Kirchhoff-EQ, Better than FabFilter Pro-Q 3

[jesse g]

For all of you who ran out an purchased the FabFilter Pro-Q 3 EQ and overlooked the Kirchhoff-EQ,... tsk, tsk,tsk.   Get it the next time it's on sale!!!   PA Kirchhoff-EQ

    

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by jesse g

[PavlovsCat]

There has long been a lot of positive buzz around the Kirchhoff EQ. Eventually,  I'm going to pick it up (I'm still a total novice with this stuff, despite making multitrack demos for decades and recording in pro studios as a drummer).

Although, while I've heard friends who really know audio talk about Kirchhoff EQ, they've only said they'd heard really positive things about it, none of them actually own it / use it. My two audio expert friends I regularly turn to for advice both use and love the FabFilter stuff.  I'd be interested in hearing from forum members who own and use Kirchhoff EQ, or who, at least,  have demoed it. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by PavlovsCat

[Brian Walton]

1 hour ago, PavlovsCat said:

There has long been a lot of positive buzz around the Kirchhoff EQ. Eventually,  I'm going to pick it up (I'm still a total novice with this stuff, despite making multitrack demos for decades and recording in pro studios as a drummer).

Although, while I've heard friends who really know audio talk about Kirchhoff EQ, they've only said they'd heard really positive things about it, none of them actually own it / use it. My two audio expert friends I regularly turn to for advice both use and love the FabFilter stuff.  I'd be interested in hearing from forum members who own and use Kirchhoff EQ, or who, at least,  have demoed it. 

Ive owned it since the day of PA release.  Best sounding in the box EQ I've heard.

Negative from me is I think ToneboosterEQ4 looks better.  I don't like how small everything is on the Kirchoff.

The deep feature set and good sound is why people rave about it.

If you own Fabfilter no need to buy it.  If you are looking at Fab, then it is worth checking out as an alternative to see which suits you better.

I'd pick Fab for the interface but it also never will be as cheap as the PA EQ is going to get.  I subscribed to forever 29 to get it.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Brian Walton

[PavlovsCat]

21 minutes ago, Brian Walton said:

Ive owned it since the day of PA release.  Best sounding in the box EQ I've heard.

Negative from me is I think ToneboosterEQ4 looks better.  I don't like how small everything is on the Kirchoff.

The deep feature set and good sound is why people rave about it.

If you own Fabfilter no need to buy it.  If you are looking at Fab, then it is worth checking out as an alternative to see which suits you better.

I'd pick Fab for the interface but it also never will be as cheap as the PA EQ is going to get.  I subscribed to forever 29 to get it.

Thanks for posting that, Brian! No, I don't have FabFilter. Their stuff is beyond my meager budget. I was hoping to pick up the Kirchhoff EQ next time someone shares a $75 code and its on sale (I've been trying to catch one, but I'm always too late!). 

[jesse g]

I like the fact that it has an expandable Dynamic EQ section as well as Multi Shape section.

[Marc Cormier]

49 minutes ago, Brian Walton said:

Negative from me is I think ToneboosterEQ4 looks better.  I don't like how small everything is on the Kirchoff.

Tonebooster EQ4 has some pretty impressive features, too.  All right around our sweet spot of 29 buckaroos.  I have a bunch of their plugins and both this and the reverb are excellent.  Great value, the lot.

https://www.toneboosters.com/tb_equalizer_v4.html

Edited July 7, 2023 by Marc Cormier

[Fleer]

Pro-Q4

[jesse g]

11 minutes ago, Fleer said:

Pro-Q4

I just went to the Fabfilter website and Pro-Q4 isn't out as of yet,  😬

[Brian Walton]

21 minutes ago, Marc Cormier said:

Tonebooster EQ4 has some pretty impressive features, too.  All right around our sweet spot of 29 buckaroos.  I have a bunch of their plugins and both this and the reverb are excellent.  Great value, the lot.

https://www.toneboosters.com/tb_equalizer_v4.html

Yep, I was using it as a primary go to above many others as the features, interface and license are great.  But after I did an a/b of the sound when pushing filters a bit it was hard not to want to use the Kirchoff instead.

