then the car won't start. Not the toaster's fault.  Probably not the Komplete Kontrol upgrade's fault either in this case. 

 

Sounds like that to me as well.  I moved to having a USB dongle - several companies take advantage of that - including Waves, Overloud and Black Rooster.  I already have an iLok dongle. In any case, this was prompted (and was the remedy for)  an experience similar to yours.

[Reid Rosefelt]

Through the iLok software, I requested a system reset from all my licenses.   All the companies but one responded quickly and it was very easy to reactivate everything.

The company that didn't was iZotope as they no longer support their Exponential Audio reverbs.  Their position seems to be is that those reverbs will still work as long as you don't change your computer, or have an iLok.   When I had this problem essentially all my iLok companies thought I had changed computers. 

In order not to have the EA reverbs trip up loading KK or Cubase, I deleted them.

I've ordered an iLok and it should come soon.

I had a problem with Neutron before that it stopped working.  It was too bad, because  I loved Neutron.  I loved it so much that I used it on every track in projects, which were then effectively unmixed when I went back to them.

I'm not putting any more iZotope plugins into my tracks.  I still will use RX7 and Ozone.

Anyway, a lot of my iZotope stuff were purchased years ago for $99 or more and then turned up for $9.99.  Easy come, easy go.

 

[abacab]

1 hour ago, Reid Rosefelt said:

The company that didn't was iZotope as they no longer support their Exponential Audio reverbs.  Their position seems to be is that those reverbs will still work as long as you don't change your computer, or have an iLok.

Well that's certainly a disturbing development regarding Exponential! 🤔

I have a number of their reverbs  with licenses in my iLok account that were purchased through iZotope. Which now makes it an easy task to cull them from my growing plugin collection. No room for unsupported plugins here!

Edited December 16, 2022 by abacab

[abacab]

1 hour ago, Reid Rosefelt said:

When I had this problem essentially all my iLok companies thought I had changed computers. 

That can happen with some Windows version upgrades, as well as if certain hardware components are changed in the PC, giving it a new "fingerprint" not associated with that existing computer ID.

[MusicMan]

1 hour ago, abacab said:

That can happen with some Windows version upgrades, as well as if certain hardware components are changed in the PC, giving it a new "fingerprint" not associated with that existing computer ID.

That is definitely one of the challenges with quite a few licensing and software protections they use these days and why so many people opt for only using serial/keyfile/offline or unlimited licenses.

I'd love to be able to do that personally and support as many developers as possible that offer them, but there's just so many plugins and instruments I'd miss out on that I really like.

But for iZotope to not support reactivation when they were still selling them up until very recently, I definitely wouldn't accept that.

Even more so how expensive those Exponential Reverbs "RRP" price were. It's probably one of those times where their overinflated RRP prices would work against them, as there would be more obligation to support them for longer in that way under some countries consumer laws.

If these companies want more elaborate protection from piracy that's fine, but the genuine consumer who paid for the software should never be impacted by it locking them out.

Systems will be updated, hardware components will fail and need to be replaced. Developers need to accommodate that in my opinion.

Hope you get it all sorted out and it's not too painful in the end Reid 🙂

Edited December 17, 2022 by MusicMan

[Patrick Derbidge]

Warning! My comment is known to derail the conversation and drag it down the rabbit hole, but I can't help it. This is the exact reason I am not a fan of copy protection. I could argue til the end of time about piracy and how much copy protection doesn't actually help fight it, but there is no denying that the paying customer bears the brunt of it in the end. I would bet that none of your freeware has this issue. Unfortunately, I have ALL the copy protection methods from iLok dongles to Waves to whatever system of imprint on your hardware and software is used by other developers. I think it's silly to argue dongles vs other systems of protection because they all have the ability to bring your projects to a halt until you get them resolved. In some ways, the dongles actually work better contrary to popular opinion, but frankly they all suck.  I dread the day I have to do another upgrade to my system.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Patrick Derbidge

[abacab]

Bottom line is that if you are doing any serious work, it's probably best to export your audio stems (and bounce or print the final mix to to stereo audio) so there are no remaining dependencies on plugins. You can always take your audio stems and work with any currently available DAWs/plugins later if you wish to revisit your work, or collaborate with others.

