Keni Posted April 15, 2023 Share Posted April 15, 2023 Hi Gang... I will apologize first for my rant tho I will do my best to contain my anger and frustration... WAVES! Yeah, we've all heard about their sudden policy changes and alterations to previous sales terms etc.... I got another... They just miffed me big time (careful use of words here) A few of their plugins got messed up on my old machine (windows8.1) during the debacle. I'm building my new DAW and transferring licenses etc. After atlking with their tech support a week or so back They re-confirmed my permission to have two copies installed as long as not used simultaneously. So I began the process and all is well on the new machine. Everything is installed and working. When I open Waves central I can see the dual activations for all but 2 plugins. My 2 most important. So I went to the old DAW and needed to run Waves Central which of cou rse proceeded to update itself to a program where they don't support it's operation (requires win10 or above) and it disabled my old DAW activations! Now they are willing to allow me dual activations with one being available on the old machine by using a usb stick but I don't have the available port! Not that can be left in the machine. Because this process will require the mem stick in whichever machine I'm suing at the time. Both machines have only 1 port left. So now I must buy a spare usb usb stick to dedicate to this purpose, and a pair of usb splitters (one for each machine) to get my old plugins running agin on the old machine where they were working just fine until Waves decided to change things... I'm so screaming mad! I guess part of the reason is my frustrations with Apple's unbelievably poor decisions in the design of the Mac Trashcan.... I've been trying to solve the hard drive dilemma for weeks now and I'm close. It's working pretty well, but When I try taxing streams from one usb3 external drive with Superior Drummer Samples on another USB external, things start getting shaky... I found if I move the audio to the system drive it "seems" to behave better? What a pain So many hard drive related problems with the trashcan! but I digress... This is about waves! I really enjoy both the Abbey Road Studio 3 plugin and the Puigchild plugin... I use them both all the time... ...but is it worth the shenanigans that the company continues to roll out in their fear of theft attitude? We all worry about being robbed but there's a point beyond which the protection becomes unrealistic... Like posting armed guards to protect a bubble gum jar??? I know I'm not the first but their' stance on upholding previous deals is over the top! Everyone else seems to be fine with simple native methods or even iLok, but Waves (and Steinberg) have the most invasive, complex, and insulting systems to "allow" users to buy and use their' products... I could buy a Tesla easier! (if I had the money) OK... I'll stop... I just went through some kind of eye-piercing pain during the typing of this... I may be giving myself a hemorrhage, so I'd better stop... Again... I apologize... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wibbles Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 I had a brief but unpleasant encounter with Waves Central a few years back. Never again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno de Souza Lino Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 Despite owning a few Waves plugins myself, I'll probably never use them because they're spread across different versions and installing those is a hassle and a half, as you have to download all plugins from that version (each being several Gigabytes in size) even if you're gonna use one or two of them. Waves only gives you the option of picking and choosing individual plugins if you have the latest versions of those plugins...Which are exactly the same as the old ones except for a version increase. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keni Posted April 16, 2023 Author Share Posted April 16, 2023 11 hours ago, Wibbles said: I had a brief but unpleasant encounter with Waves Central a few years back. Never again. Totally understandable... I've had so many issues over the years that with these latest, I doubt I will be buying more, but I do want/need my purchases to continue to work. At the moment I'm trying to let go of their operation on my old DAW though I'm less than thrilled with the hard drive situation on the mac trashcan, but I guess there never really is any going back... <sigh> ...ranking right up there with Adobe. A company who makes great products but horrible business model (for most users). I'm still using Photoshop 7 because it's LOCAL!! ...but I won't dribble on about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitflipper Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 Someday business schools will use Waves as a case study on how destroy your company by disrespecting your customers. Once upon a time, Waves was the undisputed king of the hill due to having highly respected, quality products. Waves was so well-regarded back when I turned away from them that at the time I was actually accused of antisemitism (no kidding, right here on this forum) for deciding to abandon them. Others assumed I was a software pirate frustrated that I couldn't crack their copy protection. Anyone who knows me knows how ridiculous either accusation is. So yeh, I admit I'm enjoying a bit of Schadenfreude these days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 I have mostly avoided them over the years because I didn''t like their licensing and maintenance model. I had a huge multi-hour battle getting one suddenly and inexplicibly failing plugin re-activated a few months back and decided then that I will no longer buy anything new or renew anything from them after this year. This decision was only reinforced by the recent anouncement that no new licences will be perpetual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 5 hours ago, bitflipper said: Others assumed I was a software pirate frustrated that I couldn't crack their copy protection. Anyone who knows me knows how ridiculous either accusation is. Because we all know you could have easily cracked their copy protection if you had wanted to! 