Skip arranger section

[Starship Krupa]

I've been reading the July issue of Computer Music. The topic for this month is arranging.

They have a list of "tried and tested arrangement tips" and one that caught my eye was "skip cycle." It's a way to have the DAW skip over a section of the project on playback (possibly on render as well, but I've never used a DAW that had the function). They present this as a quick way to audition a pared down arrangement, but I can see it having other applications as well.

Quote

13 SKIP CYCLE

A quick way to check out an arrangement idea without actually changing anything is to use your DAW’s ‘skip cycle’ mode. This is where, instead of looping the cycle range, the playhead jumps over it, missing it out entirely; a good move if you want to see how the chorus sounds coming in straight after the verse, skipping the prechorus, for instance. Most DAWs have a version of this. For example, in Logic Pro, just hold down the Cmd key while dragging to set the range; or in Cubase, just swap the left and right loop locators around.

My idea for a handy way to add this to Cakewalk is to enable it in the Arranger. Select an arranger section, and in the existing context menu, there can be a checkbox for "skip on playback." Of course there can also be an assignable keystroke. It would have an advantage over the mentioned DAW's in that the user could have multiple Arranger sections set to skip.

It would provide a quick way to see if a section is "working" in the song, etc.

[sjoens]

I could be wrong but I thought the Arranger had a way to create different "arrangements" that can do this already.

Edited June 5, 2023 by sjoens

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

3 hours ago, sjoens said:

I could be wrong but I thought the Arranger had a way to create different "arrangements" that can do this already.

Yeah you can effectively achieve the same by auditioning a new arrangement that leaves out the uwanted sections

I guess if you could make Cakwalk skip over an arranger section in the main track view it could be a quicker way to try stuff out than creating a new arrangement.  

[Starship Krupa]

7 hours ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

you can effectively achieve the same by auditioning a new arrangement that leaves out the uwanted sections

Really?

To quote David Byrne, "How do I work this...."

Oh, I see. In the Arranger Inspector. Boy howdy, that is some powerful stuff!

Edited June 5, 2023 by Starship Krupa

[scook]

10 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

7 hours ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

you can effectively achieve the same by auditioning a new arrangement that leaves out the uwanted sections

Really?

To quote David Byrne, "How do I work this?"

see the To create new arrangement based on an existing arrangement section in http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Arranging.08.html

[msmcleod]

6 minutes ago, scook said:

see the To create new arrangement based on an existing arrangement section in http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Arranging.08.html

The documentation mentions selecting the sections first... you don't actually have to do this.  If no sections are selected, clicking the "Add sections to arrangement" button will add them all in their current order.

So @Starship Krupa:

1.  Make sure nothing is selected
2.  Click the "Add All Sections to Arrangement" button
3.  Delete the section you want to skip from the arrangement
4.  Click the Arrangement play button.

[sjoens]

and 5. Rearrange & duplicate sections as desired (in the Inspector)

2 hours ago, scook said:

see the To create new arrangement based on an existing arrangement section in http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Arranging.08.html

That's actually what I linked to in my post.

The Arranger Track is one of the best additions to CbB that isn't too complex to use. Articulations on the other hand...

[Starship Krupa]

13 minutes ago, sjoens said:

The Arranger Track is one of the best additions to CbB that isn't too complex to use. Articulations on the other hand...

As with many features of Cakewalk, I have yet to plumb the depths of its capabilities. I just use it as fancy markers so far, and to copy and paste easily.

This is awesome especially for EDM stuff.

[sjoens]

Yeah, you can also (with the right buttons lit in the Selection Module) grab a section in the main window and drag it around... or delete the whole section with one click. I use that one to create an End Of Song section to delete any rogue data floating beyond the song end. Pretty cool stuff. Then there's multiple Arranger Tracks... 

[Terry Kelley]

On 6/5/2023 at 11:13 AM, msmcleod said:

The documentation mentions selecting the sections first... you don't actually have to do this.  If no sections are selected, clicking the "Add sections to arrangement" button will add them all in their current order.

So @Starship Krupa:

1.  Make sure nothing is selected
2.  Click the "Add All Sections to Arrangement" button
3.  Delete the section you want to skip from the arrangement
4.  Click the Arrangement play button.

Well FMD!

Edited June 8, 2023 by Terry Kelley

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

On 6/5/2023 at 7:13 PM, msmcleod said:

1.  Make sure nothing is selected
2.  Click the "Add All Sections to Arrangement" button
3.  Delete the section you want to skip from the arrangement
4.  Click the Arrangement play button.

At the moment it kinda 'skips' when it has play a section out of order - You can work around it by committing to the arrangement and auditioning it properly in the main track view which can then be undone if you don't like it. I think if you can make the playback of the alternative arrangements smoother it would be a noticable mprovement to an already good feature.  

[Glenn Stanton]

yeah when i have a complex arrange that jumps around, i save it as a "temp_arrange" file and commit it (avoids the case with auto save or me instinctively press ctrl+s...) and then delete the temp file(s) later - lightweight and avoid any possibility of messing up the main file 🙂 

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

1 hour ago, Glenn Stanton said:

yeah when i have a complex arrange that jumps around, i save it as a "temp_arrange" file and commit it (avoids the case with auto save or me instinctively press ctrl+s...) and then delete the temp file(s) later - lightweight and avoid any possibility of messing up the main file 🙂 

Yes, essentially a workaround for some clunkiness

[Starship Krupa]

On 6/12/2023 at 9:02 AM, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

Yes, essentially a workaround for some clunkiness

The Clunk Monster rears its ugly head!

