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Apple Mac Mini M1

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1 hour ago, Hugh Mann said:

What I said is not inaccurate.  Maybe not stated in a technical way.  But the point was that it uses the ssd as a sort of ram.  Isn’t that what a swap file is?  You can try to get me on a technicality if you want,  but the point is accurate.   He is saying that because the sad is slower than the ram, performance will suffer.  He assumes, since he hasn’t tested an 8gb one.  Now of course, it’s not a bad assumption.  It will be a performance hit, compared to internal ram.  But how much of one? As in real world difference?  One can assume, but until tested,  it’s all speculation.  He is making it seem like it will be a crippling hit.  That is not the case.  It’s a misleading statement.  Here is a video that explains it well.  Around 1:20 minutes in.   Maybe Doug can practice his google searching and look up other articles and videos that explain this better.  

 

You really need to let this go. You have engendered so much ill will that even if you are proved right in the end and are vindicated, it will be a hollow victory. No one is going to want to interact with you after you have belittle and insulted people right, left and center. And saying "well they did it first" is childish and will not improve your standing in the community.

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17 hours ago, Jim Roseberry said:

Regarding the 5950x, if you're used to a near dead-silent machine... you're going to work much harder to achieve that with the 5950x vs. the 9900k or 10900k.

Is that because the 5950x gives off more heat, or something to do with the actual layout of motherboards/suitable cooling equipment?

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33 minutes ago, Doug Rintoul said:

You really need to let this go. You have engendered so much ill will that even if you are proved right in the end and are vindicated, it will be a hollow victory. No one is going to want to interact with you after you have belittle and insulted people right, left and center. And saying "well they did it first" is childish and will not improve your standing in the community.

^^That’s not bullying, lol. ^^ Be best.  Whatever.  I engendered I’ll will from some of you because I dared  to correct a false and exaggerated statement from someone you guys are a fan of. I don’t think that’s fair, especially since I’m correct.  but so be it.  Like I said,  it really reflects more on you guys than it does me.  Can we move on and stop making it personal now? Or do you need to vent your anger and abuse some more? 

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1 hour ago, abacab said:

 

Bullying is in the eye of the beholder

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4 minutes ago, Hugh Mann said:

^^That’s not bullying, lol. ^^ Be best.  Whatever.  I engendered I’ll will from some of you because I dared  to correct a false and exaggerated statement from someone you guys are a fan of. I don’t think that’s fair, especially since I’m correct.  but so be it.  Like I said,  it really reflects more on you guys than it does me.  Can we move on and stop making it personal now? Or do you need to vent your anger and abuse some more? 

No. Conversation is good. Interaction is good. It is fine if you express a different opinion or even point to independent studies that back up your point. However, it is the manner in which you went about it with statements like "Leaves intel and amd in the StoneAge", your whole mean girls thing, questioning my ability to search, questioning Jim's expertise, calling everyone a bully. Your whole attitude has been "me against the world" and it is not healthy. To paraphrase you, "if you can't see that, then  you have issues I can’t begin to address."

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20 minutes ago, Fleer said:

in the eye of the beholder

In my eye I shall believe what Jim has posted. He hasn't steered us wrong in how many years!   Really @Hugh Mann  you need to do your homework. Jim has been part of this community since the Cakewalk early days.   He tells it like it is and is very detail oriented. He doesn't care about the  CPU manufacturer inside the machines he sells. If AMD is better then Intel he will use AMD. Intel was kicking butt until AMD new 5000's series of chips for low latency audio came out.  Now about the Apple M1 chips, they are very nice mobile chips but they are not and I repeat the M1 are not Intel and AMD killers.    Heck the new AMD Ryzen 5700U, 5800U mobile processor would be better for most of us for a laptop build.  Plus Cakewalk by Bandlab would work on it.

Peace

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Doug Rintoul said:

No. Conversation is good. Interaction is good. It is fine if you express a different opinion or even point to independent studies that back up your point. However, it is the manner in which you went about it with statements like "Leaves intel and amd in the StoneAge", your whole mean girls thing, questioning my ability to search, questioning Jim's expertise, calling everyone a bully. Your whole attitude has been "me against the world" and it is not healthy. To paraphrase you, "if you can't see that, then  you have issues I can’t begin to address."