😁 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keni Posted April 16, 2023 Author Share Posted April 16, 2023 6 hours ago, bitflipper said: Someday business schools will use Waves as a case study on how destroy your company by disrespecting your customers. Once upon a time, Waves was the undisputed king of the hill due to having highly respected, quality products. Waves was so well-regarded back when I turned away from them that at the time I was actually accused of antisemitism (no kidding, right here on this forum) for deciding to abandon them. Others assumed I was a software pirate frustrated that I couldn't crack their copy protection. Anyone who knows me knows how ridiculous either accusation is. So yeh, I admit I'm enjoying a bit of Schadenfreude these days. Yeah... you’re stronger than I... in earlier times I avoided all such companies who placed so much security as to make me feel wronged. But as so many followed suit, I yielded to iLok. Lucky for me (us) is that it’s finally evolved to be relatively unobtrusive and easy to work with. A single dongle (or software only for many) handles countless companies and plugins. Well, it does have a limit. Some companies such as Steinberg have more screens and simultaneous operations being authorized on multiple machines drove me crazy and I dropped them too. Too oppressive for me. OK, but all these things happen at the time of purchase/install. Waves has altered deals already established! Much as if the grocery store suddenly shows up at your door deciding they raised the cost of the food you ate last week and are here to collect! Nasty! My immediate issue may be ok (for me) if I can live with my lovely new machine's hard drive limitations for who knows how many years vs. return of old win8.1 machine which has how much life remaining? ...and they have given me a potential path to get them operational there once again with increased cost and issues and repurpose the new machine to gfx only. That would be sad. If only Lord Apple hadn’t decided the Trashcan should be forced to live with only a single "performance" hard drive! <sigh> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keni Posted April 16, 2023 Author Share Posted April 16, 2023 5 hours ago, David Baay said: I have mostly avoided them over the years because I didn''t like their licensing and maintenance model. I had a huge multi-hour battle getting one suddenly and inexplicibly failing plugin re-activated a few months back and decided then that I will no longer buy anything new or renew anything from them after this year. This decision was only reinforced by the recent anouncement that no new licences will be perpetual. Yup... They’ve burnt me for the last time too. They would have to make some major business model changes to get me to trust them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheens Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Vogel Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 I have the whole lot (not the very specialised ones for broadcast applications ) and really cracked it with their recent announcement. Fortunately reason prevailed after a user base revolt and they’ve recanted there earlier decision to go subs only and now offer it as an option. I only do a WUP about every 2 to 3 years and find it’s been pretty good value when compared to other brand offerings. To be honest I’ve never had any serious issues and the few minor ones I have had , were dealt with promptly. Always found their customer support to be excellent. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Vogel Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/17/2023 at 6:24 AM, Keni said: Yup... They’ve burnt me for the last time too. They would have to make some major business model changes to get me to trust them again. They’ve gone back to the old model and added subs as an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keni Posted April 18, 2023 Author Share Posted April 18, 2023 3 hours ago, Michael Vogel said: They’ve gone back to the old model and added subs as an option. Try talking with them. They are rude, obstinate and cold. I’ve had better relationships with other companies... They had to be "forced" into doing this and the rules/methods of their operation are lacking in humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheens Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Keni said: Try talking with them. They are rude, obstinate and cold. I’ve had better relationships with other companies... They had to be "forced" into doing this and the rules/methods of their operation are lacking in humanity. By rude, cold and lacking humanity they adopted well to 2023 business/management standards. Between you and me-> world is going down for at least 1 generation. Edited April 18, 2023 by Sheens 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 I heard about the below cycle theory and it appears to be pretty accurate. Not hard to tell where we are in the cycle either, is it? Hard times create strong people. Strong people create good times. Good times create weak people. Weak people create hard times. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bats brew Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 i've been using waves plug ins for over 10 years now, and have never had a single issue. just sayin'. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keni Posted April 18, 2023 Author Share Posted April 18, 2023 5 hours ago, Sheens said: By rude, cold and lacking humanity they adopted well to 2023 business/management standards. Between you and me-> world is going down for at least 1 generation. Probably longer... Nasty place! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keni Posted April 18, 2023 Author Share Posted April 18, 2023 1 hour ago, craigb said: I heard about the below cycle theory and it appears to be pretty accurate. Not hard to tell where we are in the cycle either, is it? Hard times create strong people. Strong people create good times. Good times create weak people. Weak people create hard times. Excellent... except I always have trouble with such subjective words such as good/bad, weak/strong, hard/soft etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keni Posted April 18, 2023 Author Share Posted April 18, 2023 9 minutes ago, batsbrew said: i've been using waves plug ins for over 10 years now, and have never had a single issue. just sayin'. I’m glad fir you and I’m sure there are some others, but you must’ve noticed the huge upsurge of information regarding issues with them. I enjoy the plugins, and the prices have always been reasonable, but if any issues arise they seem to be very difficult to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 39 minutes ago, Keni said: Excellent... except I always have trouble with such subjective words such as good/bad, weak/strong, hard/soft etc. Me too, but it wasn't my theory! 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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