Am I reading the “tea leaves” right? (Sonar Activation)

[Resonant Serpent]

So, this is the "final" public release of Sonar? Or, are we paying to beta the program?

[Hillmy]

Sonar has not been released yet. The BandLab Membership includes Early Access to software. Sonar is out of internal beta and is now offered as public early access. When Sonar is released it will no longer be "early access" and no longer be a part of the BandLab Membership. So if you purchase an annual subscription to BandLab Membership for the sole reason of using Sonar, then don't be surprised when you no longer have access to Sonar if it gets released in under a year and you have to actually buy the program to use it again.

Just stating the obvious in case people don't like reading fine AND large print elsewhere and don't like figuring things out. 

[Hill62]

38 minutes ago, Hillmy said:

Sonar has not been released yet. The BandLab Membership includes Early Access to software. Sonar is out of internal beta and is now offered as public early access. When Sonar is released it will no longer be "early access" and no longer be a part of the BandLab Membership. So if you purchase an annual subscription to BandLab Membership for the sole reason of using Sonar, then don't be surprised when you no longer have access to Sonar if it gets released in under a year and you have to actually buy the program to use it again.

Just stating the obvious in case people don't like reading fine AND large print elsewhere and don't like figuring things out. 

I would guess there will remain an early access to updates to Sonar and Next as part of the Back Stage Pass. I can't see them doing a bait and switch, and take away an obvious reason for purchasing the Back Stage Pass, an all-in-one package. It should continue to offer early access to the latest version of the software.

Perhaps Noel or someone can clarify.

Edited March 11 by Hill62

[Heath Row]

2 hours ago, Hillmy said:

Sonar has not been released yet. The BandLab Membership includes Early Access to software. Sonar is out of internal beta and is now offered as public early access. When Sonar is released it will no longer be "early access" and no longer be a part of the BandLab Membership. So if you purchase an annual subscription to BandLab Membership for the sole reason of using Sonar, then don't be surprised when you no longer have access to Sonar if it gets released in under a year and you have to actually buy the program to use it again.

Just stating the obvious in case people don't like reading fine AND large print elsewhere and don't like figuring things out. 

Either I'm reading what you are saying there wrong, or they be some truly spun, waked out tea leaves you got there, where can I get me some?

[John Vere]

Actually the price of the Backstage pass is on par with what other music delivery service charge.
Take a look at what is available to you as other services. This is no different than DistroKid or CD baby.

These delivery services are making big bucks on the backs of the millions of wannabe “creators”. ( notice I didn’t say musician). Seems every week a new one pops up. Even Sound Click just changed into one. 
Anyhow the  backstage pass is worth more than just admitting you to Sonar. 

[Hillmy]

39 minutes ago, Heath Row said:

Either I'm reading what you are saying there wrong, or they be some truly spun, waked out tea leaves you got there, where can I get me some?

Well, as much as I'd like to say that I am a psychic prophet with mad tea leaf reading skills..... no I'm not. 😛

To put what I said in laymen's terms of this day and age; It is a beta demo. You are using a beta demo. When it is no longer a beta, and is publicly announced and released, you cant use the beta anymore because it will be outdated. That simple!

I used the wrong terminology here on purpose because if I say "Early Access" they may not understand what I am saying, even though we had many Early Access versions with Cakewalk by BandLab (i.e.  No one ever stays on the early access version when it is done. They just upgrade to the new release patch instead). You can consider early access versions as "Gamma" if it makes understanding it better, LOL!

If you go to bandlab.com/membership and read and comprehend the page,  you will understand that it is all about helping musicians create, advertise, and distribute their music. That is the main goal of the membership! It's a paid upgraded version of the services that they already give for free. "Backstage Pass" which gives access to new software and features still in development, is only one of the features of the paid service and it is more than just Cakewalk!

I'll try to make this even more clear and obvious (if that is even possible LOL); If a demo lasts only 6 months but you have to pay to use the demo, does it make sense to pay for a year for it? NO ofcourse not! When you get a BandLab Membership is it only for using Sonar? NO ofcourse not! It is way more than that and is why you can pay yearly and monthly for it even AFTER Sonar is released and no longer in Early Access status. You will lose access to Sonar but still access anything else they have as Early Access and ALL the other member features and services they have. So now if you want to use Sonar you would have to buy it. 

I hope this clears up things. If not, then I would be a very bad teacher that cant explain things to kids. 😛

[Heath Row]

Can you explain that bit again?

[Larry Jones]

18 minutes ago, Hillmy said:

When it is no longer a beta, and is publicly announced and released, you cant use the beta anymore because it will be outdated.

I think what you are leaving out is that Bandlab is currently in a somewhat tenuous position with their flagship DAW, having announced it nine months ago and still not delivered. I don't think I'm the only long-time Cakewalk/Pro Audio/SONAR user who is a bit testy about being told the current free DAW is at end of life, and the replacement won't be free, and then suffering this interminable wait with very little info about what's happening. (Please note I don't use it because it is free. It became free while I was using it -- and paying regularly for upgrades.)