I corrected a false and misleading statement.  Some of you pounced on me and started attacking me cause it was Jim’s statement being challenged.  You guys did it in a snarky and bullying way.  Ganging up on me.  So I tried to poke fun and give it right back.  But, Like most bullies,  they can dish it out,  but can’t take it.  You where super condescending and sarcastic towards me.  I tried to make jokes with it. I even walked back the Stone Age comment since it bugged you so much.  I’ll admit, some of my jokes may have missed the mark.  I think I’m funny,  but maybe my wife is right and I’m not.  But I don’t listen  to her either,so whatever, lol.  Either way,  I feel I contributed positively to the community by correcting this misinformation.  If you get no value out of it,  that’s fine.  I really am not here for you, lol.  So again,  can we move on now please ? I’m sure everyone is just as tired of this pointless abuse by now as I am.  .  Thanks.  

Edited by Hugh Mann
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41 minutes ago, Doug Rintoul said:

To paraphrase you, "if you can't see that, then  you have issues I can’t begin to address."

Exactly!

1 hour ago, Hugh Mann said:

especially since I’m correct.

This is the point you constantly make that has no facts to back them up. And that's when I call BS.

 

15 minutes ago, Hugh Mann said:

pointless abuse by now as I am

Here is another point your constantly making with no facts to back you up.

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16 minutes ago, Hugh Mann said:

 I think I’m funny,  but maybe my wife is right and I’m not.

She maybe on to something.

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4 minutes ago, Grem said:

She maybe on to something.

I gave you that one lol.  

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6 minutes ago, Grem said:

Exactly!

This is the point you constantly make that has no facts to back them up. And that's when I call BS.

 

Here is another point your constantly making with no facts to back you up.

Ok, so let’s keep it going then.  Geez.   How ia what I’m saying incorrect? You really don’t know.  You have never tested one yourself and neither has Jim.  The 8gb model.  So until the tests come back,  all you have really done is troll me.  The very definition of trolling.  I ask again,  can you all just stop making this personal already? 

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2 hours ago, Hugh Mann said:

So what does all this equal in real world situations?

Means different things to different folks/scenarios.

 

Have you ever loaded the Yamaha C7 grand piano from Keyscape?

It loads terribly slow... even from the fastest M.2 SSDs.

 

You've been touting the M1 Mac Mini using internal M.2 SSD in lieu of enough physical RAM (random access memory).

In that scenario, the speed of the internal M.2 SSD is of extreme importance.

 

As time permits, I'll post performance examples running multiple large sample libraries.

The whole purpose will be to push the RAM limit... (not to adhere/cater to it)

 

Thus far the M1 Mac Mini has performed admirably... especially for what it is (small form-factor relatively inexpensive machine).

Based on what it is, I never expected the M1 Mac Mini to compete head-to-head with a decked out workstation.

Thus far... it hasn't, but as I said many posts above (based on what it is), that's not a fair apples:apples comparison.

The 5950x couldn't run in that tiny enclosure... without sounding like a vacuum cleaner.  😁

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1 hour ago, antler said:

Is that because the 5950x gives off more heat, or something to do with the actual layout of motherboards/suitable cooling equipment?

It's because there's 16 cores... and they heat up quick under load.

With fewer cores, temp fluctuation is less extreme. 

Forget anything but robust cooling.

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19 minutes ago, Hugh Mann said:

Ok, so let’s keep it going then.

There really is no need!!

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12 minutes ago, Hugh Mann said:

 You have never tested one yourself and neither has Jim.

This is borderline silly...

I got the 16GB model to test... because I know the 8GB version would be limited (by comparison).

Hmmm... why would Apple offer a 16GB version of the M1 Mini... if the 8GB version offered identical performance/capability???

The reason is obvious...

 

I've built audio/video specific machines professionally for nearly 30 years.

There's no way paging the VM Swap-file (on M.2 NVMe SSD) in lieu of enough physical RAM comes at zero performance penalty.

Unless Apple has re-written the laws of physics, it's not possible.

Clearly, the onboard SSD is not performing at ground-breaking speed.

 

What would be different if I tested the 8GB version?

The difference is that it would start hitting the VM Swap-file sooner.  

In either case, I'd push the M1 Mac Mini to use more than the installed amount of RAM (causing either to page the VM Swap-file - which makes it a moot point).

 

Currently loading large sample libraries onto an external M.2 SSD (attached to the M1 Mac Mini).

Detailed performance examples to follow...

 

 

 

 

 

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The Cakewalk beat down...

I've heard someone online complain what a bunch of mean girls hang out here...so it must be true!

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