I don't even care that much about the crazy settings it can do.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Brian Walton

[PavlovsCat]

26 minutes ago, Marc Cormier said:

Tonebooster EQ4 has some pretty impressive features, too.  All right around our sweet spot of 29 buckaroos.  I have a bunch of their plugins and both this and the reverb are excellent.  Great value, the lot.

https://www.toneboosters.com/tb_equalizer_v4.html

I have only seen some YouTubers talk about Tonebooster and here in the forum, opinions on the developer seem to be less than enthusiastic. But for 29 bucks, that's pretty intriguing. I don't know enough about EQs to assess this stuff myself, so I rely on those with expertise and would love to see people more knowledgeable on mixing and mastering weigh in on this one, because it's so affordable, it is, of course, something I can easily pick up IF it's really good. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by PavlovsCat

[ralfrobert]

1 minute ago, PavlovsCat said:

I have only seen some YouTubers talk about Tonebooster and here in the forum, opinions on the developer seem to be less than enthusiastic. But for 29 bucks, that's pretty intriguing. I don't know enough to assess these stuff, so I'd love to see people weigh in on this one, because it's so affordable, it is, of course, something I can easily pick up IF it's really good. 

The legacy plugins are free now. A bit old fashioned, but still excellent DSP. Get them here:

https://www.toneboosters.com/support.html

[chris.r]

It's like comparing Ferrari and Lamborghini! Both are supercars, it's just a matter of taste and the spec. Eventually one of them we'll get for a price of a regular car (which wouldn't happen with them cars anyway) so I'm getting it that way. I unsub'd from forever29 so I'll probably have to buy this or the $75 voucher on the aftermarket and be done with it.

[Brian Walton]

17 minutes ago, PavlovsCat said:

I have only seen some YouTubers talk about Tonebooster and here in the forum, opinions on the developer seem to be less than enthusiastic. But for 29 bucks, that's pretty intriguing. I don't know enough about EQs to assess this stuff myself, so I rely on those with expertise and would love to see people more knowledgeable on mixing and mastering weigh in on this one, because it's so affordable, it is, of course, something I can easily pick up IF it's really good. 

I've always thought he was well regarded.

He is pretty much genius level. 

Never had to use support.  His limiter was top tier for years at the price point.  

The EQ4 has an unending demo period download it and see what you think.  It simply has a pop up everytime you run it that says demo.  No white noise or silence...who else does that other than Reaper?

Edited July 7, 2023 by Brian Walton

[PavlovsCat]

1 minute ago, Brian Walton said:

I've always thought he was well regarded.

He is pretty much genius level. 

Never had to use support.  His limiter was top tier for years at the price point.  

The EQ4 has an unending demo period download it and see what you think.  It simply has a pop up everytime you run it that says demo.  No white noise or silence...who else does that other than Reaper?

Funny, I was certain that I owned a plugin from Toneboosters that I got from some freebie deal, but I didn't have a saved login at the site, so I searched my emails and found a developer friend --- a very well respected developer -- telling me in 2011 that he just picked up a plugin from Toneboosters that he loved. I completely forgot about that. So apparently, I do know someone who uses their stuff and has said nice things about it. I need to check in with him. But I absolutely will check out the demo. I just don't trust that I have the knowledge to assess it compared to other alternatives to know how well it stacks up, so I rely on audio expert friends and folks here to weigh in before making a purchase.  But absolutely, demos are a step I pretty much always go through before a purchase and I really like that Toneboosters has an unending demo period. Again, 29 bucks to get an EQ that is really high quality -- and no Update Plan -- sounds great to me.  

