It's official: CbB will not continue for long.

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

1 hour ago, Byron Dickens said:

I hope it does list at $499.

Honestly I wouldn't mind , I've earned far more than that from it even just in the last few months - If it came with a monthly call with Noel to go though my ideas on improving the UX then I'd sign up today.

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

9 minutes ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

The apps have a shared intermediary format. It can't do everything as there isn't 1:1 feature parity between Sonar and Next, but it does handle quite a few things, much more than uploading to bandlab.

I've not heard about my Beta Application - So were is Next positioned in the ecosystem  - is  it somewhere between the Bandlab App and CbB / Sonar ?

Edited September 13, 2023 by Mark Morgon-Shaw

[Terry Kelley]

Maybe at a $1000 it would weed out a couple more.

[AB7]

I do not think the price should be so high as to weed out people.  It needs to be a high enough price that makes it sustainable for the Owner but also a low enough price so there is a critical mass of users.

Edited September 14, 2023 by AB7777

[John Vere]

2 hours ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

The apps have a shared intermediary format. It can't do everything as there isn't 1:1 feature parity between Sonar and Next, but it does handle quite a few things, much more than uploading to bandlab.

Thank you!  I was hoping my comment would bear fruit. 

[chris.r]

3 hours ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

The apps have a shared intermediary format.

This got me thinking. Up until now I never gave a thought about how the project is actually saved, always have it taken granted as writing the actual state of project into some sort of bulk of zeros and ones, that can perfectly replicate on next reopen (please don't laugh I'm musician not programmer, lol). Now I'm starting getting it that since the project itself might have a format, this may be a culprit to the errors that I'm getting after doing a couple of different clip edits at once - cut, move, slide content, stretch - it all plays fine right until saved and reopen. Now I'm starting getting it that on saving, there is probably some part of the information missing hence the errors on reopening, some edits aren't saved correctly. Am I onto something here?

If yes, then I should probably go back to that project and try to replicate exact steps to reproduce the error. Is that something bakers would like to look into it? (or maybe since we're under BandLab now, I rather should say alchemists, not bakers )

The only shame is that any eventual fixes won't find a way into CbB anymore.

[chris.r]

18 hours ago, MarcL said:

On 9/12/2023 at 7:32 PM, Larioso said:

And having a paid versions that still needs timely reactivations is not so good in my world, since I had issues with CbB doing that 3 years ago. So went back to Sonar, I don't want anything just stop working suddenly.

^^^Absolutely agree! That's why I still have Sonar Platinum available on all of my systems! ... just in the worst case!

I'm even more paranoid so I authorized with offline method and saved copies of responses on 3 different HDDs, just in case (even though no one ever said it will help whatsoever)! 👍

[Lord Tim]

1 hour ago, chris.r said:

This got me thinking. Up until now I never gave a thought about how the project is actually saved, always have it taken granted as writing the actual state of project into some sort of bulk of zeros and ones, that can perfectly replicate on next reopen (please don't laugh I'm musician not programmer, lol). Now I'm starting getting it that since the project itself might have a format, this may be a culprit to the errors that I'm getting after doing a couple of different clip edits at once - cut, move, slide content, stretch - it all plays fine right until saved and reopen. Now I'm starting getting it that on saving, there is probably some part of the information missing hence the errors on reopening, some edits aren't saved correctly. Am I onto something here?

If yes, then I should probably go back to that project and try to replicate exact steps to reproduce the error. Is that something bakers would like to look into it? (or maybe since we're under BandLab now, I rather should say alchemists, not bakers )

The only shame is that any eventual fixes won't find a way into CbB anymore.

No, this isn't quite accurate.

What Jon is talking about is a new format that exports kind of a "translation" file format that Next can open and vice versa, not a regular saved .CWP project file. Next doesn't have the feature set that Cakewalk (well, Sonar) has so it needs one of these conversion files to be able to turn it into a format Next can import. For direct saving of CWP projects to be reopened in Cakewalk, this is a straight 1:1 save/open.

If you look at your project folder when stuff is being saved, it will quickly make a temp file where it's all checked and then saved as your CWP project file, just to make sure nothing is corrupt before it commits it to disk. Any issues in a project will almost certainly be in the project from working in the project itself (for whatever reason - bad plugin data, something gotten into a bad state, etc) but the load and save is something Noel has specifically mentioned over the years as a thing he's refined to be very robust.

[chris.r]

1 hour ago, Lord Tim said:

What Jon is talking about is a new format that exports kind of a "translation" file format that Next can open and vice versa...

Ach, sorry I had been so focused on trying to be as much clear in explaining the issue I'm getting here, that I completely forgot to start with a small detail that I'm talking about CbB, not Next. Jon's post was just what triggered me to go back to the issue and look at it from a different point of view.

1 hour ago, Lord Tim said:

Any issues in a project will almost certainly be in the project from working in the project itself (for whatever reason - bad plugin data, something gotten into a bad state, etc) but the load and save is something Noel has specifically mentioned over the years as a thing he's refined to be very robust.

I might have actually found a bug then, will try to see if I can get the exact steps to reproduce. Don't thing there were any plugins in there, just edits on a wave file. If I bounce to disk it will sound as expected but when I tried to save project then something got broken as if one of the edits didn't save at all and that led to a mangled state on reopen. Had to start from scratch and redo everything then bounce right away, that's the only way.