Some interesting tips here:

https://splice.com/blog/exporting-stems-collaboration-splice/

https://www.sonarworks.com/blog/learn/should-you-bounce-or-print-your-mixes

Edited December 17, 2022 by abacab

[MusicMan]

19 minutes ago, Patrick Derbidge said:

Warning! My comment is known to derail the conversation and drag it down the rabbit hole, but I can't help it. This is the exact reason I am not a fan of copy protection. I could argue til the end of time about piracy and how much copy protection doesn't actually help fight it, but there is no denying that the paying customer bears the brunt of it in the end. I would bet that none of your freeware has this issue. Unfortunately, I have ALL the copy protection methods from iLok dongles to Waves to whatever system of imprint on your hardware and software is used by other developers. I think it's silly to argue dongles vs other systems of protection because they all have the ability to bring your projects to a halt until you get them resolved. In some ways, the dongles actually work better contrary to popular opinion, but frankly they all suck.  I dread the day I have to do another upgrade to my system.

Pretty hard to argue for their effectiveness. Almost all the major copy protection schemes have been cracked...

And yes, us that pay wear the brunt and jump through hoops while the ones that use pirated copies have it easy and don't have to worry about any of those concerns and challenges.

[MusicMan]

2 minutes ago, abacab said:

Bottom line is that if you are doing any serious work, it's probably best to export your audio stems (and bounce the final mix to to stereo audio) so there are no remaining dependencies on plugins. You can always take your audio stems and work with any currently available DAWs/plugins later if you wish to revisit your work, or collaborate with others.

Some interesting tips here: https://splice.com/blog/exporting-stems-collaboration-splice/

Definitely great advice, but that's often mainly when completing tracks. Sometimes I'm just sketching some ideas out, or saving a cool baseline, or lead riff with the intent of getting back to it down the track.

Some good concepts in that article and I've started trying to bounce, render in place, or export stems. It has been getting easier with some of the updates with many of the DAWs now.

[abacab]

9 minutes ago, MusicMan said:

Definitely great advice, but that's often mainly when completing tracks. Sometimes I'm just sketching some ideas out, or saving a cool baseline, or lead riff with the intent of getting back to it down the track.

Yep, that's where I will get burned. Have saved many snippets of noodling over the years as projects that I intended to get back to eventually ... 🙄

When Cakewalk was shutdown a few years ago I dreaded having to convert all those .cwp projects to Studio One or Reaper. Thank you BandLab!!!

Edited December 17, 2022 by abacab

[Reid Rosefelt]

2 hours ago, MusicMan said:

Hope you get it all sorted out and it's not too painful in the end Reid 🙂

I'm fine.  Those two reverbs were nice, but I have way too many reverbs already.  It caused me no pain to delete them.   

But I've lost all respect for iZotope and they'll never get it back from me. 

[abacab]

28 minutes ago, Reid Rosefelt said:

But I've lost all respect for iZotope and they'll never get it back from me.

iZotope = NI = Plugin Alliance... 🙄

[Zo]

I was about to say hardware is safe ...but it needs something we might aceess with conditions lol : energy ...

[TheSteven]

6 hours ago, Patrick Derbidge said:

Warning! My comment is known to derail the conversation and drag it down the rabbit hole, but I can't help it. This is the exact reason I am not a fan of copy protection. I could argue til the end of time about piracy and how much copy protection doesn't actually help fight it, but there is no denying that the paying customer bears the brunt of it in the end. I would bet that none of your freeware has this issue. Unfortunately, I have ALL the copy protection methods from iLok dongles to Waves to whatever system of imprint on your hardware and software is used by other developers. I think it's silly to argue dongles vs other systems of protection because they all have the ability to bring your projects to a halt until you get them resolved. In some ways, the dongles actually work better contrary to popular opinion, but frankly they all suck.  I dread the day I have to do another upgrade to my system.

As they say YMMV

A different way of looking at it is that an iLok dongle is activation protection - activate a plugin on the dongle once and rarely if ever will you have to activate it again.

Yeah dongles can fail but what piece of a computer can't? 

Edited December 17, 2022 by TheSteven