At The End Of Forever - with Markno999 - remixed

[Lynn Wilson]

23 hours ago, batsbrew said:

cool tune! i dig the whole thing, but have a couple of suggestions on the mix...

 

vox too hot. needs to sit back in the mix a bit, it's just a bit caberet

 

drums too weak, the kick almost disappears.

 

other than that, i dig it!

reminds me a little bit of hendrix's 'merman' tune.

got that spacy otherworld

Rob, you have very good ears!  I agree that the drums could use some help and will do so.  As for the vocal, I was going for cabernet, not caberet   I may have to drink a little more wine to mix this...

Edited May 12, 2023 by Lynn Wilson

[FreeEarCandy]

On 5/5/2023 at 11:34 AM, Lynn Wilson said:

I appreciate and welcome your comments!  Yet, I'm not quite clear on what you're saying.  I don't think it's different interpretations, as it was me that wrote the string arrangement and overall arrangement.  I don't know exactly what you're suggesting about the vocals, but I'd be happy for more details.  As I said, I'm always willing to go a little further.

 

Hello Lynn. I hope all is well! I suppose what I'm picking up on is the key work follows loosely. It tends to grab my attention away from what I consider the main course-Vocals bass and drums. While the key work follows along in a fundamental sense,  the keys seem to be expressing a different energy than that of the main course.  Consequentially some of the transitions come across awkward as the song progresses. In particular after 3:40 it seems things are all momentarily moving in somewhat different directions., thus lacking more of a complimentary contribution.  

The vocals have only minor issues. Sibilance issues here and there. Also they tend to get too loud in spots. I think this is due to the volume dynamics of the underlaying tracks. I think the loudness wars have ruined our appreciation for soft moments. In the huge array of sound colors in our libraries silence is just as important as all the rest, and in my opinion the least utilized.  I often bring things down just before an explosive moment in order to give the explosion more impact.

The bottom line here is music is a very subjective affair, so take what I say with a grain of salt.  Most of what I am pointing out would help me more than perhaps you.  In the end its your tune and it should sound the way you want it to.  My opinion is self serving, but I'm happy to share it with you if you are looking for ideas via feedback.

Stay well, Dean.

 

[jwnicholson78]

I enjoyed that.

Jeff

[Paul Bush]

Hi , I really like all the changes always keeps the listener on his toes , yeah intresting song what I would call an album track ..nice one ..

[Lynn Wilson]

16 hours ago, FreeEarCandy said:

Hello Lynn. I hope all is well! I suppose what I'm picking up on is the key work follows loosely. It tends to grab my attention away from what I consider the main course-Vocals bass and drums. While the key work follows along in a fundamental sense,  the keys seem to be expressing a different energy than that of the main course.  Consequentially some of the transitions come across awkward as the song progresses. In particular after 3:40 it seems things are all momentarily moving in somewhat different directions., thus lacking more of a complimentary contribution.  

The vocals have only minor issues. Sibilance issues here and there. Also they tend to get too loud in spots. I think this is due to the volume dynamics of the underlaying tracks. I think the loudness wars have ruined our appreciation for soft moments. In the huge array of sound colors in our libraries silence is just as important as all the rest, and in my opinion the least utilized.  I often bring things down just before an explosive moment in order to give the explosion more impact.

The bottom line here is music is a very subjective affair, so take what I say with a grain of salt.  Most of what I am pointing out would help me more than perhaps you.  In the end its your tune and it should sound the way you want it to.  My opinion is self serving, but I'm happy to share it with you if you are looking for ideas via feedback.

Dean, I'm impressed by your detailed response and the time you took to delve into this song!  It's obvious  that we're having two different visions of this song, and that is not uncommon in art.  I have to admit that I don't hear all these issues that you hear, but that's OK.  I'll keep these points in the back of my mind either in future revisions or a future song.  Every little bit of information counts

[Lynn Wilson]

12 hours ago, jwnicholson78 said:

I enjoyed that.

Jeff

Thank you, Jeff!  I appreciate your comment.

 

7 hours ago, Paul Bush said:

Hi , I really like all the changes always keeps the listener on his toes , yeah intresting song what I would call an album track ..nice one ..

Hey Paul, thanks for your kind words!  You may be right about this being an album track;  I guess I'll have to give this song some company.

[Lynn Wilson]

Thanks to all of your responses, I've posted a remix of this song.  I've tried to incorporate your suggestions without compromising the overall vibe.  Basically, I thinned out the herd, so to speak, in order to not feel bloated and not have competing parts.  What do you all think?

 

https://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=14547171

[markno999]

Lynn,

Nice job on the remix,  the drums pop through better in this version and everything sounds well balanced.     Really a fan of this song, terrific work.

