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TVR PRODUCTIONS

Vsti Patches not saving in projects

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I've just tried a project with Vocal Rider & Bass Rider using both the Stereo and Mono versions of the plugins.

None had any issue recalling the settings.

It's going to be difficult for the Bakers to fix this unless they've got a reproducible case. 

Perhaps if they had a project with a complete undo history, they could try to re-trace the steps to reproduce? It would need a high undo history count, and obviously enough memory to cope with the high count.

 

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Posted (edited)

I contacted Korg regarding their M1 VSTI and they said that this would be a DAW issue where something is sending a midi message to reset something.  This happens to me using Korg M1 and Roland Cloud. Those are the only instruments I have installed that are not stock Cakewalk instruments. 

In my case, the Korg M1 vst is there but the wrong patch plays (there are over 1000 patches in many categories. Same with the Roland.  My only problems are the patches. I have no problems with effects plugins such as Waves, that I am aware of. 

I would send a project file to Cakewalk to review if it would help. I am not sure how to include a undo history.

Edited by TVR PRODUCTIONS

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FWIW, I’ve got KORG M1 Legacy version 1.7.0 installed and running in CbB 2019.03 and the selected patch is the patch that turns up after the project has been reopened, just as expected. The only other KORG Legacy VSTi I’ve got is WaveStation version 1.8.0 and it also reopens with the patch it was last saved with. This is regardless if I close and reopen the project while leaving CbB open, or if I close CbB altogether before reopening the project.

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3 hours ago, TVR PRODUCTIONS said:

I contacted Korg regarding their M1 VSTI and they said that this would be a DAW issue where something is sending a midi message to reset something.  This happens to me using Korg M1 and Roland Cloud. Those are the only instruments I have installed that are not stock Cakewalk instruments.

Are you using imported GM MIDI files, or are you creating your MIDI tracks from scratch?

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Posted (edited)
On 4/24/2019 at 5:30 PM, TVR PRODUCTIONS said:

I never updated any of these plugins. It is completely random. Some sounds seem to stick and most do not.  I am saving as a Cakewalk Project. Oddly, the correct patch is already selected in the instrument but the sound is not right so I increment the patch up one and back down again and it will play correctly. It s a pain to do that and only works if I wrote the original patch name down for reference.

Which ones reset on you?

I’m pretty sure this is a VST2/VST3 issue  They should not be mixed together in the same project   But if you insist on it you could try this  

Don’t know why is works - but now I don’t have to worry about what kind of plugins I use VST2,VST3 32bit/64bit and I can again focus on the mix. 

Here is what I do -

Uncheck boxes in vst settings
Replace if possible
Recycle plugin windows

Then when you save the file name it
Auto-save copy of song name.cwp
(Replace song name - your song name)

ALWAYS use save as and never
Use save or CTRL-S

Don’t know why but I have not lost any setting in since early March. 

I have been loosing settings over and over. It has been a nightmare resetting the plugins over and over. I think 2 years give or take. 

I seems a little weird but after 2 months and way over 100 saves and reopens with all plugins remembering their settings I know it works for me. 

Good luck

Thanks,
Max Arwood

Edited by Max Arwood

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Max, that recipe would be worth shooting Noel a PM about. To my knowledge there has never been a recipe to reproduce this issue, but a recipe to prevent it might be just as helpful.

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14 hours ago, Max Arwood said:

Which ones reset on you?

I’m pretty sure this is a VST2/VST3 issue  They should not be mixed together in the same project   But if you insist on it you could try this  

Don’t know why is works - but now I don’t have to worry about what kind of plugins I use VST2,VST3 32bit/64bit and I can again focus on the mix. 

Here is what I do -

Uncheck boxes in vst settings
Replace if possible
Recycle plugin windows

Then when you save the file name it
Auto-save copy of song name.cwp
(Replace song name - your song name)

ALWAYS use save as and never
Use save or CTRL-S

Don’t know why but I have not lost any setting in since early March. 

I have been loosing settings over and over. It has been a nightmare resetting the plugins over and over. I think 2 years give or take. 

I seems a little weird but after 2 months and way over 100 saves and reopens with all plugins remembering their settings I know it works for me. 

Good luck

Thanks,
Max Arwood 

Hi Max, did you send this info off to Noel? Could be useful, thanks, Tezza

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Are any of you experiencing this problem using Mix recall ???

Because theoretically, the only thing that can changes VST presets in a .CWP is mix recall.

I personally have never had this problem before. But maybe Mix recall doesn't like some Cakewalk users.

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30 minutes ago, Chuck E Baby said:

Are any of you experiencing this problem using Mix recall ???

Because theoretically, the only thing that can changes VST presets in a .CWP is mix recall.

I personally have never had this problem before. But maybe Mix recall doesn't like some Cakewalk users.

That's a really good point actually, especially if "Replace if Possible on Project Load" is checked and the Mix snapshots were created using the VST2 version before the project was saved.

When developing the C4Mapper, I noticed quite a few Waves plugins had a different ordering of parameters between VST2 / VST3. 

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Never used mix recall.  Bakers have copy of this info.  Praying they get it pinpointed.  Wish I had more figured out. Did you try this with M1? And.... do you have mixed plugins?  VST2/VST3 64bit-32bit In this project? Have you updated this plugin from VST2/VST3 or from 32bit to 64bit while working on this song. 