[Brian Walton]

5 hours ago, PavlovsCat said:

Funny, I was certain that I owned a plugin from Toneboosters that I got from some freebie deal, but I didn't have a saved login at the site, so I searched my emails and found a developer friend --- a very well respected developer -- telling me in 2011 that he just picked up a plugin from Toneboosters that he loved. I completely forgot about that. So apparently, I do know someone who uses their stuff and has said nice things about it. I need to check in with him. But I absolutely will check out the demo. I just don't trust that I have the knowledge to assess it compared to other alternatives to know how well it stacks up, so I rely on audio expert friends and folks here to weigh in before making a purchase.  But absolutely, demos are a step I pretty much always go through before a purchase and I really like that Toneboosters has an unending demo period. Again, 29 bucks to get an EQ that is really high quality -- and no Update Plan -- sounds great to me.  

It is good to have some experienced opinions weigh in, but I will say there is a pretty slippery slope with this kind of thing as it relates to your own spending and needs.

There are plenty of EQs on the market that a far more powerful in terms of tonal shaping and features than what most of the "classic" albums were recorded with.  Tools at this level as so far beyond adequate or good enough if one has the skills of a more experienced engineer.  We get into a trap of thinking the tool is our limitation when the reality is that isn't the case once you have a few good tools.  More often than not the things that actually matter on this tier is the workflow and ease of use to get the results you want.  

Blindly listening back to a mix I did, I wouldn't be able to tell which EQ I used a year down the road, and another more experienced engineer isn't going to know either.  

When I say the Kirchhoff sounds better than some alternatives, it has more to do with pushing bands pretty far (farther adjustments than most should be doing on a source)  and things still sounding natural.  If someone properly recorded a source the engineer shouldn't be making 20db boosts to the top end, etc.

Did you grab the currently free Melda Dynamic EQ that is currently free (normally $75).  That thing is in this same playing field.  And free updates for life and unlimited computer installs (for machines you own).  I don't like having to double click to create a node but the feature set and quality is also crazy.

 

 

 

Also the little areas button gives you options (here it is selected for vocals which gives you some visual reference on frequencies that can relate to the way we interpret some sound on a source.  This is super helpful, IMO as you take mixing to the next level).  And they have built in things for multiple instruments, etc.

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by Brian Walton

[PavlovsCat]

I actually had the Melda Dynamic EQ before the freebie,  but I've never used it. I will check it out. I know Starship Krupa,  who's given me mixing advice from time to time, has strongly recommended the Melda stuff. 

[Brian Walton]

10 minutes ago, PavlovsCat said:

I actually had the Melda Dynamic EQ before the freebie,  but I've never used it. I will check it out. I know Starship Krupa,  who's given me mixing advice from time to time, has strongly recommended the Melda stuff. 

Anyone saying they need something more powerful than that thing is kidding themselves.   It is really just a question of the interface and how to get to and interact with the features.  I prefer to click and drag to activate a band, but melda defaults to double click to activate it.   (so  I tend to create a preset where bands are already active so I can work the way I like.   If the workflow works for you it is on the same playing field as the other big hitters in dynamicEQs.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Brian Walton

[PavlovsCat]

9 minutes ago, Brian Walton said:

Anyone saying they need something more powerful than that thing is kidding themselves.   It is really just a question of the interface and how to get to and interact with the features.  I prefer to click and drag to activate a band, but melda defaults to double click to activate it.   (so  I tend to create a preset where bands are already active so I can work the way I like.   If the workflow works for you it is on the same playing field as the other big hitters in dynamicEQs.

Thanks for the advice, Brian. It was very considerate of you to explain that and I appreciate it. 

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

So far, one of the so-called features of Kirchhoff's is the 117 bit mode, which shows differences when matched against Pro-Q in a null test. Only problem is those differences are at -300 dB, which is way below than the noise floor of almost every single DAC and FPGA used in audio converters currently in the market. And sure, people claim to hear that difference clear as a bell. Not sure how dead people can hear differences...

[dubdisciple]

I think where fabfilter and kirchoff shine more over melda is the more intuitive GUI. Other than that, I can't think of anything I do EQ wise that I can't do with Melda.