So I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that when the beta of New Sonar expires, Bandlab will ask for more money to keep using the final release, simply because they will want to accommodate their existing customer base, which has been, all things considered, quite loyal and patient. I think the most likely scenario (and what do I know?) is that those who ponied up for the Bandlab Membership mainly to get access to New Sonar will be allowed to keep that access as part of their membership. After the membership expires, I'd expect to have a choice between re-upping and buying Sonar sans Membership.

Otherwise I'd go from being testy to being cranky.

[Hillmy]

16 minutes ago, Larry Jones said:

I think what you are leaving out is that Bandlab is currently in a somewhat tenuous position with their flagship DAW, having announced it nine months ago and still not delivered. I don't think I'm the only long-time Cakewalk/Pro Audio/SONAR user who is a bit testy about being told the current free DAW is at end of life, and the replacement won't be free, and then suffering this interminable wait with very little info about what's happening. (Please note I don't use it because it is free. It became free while I was using it -- and paying regularly for upgrades.)

So I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that when the beta of New Sonar expires, Bandlab will ask for more money to keep using the final release, simply because they will want to accommodate their existing customer base, which has been, all things considered, quite loyal and patient. I think the most likely scenario (and what do I know?) is that those who ponied up for the Bandlab Membership mainly to get access to New Sonar will be allowed to keep that access as part of their membership. After the membership expires, I'd expect to have a choice between re-upping and buying Sonar sans Membership.

Otherwise I'd go from being testy to being cranky.

I think it sucks that we wont be able to use the free version going forward just like the legacy Sonar users have been using their version since (and they will probably be able to use legacy Sonar even AFTER the new Sonar is released). I thought we could continue using it but it wont be supported anymore, but that is not the case. We have just been using it as a years long free trial it seems. They however never made it open source or a freeware license. It was more open ended.

If you fall to ignorance and assumptions and it costs you to lose money, then it isn't BandLab's fault. The thing here is, you don't have to use Sonar at all and can use the FREE Cakewalk by BandLab until you cant anymore because Sonar is finally released. The only reason Sonar is accessible right now is for public testing. It has no marketing, no pricing, no release date, nothing concrete. So if you take a risk for paying for something you don't need that is unstable and you lose access to it, it's your own fault. No software company grants use of their beta after release. As for the membership, they will just direct you to the fine print and the obvious print that some people ignore to read.

[Heath Row]

1 hour ago, Larry Jones said:

 I think the most likely scenario (and what do I know?) is that those who ponied up for the Bandlab Membership mainly to get access to New Sonar will be allowed to keep that access as part of their membership. After the membership expires, I'd expect to have a choice between re-upping and buying Sonar sans Membership.

Otherwise I'd go from being testy to being cranky.

I would agree that that is the most likely scenario. I can tell from your tea leaves that there is nothing but tea in your cup (maybe a bit of sugar and milk, but . . . ) and that you are drinking them, not smoking them.

I couldn't gel with the idea that they would just make you pay again for what you had already paid for and were in the process of using. (although some may bring up Lif. . . . . , well you know what they might bring up)

Edited March 11 by Heath Row
payed - paid

[Will.]

7 hours ago, Hillmy said:

Sonar has not been released yet. The BandLab Membership includes Early Access to software. Sonar is out of internal beta and is now offered as public early access. When Sonar is released it will no longer be "early access" and no longer be a part of the BandLab Membership. So if you purchase an annual subscription to BandLab Membership for the sole reason of using Sonar, then don't be surprised when you no longer have access to Sonar if it gets released in under a year and you have to actually buy the program to use it again.

Just stating the obvious in case people don't like reading fine AND large print elsewhere and don't like figuring things out. 

This is very very wrong information! 

People should not be reading into this. Bandlab owns Sonar, so it will always be part of a Bandlab's membership - irrespective of new price plans that might come out later | and | if Sonar starts to run on separate servers. It will always be owned by Bandlab. 

Those who purchace a Backstage Pass gets an Early Access membership. This means that if you own a Backstage Pass you have the privilledge of getting the full DAW including new releases and updates before the general Public! Its in the name "B A C K S T A G E P A S S" 

Call it a V.I.P. Membership. 

Edited March 11 by Will.

[Hillmy]

7 minutes ago, Will. said:

Those who purchace a Backstage Pass gets an Early Access membership. This means that if you own a Backstage Pass you have the privilledge of getting the full DAW including new releases and updates before the general Public! Its in the name "B A C K S T A G E P A S S" 

That's exactly what it is! "BEFORE the general public". Then when it is released to the general public it will no longer be part of the Backstage Pass. So, you will have to purchase the released Sonar the way BandLab wants you to. If they do decide later that a BandLab Membership means you get free access to Sonar and Next as a subscription service, then they can do that too. But I doubt it. I think it will be separate from BandLab Membership later on because it is no longer "backstage" anymore, and why would they do that when they can get more money.