Regards

[freddy j]

Wow!!!!!  This is really excellent.  I love the way that you have been reaching out and trying different techniques.  Your vocals really stand out and and carry the excellent lyrics very well.  The various instrumentation and Fx give this a very tripy  feel.  This is an excellent collaboration and the mix sounds great to me.  Great work!!

[Lynn Wilson]

On 5/16/2023 at 3:33 PM, markno999 said:

Lynn,

Nice job on the remix,  the drums pop through better in this version and everything sounds well balanced.     Really a fan of this song, terrific work.

Regards

I had someone with very good ears watching over me

 

5 hours ago, freddy j said:

Wow!!!!!  This is really excellent.  I love the way that you have been reaching out and trying different techniques.  Your vocals really stand out and and carry the excellent lyrics very well.  The various instrumentation and Fx give this a very tripy  feel.  This is an excellent collaboration and the mix sounds great to me.  Great work!!

Thank you, Fred!  This song was so much for to work on, and very educational for me.  I keep discovering things by accident, and they end up in my songs   I changed mics for this song, using my old AT-4033, which suits my voice better than what I'd been using lately, I think.  Always good to hear from you!

[Makke]

Nice song. I liked the melody and soundscape. Well done arrangement.

Good performance and recording job. 👍

[Lynn Wilson]

11 hours ago, Makke said:

Nice song. I liked the melody and soundscape. Well done arrangement.

Good performance and recording job. 👍

Thank you so much for your encouraging words!  Keep up the good work, Makke!

[Barry Seymour]

On 5/3/2023 at 11:50 AM, FreeEarCandy said:

Sounds pretty much like a bunch of different interpretations of the same thing  being squeezed together.  In my opinion, for whatever its worth,  there are areas of tension between all these interpretations that may need to be sorted out. In other words, you could look at what you have and decide which interpretation will dominate any particular area of the composition at any given time.  The drums and bass are going to serve as the backbone, so your choices between which interpretation will dominate should only involve the other elements. The vocals treatment also needs some attention.  Its a good start for now. That's my inflated 2 cents, Lynn. Always glad to listen and be helpful if I can.

I have to agree about the vocal treatment. Should be a touch more spacey at the start, maybe a bit more reverb to match the music.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Barry Seymour

[Ross Smithe]

Hey Lynn, absolutely fantastic work you’ve done here! Very creative songwriting, and your (and Mark’s) performance are top notch. Production really fits too, well executed, as has been said sounds quite “Beatle-esque “.  Kind of reminds me of Cheap Trick’s Heaven Tonight also (and that one reminds me of the Beatles, lol!). The only comment I might make is the vocals struck me as sitting too forward in the mix. Could be you were trying to make them more in your face, it just struck me with the kind of trippy, psychedelic mix you have going on that the more stark vocal kind of stood out too much. You do have the cool delay effect going on, maybe a reverb effect to push it back and blend it in a bit? Just a thought. Again, great work!

Edited May 25, 2023 by Ross Smithe

[DeeringAmps]

Always enjoy hearing forum collaborations. 
So a big  👍s and 👏 to you both!

t

[Lynn Wilson]

On 5/24/2023 at 8:16 PM, Barry Seymour said:

I have to agree about the vocal treatment. Should be a touch more spacey at the start, maybe a bit more reverb to match the music.

 

On 5/25/2023 at 5:52 AM, Ross Smithe said:

Hey Lynn, absolutely fantastic work you’ve done here! Very creative songwriting, and your (and Mark’s) performance are top notch. Production really fits too, well executed, as has been said sounds quite “Beatle-esque “.  Kind of reminds me of Cheap Trick’s Heaven Tonight also (and that one reminds me of the Beatles, lol!). The only comment I might make is the vocals struck me as sitting too forward in the mix. Could be you were trying to make them more in your face, it just struck me with the kind of trippy, psychedelic mix you have going on that the more stark vocal kind of stood out too much. You do have the cool delay effect going on, maybe a reverb effect to push it back and blend it in a bit? Just a thought. Again, great work!

Barry and Ross, I'll address  your comments together, as they both are related to my vocal treatment.  You both may be on to something.  My goal was to not do the obvious:  after experimenting with various reverbs and delays, I thought that a drier vox on the verses would lift the lyrics better.  The vocal does get wetter as the song goes along, but it is fairly dry in the beginning.  This is one of those artistic decisions that I never know is correct or not until somebody listens and comments.  I appreciate your time and detailed comments!  I may wake up tomorrow and fully agree with you both.

 

23 hours ago, DeeringAmps said:

Always enjoy hearing forum collaborations. 
So a big  👍s and 👏 to you both!

t

Tom, thank you for your encouraging words!  I can't tell you how much a pleasure it is when someone as talented as Markno reaches out to me and offers  his help!  A big thumbs up to you et al.