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On 4/29/2019 at 9:48 PM, TVR PRODUCTIONS said:

I would send a project file to Cakewalk to review if it would help. I am not sure how to include a undo history.

If you open up Task Manager whilst Cakewalk is running, right click on Cakewalk Application and select "Create Dump File" it will dump a snapshot of  your current state of Cakewalk.

I'm not sure if this is the same format as a minidump file though... but maybe the guys at Cakewalk can do something with it.

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I will create a new project later when I get home and only use my Korg M1 vst instrument. I will save, close and re-open. If it is correct, which I do not plan on, I'll be fine. If not, I will try the SAVE AS method above and open again.  I never heard of Replace if Possible on Project Load setting but will look for that too. Will report back later, hopefully with a reproducable problem. 

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13 minutes ago, TVR PRODUCTIONS said:

I will create a new project later when I get home and only use my Korg M1 vst instrument. I will save, close and re-open. If it is correct, which I do not plan on, I'll be fine. If not, I will try the SAVE AS method above and open again.  I never heard of Replace if Possible on Project Load setting but will look for that too. Will report back later, hopefully with a reproducable problem. 

I hope you do manage to reproduce it.

For the M1 though, I doubt it's a VST2/VST3 / "Replace if Possible on Project Load" thing as the M1 is VST2 only,

I've got a few projects using the M1 and they all work fine for me.

I'm using Instrument tracks with it, rather than separate audio/midi tracks with the synth rack... I wonder if that's the difference?

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I dont even touch the synth rack. I simply insert instrument tracks until I have what I need. I do not do anything other than that other than adding audio tracks. I do not touch any settings or tweak anything in CW. Im jealous that yours works with the M1. Does it also keep the settings if you alter the M1 effects (reverb or chorus levels?)

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28 minutes ago, TVR PRODUCTIONS said:

I dont even touch the synth rack. I simply insert instrument tracks until I have what I need. I do not do anything other than that other than adding audio tracks. I do not touch any settings or tweak anything in CW. Im jealous that yours works with the M1. Does it also keep the settings if you alter the M1 effects (reverb or chorus levels?)

Just tried it - it works fine for me:

m1_patch_test.gif

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O. Good news and bad news. Good news is that it worked. Bad news is that I could not recreate anything. I opened a new project and only used M1 sounds.  I added 4 tracks. Saved and closed. Re-opened. Still good. Closed out of Cakewalk and back in. Still good. Changed a few fx settings in the M1 patches to strip away the heavy reverb and chorus. Saved. Closed program and reopened and everything stuck. I then added a few Roland CLoud  patches which are vst3, so I mixed 2 and 3 and it all still worked after closing. I don't understand this but I feel good that it works. 

I then opened another project that I know was giving me a problem with a Roland Cloud patch. It is supposed to play patch #4 called Next Stop NIrvana but instead sounds like a tuba. I searched and found that it plays patch # 1 called Brass Tracks. So, I am having the issue, only it is with the Roland Cloud vst, Saved it using the Save As method above. Closed CW and opened and same results. I viewed the Midi Events and there is only one note played once and sustains, so I cannot see any midi message or instruction to do anything other than play the one note.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, TVR PRODUCTIONS said:

O. Good news and bad news. Good news is that it worked. Bad news is that I could not recreate anything. I opened a new project and only used M1 sounds.  I added 4 tracks. Saved and closed. Re-opened. Still good. Closed out of Cakewalk and back in. Still good. Changed a few fx settings in the M1 patches to strip away the heavy reverb and chorus. Saved. Closed program and reopened and everything stuck. I then added a few Roland CLoud  patches which are vst3, so I mixed 2 and 3 and it all still worked after closing. I don't understand this but I feel good that it works. 

I think the issue arises is when mixing VST2 & VST3 of exactly the same plugin.

6 minutes ago, TVR PRODUCTIONS said:

I then opened another project that I know was giving me a problem with a Roland Cloud patch. It is supposed to play patch #4 called Next Stop NIrvana but instead sounds like a tuba. I searched and found that it plays patch # 1 called Brass Tracks. So, I am having the issue, only it is with the Roland Cloud vst, Saved it using the Save As method above. Closed CW and opened and same results. I viewed the Midi Events and there is only one note played once and sustains, so I cannot see any midi message or instruction to do anything other than play the one note.

A couple of things to check:

1. Look at the track inspector for the track that the contains the Roland Cloud synth, and switch to the MIDI tab. Check that no program change or bank change is selected, and that everything is set to None:

image.png.495e2eaea68f4130cb77261f01190de7.png

2. Try Unchecking "Zero Controllers When Play Stops", setting the correct patch and re-save/reload your project:

image.png.380288494483606f95d09ba4f8d2d52a.png

3.  Check you've not got any stray MIDI tracks that are set to output to the Roland Cloud synth.

 

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I NEVER use VST3 plugins, just VST2, unless the VST3 version is the only available plug, and have had sporadic results with the AIR plugs. I say sporadic meaning once or twice in 10 years or more.

Thankfully,  there are far better plugs around than the ones that give me trouble so I just steer clear of them. Still, it's perplexing and would like to know why this problem persists. 

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I don’t think is has to be VST2/VST3 of the same plugin. I think a couple of really old plugins caused it  - ruby tube and possible silverspikes reverbit. And a few others. I Wish I had more time to test stuff. 

Max Arwood

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