[Lord Tim]

31 minutes ago, chris.r said:

I might have actually found a bug then, will try to see if I can get the exact steps to reproduce. Don't thing there were any plugins in there, just edits on a wave file. If I bounce to disk it will sound as expected but when I tried to save project then something got broken as if one of the edits didn't save at all and that led to a mangled state on reopen. Had to start from scratch and redo everything then bounce right away, that's the only way.

If you can get an exact recipe of steps (start a new thread for that) and can show what's clearly happening and then getting your CWP over to the Bakers, that'd be a big help in trying to fix it.  It doesn't sound like a widespread thing, but that doesn't mean it's not a legitimate bug that's being exposed by something that's happening inside your project.

[David Baay]

41 minutes ago, Lord Tim said:

It doesn't sound like a widespread thing, but that doesn't mean it's not a legitimate bug that's being exposed by something that's happening inside your project.

I agree. I don't recall ever encountering a serious issue with persistence of clips edits from one sesison to another, but a project- or workflow-specific bug is always possible. The one thing I know of that's not saved properly right now are tweaks to transient marker positions in an Audiosnap clip. And there have occasionally been certain preferences like RMS+Peak meters that would fail to save (actually I think that one's also still with us), but rarely has anything affected the sound of a project.

Whatever is happening won't likely get fixed without a reproducible example.

[Jesse Screed]

6 hours ago, chris.r said:

Ach, sorry I had been so focused on trying to be as much clear in explaining the issue I'm getting here, that I completely forgot to start with a small detail that I'm talking about CbB, not Next. Jon's post was just what triggered me to go back to the issue and look at it from a different point of view.

I might have actually found a bug then, will try to see if I can get the exact steps to reproduce. Don't thing there were any plugins in there, just edits on a wave file. If I bounce to disk it will sound as expected but when I tried to save project then something got broken as if one of the edits didn't save at all and that led to a mangled state on reopen. Had to start from scratch and redo everything then bounce right away, that's the only way.

This is the first time I have tried the early access.

I am having some strange behavior with the new early release also.  I can't quite nail it down, but after saving I am experiencing lost clips and other weirdness.  I have not spent the time to dissect it, but there is something strange happening on projects that were stable before.

I think I might roll back to save myself some frustration.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Jesse Screed

[charles kasler]

A few people have reported problems when upgrading to the final version of cbb. Is it necessary to even do that if we plan to move to sonar anyway?

[Lord Tim]

Sonar will be its own install alongside CbB, and will be paid right from the get-go as far as I understand it, whereas CbB will at least continue to work until the activation lapses on it (this is how I'm understanding it anyway, I'm sure the Bakers will clearly explain the deal once Sonar is released), so it makes sense for this last round of fixes for CbB for those who haven't made up their mind about staying with Cakewalk going forward.

But yeah, if you're planning to stick with Cakewalk and shift over to Sonar, there probably isn't a great deal of reasons to make sure CbB is updated.

[Lord Tim]

Just as a sanity check, we should have a scroll back through a few past EA release threads too - this one doesn't seem much more or less problematic than prior ones, so if you're on CbB 2022.11 and it feels OK, the EA for that also had the same ups and downs as this one does for some users. It'll all get worked out.

[chris.r]

5 hours ago, David Baay said:

but rarely has anything affected the sound of a project

It was a combination of split, slip-edit/rearrange, sliding content of a partial clip, stretch a partial and possibly mute clips or selection, on a soulful guitar lick to adapt it to the song so it did sound as if it was another lick altogether after I finished editing. It did play fine with all the edits until saving and reopening the project. It did also bounce fine when I redid it second time. I'll try to find the recipe.

1 hour ago, Jesse Screed said:

I am having some strange behavior with the new early release also.

For me it did happen in one of the previous versions, not even the latest stable. I installed the EA now in order to check if it plays fine on my system so I might try to see if I can reproduce the same bug with it.

[57Gregy]

With all the speculation and announcements of desired features that we want to have in the next iteration of Cakewalk, I think we're missing the most important thing:
Will it be Sonar or SONAR? 😁

[John Vere]

Please people if you have issues start a new thread this one has gotten way to long already and hijacker’s make it worse. 

And I also see people are not getting the correct information

Here is what I understand. 

1-The latest release is not the final version. It is an early access only. It is very doubtful that it introduces new bugs. It is actually the opposite it has been further de - bugged.

 
2- The final release is not available yet and when it is-- we have clearly been told ALL users will need to update to that version as all other older versions will go into demo mode. Only the last release will activate and be useable until the time out.

3- The final version of CbB will time out eventually. We are told they will be giving CbB users time to transition. That is all. But!  it will happen.  

4. We are also told Sonar will come in different versions and price points including free. 
 (It is only my speculation that it will look a lot like it did in 2015. ) 

Edited September 15, 2023 by JohnnyV

[gustabo]

28 minutes ago, JohnnyV said:

And I also see people are not getting the correct information even though I made video explaining as clearly as possible.

Your video is still speculation. For real answers, stay tuned...

[Lord Tim]

42 minutes ago, 57Gregy said:

With all the speculation and announcements of desired features that we want to have in the next iteration of Cakewalk, I think we're missing the most important thing:
Will it be Sonar or SONAR? 😁

Actually that's a good question and I did ask a dev that.

The pre-CbB version of the application was SONAR, intended to be stylised in all caps.

Going forward, the upcoming releases are Cakewalk Sonar and Cakewalk Next, so no specific capitlisation there.