Not Liking the look of the New Sonar Interface

[David Baay]

9 minutes ago, John T said:

If I have one general objection to the new look, it's that things like that button should be more obviously "lit" or "not lit".

In this particular case, I think all the FX going gray in the bin kind of gives it away.

But I just realized that Mercury doesn't apply the track strip color to the header of the FX bin as Tungsten does; it remains the default black. Not sure to what extent one or the other was intended, but I prefer Mercury's treatment.

[John T]

1 hour ago, David Baay said:

In this particular case, I think all the FX going gray in the bin kind of gives it away.

I disagree a bit. When I say "at a glance" I'm not talking about being "able to tell what's on and what's off", I'm talking about it being glaringly and immediately obvious what's on and what's off. I'm on about something that's basically impossible to over-do.

[Red Four]

7 hours ago, slenderhead said:

Might be just me, but does the On/Off button for FX bin on Track 1 inspector look lighter than Master channel despite both being ON?

It has a green track colour applied yes, but that makes the button, when ON lighter in colour than the Master.

I thought it was OFF

I agree with you. I think this has less to do with the background color than the on/off icon simply being too thin. It stands out more in CbB, which means it does its job better.

[slenderhead]

Yes completely. Just needs to be distinct.

but these are minor things. And as people have said hopefully fixable.

Tbf, am really really loving the new program now, more and more every time I use it. 
thread should be retitled ‘little quibbles’ to be more positive!

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

On 3/11/2024 at 7:34 PM, Hillmy said:

Tungsten. CbB:

Tungsten Sonar:

CbB:

Sonar:

CbB is more well defined and different color shades show more details and make things very clear at first glance. I don't mean blurry. I just mean that it is more clear in CbB to figure out everything at first glance. You can even tell the boundary boxes in console and inspector view. Nothing seems flat and you can tell when one section or box starts and ends. In Sonar the Sends don't even look like a box, just a flat plane. Also buttons don't look like obvious buttons. 

I'm sure Sonar can look like CbB with a little more work and I am sure vector graphics are not a limitation. If there is a way I could make it look like CbB myself I would but I am not sure if the option is even there. 

Looking at those two side by side, I find the whole argument of using vector graphics for scalability doesn't hold much water when the interface has to be 15% larger just for them to be implemented. There's no point in having scalable vectors if you're loosing screen real estate. Not everyone is willing to or can afford to use 4k panels. And that loss of screen real estate is gonna be worse on panels with less than 1080p resolution.

That always helps shape the image that the only purpose of vector graphics is catering for 4k displays instead of every display. There also seems to be an apparent loss of contrast between CbB and Sonar Themes and that could be not a welcome change for visually impaired people.

Edited March 19 by Bruno de Souza Lino

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

On 3/12/2024 at 12:16 AM, Morten Saether said:

Thanks for clarifying. The goal is not for Sonar to look just like CbB

I think what many are complaining about is that it's harder to use. Less clear,  not as sharp , more washed out, less contrast with strange icon / button choices. 

I understand that under the hood there are big benefits but we still have to use it and it still looks like a visual downgrade from  the free product for many users. 

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

On 3/15/2024 at 2:58 PM, msmcleod said:

@norfolkmastering / @Sal Sorice / @Heinz Hupfer 

1. We'll be including a "Tungsten Classic" theme that more closely matches the colours of CbB, and certainly to my eyes has a more preferable contrast to the new Tungsten.

Can you please do the same for Mercury too. 

[msmcleod]

Just now, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

Can you please do the same for Mercury too. 

It's in the oven....

[John Faughey]

3 hours ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

I think what many are complaining about is that it's harder to use. Less clear,  not as sharp , more washed out, less contrast with strange icon / button choices. 

I understand that under the hood there are big benefits but we still have to use it and it still looks like a visual downgrade from  the free product for many users. 

you are correct sir! i am all about whats under the hood, but when i have to spend a 10 hour plus session recording a band i would like to have something better to look at.  i know it sounds stupid since its supposed to be about making music...but i do see it as a downgrade as well. 

[John Faughey]

3 hours ago, msmcleod said:

It's in the oven....

that is fantastic news!!! take my money now!

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

28 minutes ago, John Faughey said:

you are correct sir! i am all about whats under the hood, but when i have to spend a 10 hour plus session recording a band i would like to have something better to look at.  i know it sounds stupid since its supposed to be about making music...but i do see it as a downgrade as well. 