If you thought I meant Sonar will no longer be a part of BandLab the company and that you will have to buy it from another owner then you totally misunderstood me.

[Heath Row]

Amen Will Kaydo 👍

Edited March 11 by Heath Row
Spelling

[Hillmy]

1 hour ago, Heath Row said:

I would agree that that is the most likely scenario. I can tell from your tea leaves that there is nothing but tea in your cup (maybe a bit of sugar and milk, but . . . ) and that you are drinking them, not smoking them.

I couldn't gel with the idea that they would just make you pay again for what you had already paid for and were in the process of using. (although some may bring up Lif. . . . . , well you know what they might bring up)

Paying for BandLab Membership does not equal paying for Sonar. It only gives you early access to Sonar and Next and whatever they add to "Backstage Pass". But hey, don't listen to me....... I'll just be here smoking my tea leaves with my fellow spirit elves. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Will.]

Again.

Those who purchase a Backstage Pass now, will always be part of the BACKSTAGE PASS MEMBERSHIP aka "Early Access program." 

You are being given the opportunity to take advantage of this offer and to be an Early Access owner with all its offers included. Its a great and exciting offer to be part of before the general public. 

Edited March 11 by Will.

[Hillmy]

7 minutes ago, Will. said:

Again.

Those who purchase a Backstage Pass now, will always be part of the BACKSTAGE PASS MEMBERSHIP aka "Early Access program." 

You are being given the opportunity to take advantage of this offer and to be an Early Access owner with all its offers included. Its a great and exciting offer to be part of before the general public. 

Everything you said is correct and I didn't say anything that is against this. If they pay and continue to pay the subscription then they will always have a backstage pass.

[Hillmy]

Oh, I just realized that people may think the BandLab Membership = Sonar subscription pre-order. It is not.

Synthmaster 3 is currently in alpha or beta (not sure which one), but they are actually selling the update early so you can buy it right now before release and test out the new features. And when it's released you will get the completed fully released version free because you already paid for it beforehand. Also many games have pre-orders and early access. 

The BandLab Backstage Pass is not this! Why? Because they didn't publicly announce that you can get all their membership services together with two DAWs Sonar and Next all for the price of $14.95 per month.  Also saying that when it's released nothing changes for you because you "bought" it early and you can just keep subscribing to keep using Sonar and you will also own Next as well as access to all the BandLab music services. I don't know why people think that is what it is when no where on the BandLab website or the Cakewalk website say that.

This is what this website https://www.cakewalk.com/sonar says: "Cakewalk Sonar is still in development, but you can gain early access through Backstage Pass — an experimental program available to users with an active BandLab Membership."

And this website https://www.cakewalk.com/next says: "Cakewalk Next is still in development, but you can gain early access through Backstage Pass — an experimental program available to users with an active BandLab Membership."

And this website https://www.bandlab.com/membership says: "Backstage Pass: Unlock exclusive, experimental, and early access features on BandLab before anyone else" Since they say "BandLab" and not Sonar or Next here, I think they mean the online BandLab Studio DAW and mobile app.

NOWHERE does it say on three pages "BUY SONAR AND NEXT EARLY WITH THIS MEMBERSHIP" also they  did not announce whether either of the DAWs will be subscription or one time purchase. So it is implied if not stated that this is just to test out the software in development. But I guess they have to make it more clear to people that like making an ***** out of themselves by assuming this is how you "buy Sonar before anyone else".

The same way we had Cakewalk by BandLab early access for the new updates is the same thing here, except you have to pay for it to fully use it.  But if you think this is a pre-order subscription and don't believe me then enjoy your subscription and keep taking everything I said wrong an ignore everything I just said.

 

Edited March 11 by Hillmy
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[pwal³]

6 hours ago, Hillmy said:

To put what I said in laymen's terms of this day and age; It is a beta demo. You are using a beta demo. When it is no longer a beta, and is publicly announced and released, you cant use the beta anymore because it will be outdated. That simple!

i believe @Noel Borthwick said in another thread that it's not a beta, it's the finished thing?

eta, here:

 

Edited March 11 by pwal³

[Heath Row]

@Hillmy, I think I am catching on, could you just explain what you mean in the last post from 'Oh,' on wards?

[Will.]

1 hour ago, Hillmy said:

Because they didn't publicly announce that you can get all their membership services

It has been on the Cakewalk website for over a month! Before it was even announced on the forum!

It includes access to free Distribution for a year. Free access to thousands of sound libraries, help to build you a fanbase and to stay intouch with them. This offers are a great start for those that are independent in their field. 

Edited March 11 by Will.