[Roger W]

Here's why I need some kind of Skip procedure . . . .

I'm adding a vocal track to a song with a longish guitar solo in the middle.
I would like to sing the 1st and 2nd verse, then proceed right to the 3rd verse -- skipping over the solo section.
But as it is now, each time I do a take, I have to wait while the solo plays through before I can sing the 3rd verse.

If I could just make a "Skip Selection" around the guitar solo on the Time Ruler, that would be great.

The best solution I know of now is to make a copy of the song, delete the solo section by Splitting all tracts and Sliding them to the left, then recording the vocal track.
I then have to import the new vocal track back into the full song, then split it before the 3rd verse, and place the 3rd verse after the solo.

I've never used the Arranger. Would that be easier?

 

 

[Starship Krupa]

23 minutes ago, Roger W said:

I've never used the Arranger. Would that be easier?

Seems like it would. Why not try it?

[Roger W]

OK . . . I tried it 🙂

I find that when doing Vocal Comping, having longish Instrumental Solos play in the middle of a song is a problem. I'll sing the first and second verse, then get distracted while the solo plays before I can sing the 3rd verse. I'll start to think about other things, and lose focus.

It would be nice if Cakewalk had a Skip Selection capability -- you make a Selection encompassing the Instrumental solo, so that when the song plays from beginning to end, that solo selection is skipped over.
Arranger might seem a simple solution, but it's not, because as far as I can tell you cannot record while playing back an Arrangement.

However, here's a method I came up with that uses Arranger . . . .

Using Arranger, create two Sections -- one before and one after the Instrumental solo. Move Sections down to Arrangement 1.
Mute Vocal track, select all clips in song, Export Arrangement to MP3.
Create two Audio tracks below the Vocal track:
    Track 1 - Original Vocal
    New Track 2 - for new comp Vocals, input set to Mic Output (#3 in my case
    New Track 3 - Import Arranger MP3 file
Mute all tracks, then UnMute Track 2 and Track 3

Record new Vocal on Track 2, using the imported Arranger MP3 file in Track 3 to sing along with.
Record as many vocal comps as desired. Use Comping Tool to create the best vocal.

UnMute all Tracks. Then Mute Tracks 1 and 3
Split the best Vocal comp Clip where the Instrumental solo starts, creating two Clips.
Align these two Clips with the original song tracks, skipping the solo, of course. You can Solo the original Vocal along with the new  Vocal track to insure that you've got the timing right. If correct it will sound Chorus-y.

The only thing I found difficult about this method was knowing when to come in with singing for the new track. When creating the new Arrangement, to avoid this be sure to leave enough time at the beginning of each Arrangement Section so you have a clue when to come in.
--------------------------

Another way to do this is without using Arranger, which also works . . . although I like Arranger method best.

Make a copy of the song file in Cakewalk that you will work with, just in case things get confused.
In the original file, delete a Selection containing the Instrumental solo --  dragging in the Time Ruler will insure that the section will be deleted in all tracks.
Slide the two remaining Selections together (count the number of meters to slide) by moving the 2nd Selection back toward the first Selection.
Mute all unused tracks and Vocal track, then export to MP3.

Repeatedly Undo all changes you have made to the file to return it to its unedited state.
Create 2 new Audio tracks:
     1) Import the MP3 with solo-cut-out into the 1st track.
    2)  The 2nd track will be used to record the new Vocal, with comping if desired.
Mute all tracks, then UnMute the two new tracks.
Turn off Monitors, turn off track Echo, then  Record Vocal comps.
Split  the best Vocal Clip where the Instrumental solo starts, creating two Clips.
Align these Clips with the other tracks. You can Solo the original vocal along with the new  Vocal track to help line it up. Using Snap, it aligns easily.

[Glenn Stanton]

another thought (and what i do) is you can use the arranger as in #1 - then export a 2-track (or mono) WAV file, then import that into a new project (e.g. projectname VOX.cwp) and do all your vocals in that project: lead, comps, backing, ad libs, etc etc. then export those finished vocals and import into the main project. the arranger removes the solo (and any other sections you don't need) and the 2-track WAV file let's you do all the vocal work without the weight of all the tracks in the main project (which lightens the CPU load and let's you work with lower latency).

[Starship Krupa]

On 10/13/2023 at 9:31 AM, Roger W said:

I'm adding a vocal track to a song with a longish guitar solo in the middle.
I would like to sing the 1st and 2nd verse, then proceed right to the 3rd verse -- skipping over the solo section.
But as it is now, each time I do a take, I have to wait while the solo plays through before I can sing the 3rd verse.

Would it be possible to do this with just a marker? Set a marker where you want to skip to and then use Alt+right arrow to skip to the marker? I don't know if Cakewalk allows that during recording, but it might.

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

1 hour ago, Starship Krupa said:

Would it be possible to do this with just a marker? Set a marker where you want to skip to and then use Alt+right arrow to skip to the marker? I don't know if Cakewalk allows that during recording, but it might.

What could be cooler is a new breed of ' Skip Marker ' that when reached wil jump to the next marker. It could just be an added option on the existing markers