From reading through all the posts the people with 4k monitors seem happier than those without. I am very happy to hear about the Classic Themes though. 

[sjoens]

Unfortunately.  I have a 4K but it's too small for DAW use at those res's.  At standard res's, new Sonar is somewhat less readable than CbB for more than one reason.  Properly scalable vector based UI's should be crisp at all res's.  My main DAW screen is 2K so it's somewhat of an issue.

[John T]

1 hour ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

From reading through all the posts the people with 4k monitors seem happier than those without.

I don't have 4k, but I think the new look at 100% scaling is generally sharp and readable for me. I've not done any precise comparisons, but subjectively, I find it mostly clearer to look at than CbB.

Seems like there are a range of user experiences going on. So I'm guessing some of this is just gremlins to work out with the new tech.

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

15 hours ago, John T said:

I don't have 4k, but I think the new look at 100% scaling is generally sharp and readable for me. I've not done any precise comparisons, but subjectively, I find it mostly clearer to look at than CbB.

Seems like there are a range of user experiences going on. So I'm guessing some of this is just gremlins to work out with the new tech.

Interesting. I have 2 identical 24" Dell screens so I've had it side by side and CbB is definitely easier on the eyes. Cripser, more contrast - better demarcation between items.  Whether that's just design choices or other more technical reasons I don't know. I just call it as I see it. 

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

19 hours ago, sjoens said:

Unfortunately.  I have a 4K but it's too small for DAW use at those res's.  At standard res's, new Sonar is somewhat less readable than CbB for more than one reason.  Properly scalable vector based UI's should be crisp at all res's.  My main DAW screen is 2K so it's somewhat of an issue.

Not only they should be crisp at all res, but also scalable at all res as well. As soon as you see someone moving for a format suitable for 4k panels, you seem to always lose the ability to either scale lower than 100% or you lose screen space because, as I mentioned before, the vector UI seems to be a change made for 4k users by 4k users with little to no consideration for other screen resolutions.

And while you can technically use resolution scaling to put your monitor at 4k then scale it down to native res, you're gonna have worse results if you already start with poor readability. And to say this is not people nitpicking on changes because of preference, the UI changes implemented in Cubase 13 were similar to the Sonar ones and a lot of people complained about poor contrast and also citing visual impairments which made the interface hard to read.

Though my main personal nitpick with the change to the vector UI is the 15% size increase. How is it not possible to maintain the exact same interface size from before when you have freely scalable graphics. And let's consider that CbB already had quite a bit of screen space lost to dock borders and such.

[John T]

45 minutes ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

Though my main personal nitpick with the change to the vector UI is the 15% size increase. How is it not possible to maintain the exact same interface size from before when you have freely scalable graphics.

I'm not seeing that. I've done a comparison with both apps running, and everything is almost exactly the same size.

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

2 hours ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

Though my main personal nitpick with the change to the vector UI is the 15% size increase. How is it not possible to maintain the exact same interface size from before when you have freely scalable graphics. And let's consider that CbB already had quite a bit of screen space lost to dock borders and such.

I had the same complaint when we moved from Sonar 8.5 to X1  - I don't recall the % change but less track and few mixer channels fitted on the screen.  

[Sal Sorice]

I noticed that the ProChannel strip overlaps the track strip, and there is also no visual separation between them.

As you can tell by my example I am no graphic artist, but hopefully it gets the idea across... 🤪

 

[Misha]

I like clean + sharp looks of new UI, great job! 

Couple of items that I've noticed (perhaps user error)

1) Strips for arranger, video tracks... I know you can minimize them, but I don't see a way to get rid of them completely. Personally, I have no use for them and I wish you could simply make these go away.

2)My display scaling recommended value is 200%  (3070x1440 native). Tools are blurry at that scale, while everything else is sharp. If I switch scale to 100%, they are sharp, but  Sonar is so tiny that I can't make out text.

3) Under View>Display there is an option to disable "Display  Muted  takes in Parent Track".... I wish there would be an option to NOT display muted take lanes all together. Simple scenario: You have 30 take lanes, 5 of which you will use, others just keep for backup or future re-mix. Simply hiding muted take tracks would make UI so much cleaner.

[David Baay]

6 hours ago, Misha said:

3070x1440 native

Imperfect 17.06:8 aspect ratio? Seems unlikely. I'm thinking maybe you confused the width with a 3070 RTX model number...? A more conventional 16:9 aspect ratio would be 2560 x 1440. If it's really 3070, I wouldn't be surprised that you might encounter scaling issues.