Resonant Serpent Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 The Nvidia HD Audio driver will kill your performance. You can't uninstall it because it reinstalls itself. You have to quarantine it in the device manager. This is why I got rid of my Nvidia cards. Switched to Radeon, and haven't had a graphics related problem since. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ward Posted December 30, 2023 Author Share Posted December 30, 2023 Hi Res Serp. Thanks for your tip here. Only the other evening I went to my Device Manager and disabled the NVIDIA HD driver, which as I check now still shows it to be in the disabled state. I trust that's what you mean by "quarantine". 🖐️ Happy New Year to you and all !!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ward Posted December 31, 2023 Author Share Posted December 31, 2023 Today, I decided before anything else, I would lighten my 'C' Drive by putting all old projects to DVD. As I moved the first files into a new temporary folder to send to my DVD Drive, I noticed that my 'Performance' window in CbB showed a red marker where it shows disc space. For the last few weeks it was reading 264Gb. This temporary doubling of 4x projects took me into the danger zone (somewhere around the 75% mark). I finished doing that chore and went back to my current project. With the 4x VSTs and the plugins on them frozen and with all plugins on all other tracks disabled, I hit 'Play'. The Performance window read 'Audio Processing' = 0.19%. The 'Engine Load' read 1.3% and I got 0x Late Buffers. The yellow bars that go up and down were not seen in their window at all. I then engaged the 3x plugins on my Main Vox track ONLY (Nectar 4, Waves Silk Vocal and Soundtoys Superplate). On 'Play', Audio Processing = 2.7% average, Engine Load was up to 25-26% and on play through 3x times over, I got 1-2 Late Page audio glitches. Although those 3x plugins on only one of my tracks illicited an increase in the readings, I'm stunned by the fact that Late Buffer glitches occured when the figures were still so low !!! The yellow bars were barely appearing in their window. I just can't believe that with Audio Process at a very low 2.7% average and Engine Load also at a low 26% that ANY Late Buffers should occur. What is going on in my PC ??!!!! Again, as I write this 30x mins on from stopping play, the Late Buffer count has moved up to 18x. Does this mean anything to anyone ?? Do you get Late Buffer glitches when your performance figures are down that low ?? It seems to suggest that anything above 1% in the 'Performance' window triggers them. Is that just on my setup ?? I would dearly love some of you good people to let me know your experiences. It looks like I will be entering 2024 smack up against a brick wall. Cheers for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ward Posted December 31, 2023 Author Share Posted December 31, 2023 Quick update : I disengaged Nectar 4, leaving the other 2x plugins active. Audio Processing read 0.7% and Engine Load 7.2% average which gave me 2x Late Buffer strikes - one silent and the other audible. With Performance figures down even further than the above post, there are Late Buffer strikes. Unbelievable !!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ward Posted January 1 Author Share Posted January 1 Trust you have all enjoyed your festivities. Here's an extract from an old thread : On 4/13/2020 at 6:41 PM, DevDevy said: Yeah I'm not sure what's causing it, I tried looking through it but it seems like a 'could be anything' scenario.. But I still find the situation odd. The VST works without pops or crackles inside Reaper, FL Studio, AND Ableton. Why would Cakewalk be different? And THAT ("Why would Cake ...") is the million dollar question, and I must sadly say it gets asked way too often about our audio engine. Does that above extract take this thread all the way back to my opening post ?? I'm still trying to solve my issue with a multitude of changes to settings (so far without any luck). LATENCYMON has just reported back to me that the process with the highest pagefault count was ....... wait for it ...... latmon.exe !!! This was with my latest project open in Cakewalk in the background, with the Performance window showing Late Buffers increasing without the engine running - and that was before I instigated Latencymon. If I can't solve my issue in the next 2x weeks or so, it may well be that I shall be heading for a brand new PC with just Windows and Cakewalk on the 'C' drive and all plugins and VSTs on internal SSDs. All my other apps like Photoshop, Painter, Xara and several others would stay on this PC, quite separate from Cakewalk. If I still get these issues on the new PC (from an audio PC specialist), then it would be a (sad) case of me giving up on this DAW. I say sad, because as a graphic designer (retired) I have fallen for Cakewalk's GUI many times over, but what good is 'pretty, pretty' if it just doesn't perform. I have been overwhelmed with all the big names that contributed to this thread and thank you for it, but there was one who stayed out so far ........ Noel. I shall come back in due course to 'close' this thread with either triumphal horns blowing or with fingers crossed that my new PC will help Cakewalk perform. If any of you have any further thoughts, I would love to hear them. Don't know why John Vere edited out of this thread, I miss him. Cheers for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Anderton Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 It seems like Superplate may be an issue...check out this thread. One of the replies said he's experienced problems with it if the latency is too high or too low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ward Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 Hi Craig, The Late Buffers were still 'striking' even after I started disengaging all my plugins. What I'm beginning to notice after trying most suggestions is that if I instantiate just 3x plugins, my Engine Load rises above the 3.8% mark and triggers Late Buffers. Surely 3.8% Engine Load is way too low for this to happen. I've been watching a whole load of vids on this and reading as many on-line sources and most people can get clean playback up to 35% Engine Load and even more depending on their PC spec. I'm thinking the quickest way to find out if there's a problem with my system/set up rather than thinking it's an issue with CbB is to copy my project over to someone with a similar PC spec. and have them load it into their instance of CbB and start adding plugins one by one whilst watching the Performance meter climb. If their set up gets past my 3.8% Engine Load WITHOUT Late Buffer strikes, then it must be my system at fault. Or maybe you might be good enough to tell me what one of your 'small' projects takes your Engine Load to. Mine consists of 4x synths (frozen), 3x tracks of lead vox with 2x of them muted and 3x tracks of backing vocals. I currently have an instance of Waves Silk Vocal active on the lead vox and another on a bus which is fed by the 3x backing tracks. My Engine Load with just these 2x active plugins puts my Engine Load between 1.8 - 2% and no glitches. The second I insert/activate just 1x more plugin like Superplate (which increases my Engine load by 2%), I'm over the 3.8% and trigger Late Buffers. I'm actually hoping that I have a system problem because I really don't want to spend time finding my way around a 'new' DAW at my age. I've ordered a new 1TB SSD (which should be arriving on the 8th) and I intend to mirror my 'C' Drive before uninstalling ALL other apps from the installed Drive. Then I shall just be left with Windows 10 Pro and CbB. Perhaps you can tell me 'best practice' for where my plugins and synths should live and on what type of drive. I am also looking to see what upgrades my Motherboard can take so that I can consider extra and faster RAM; faster USB and even faster CPU. Thanks for staying with me. Truly appreciated !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ward Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 Update : Just thought to load up one of my projects from last year which I put to backup DVD just the other day. It consists of 12x tracks including EZDrummer (unfrozen) and 22x plugins spread accross them. On loading the project, the Performance window read : Audio Processing = up to 6.5% Engine Load = up to 32% Late Buffers = 0 This is what I've been used to in CbB on this PC WITHOUT any Late Buffer glitches. I've played it 4x times over now whilst watching the 'Performance' window and I've not heard anything but the music. My only thought is that each time I've rewound to the begining to hit 'Play', the DVD drive initialises, so is not playing from my 'C' Drive. I've now reloaded it onto my 'C' Drive and playing through for the 2nd time from there, just to eliminate any possibility that there is a problem with the 'C' Drive. FANTASTIC !!! Pristine playback off my 'C' Drive with the 'Performance' window showing the same figures as above. This leads me to what might be a conclusion - the project I'm currently working on has somehow been corrupted. I'm going to put my kettle on Auto-boil and have myself loads of black tea whilst migrating each track to a new project folder and report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeringAmps Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 One question @Chris Ward; why is the project on the C drive? (Maybe the answer is buried in the thread?) You simply cannot expect optimum performance if you are running CbB from only the C drive. When using VSTi’s you have to have 3 drives. C : OS, P; Project ( that’s the cwp file and all audio tracks) S: Samples, in this case all the EZD samples. Anything less and You have “chosen” to make compromises. Consequently your performance will be compromised. It’s really just that simple. t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ward Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 Hi Tom, As you are another big name on these forums, I wouldn't dare argue with your advice, which I shall follow going forward. But I would ask one question. As my previous post mentions, I have just brought a project from last year back onto my 'C' Drive with EZDrummer and 22x plugins active and it has played back cleanly. Why do you think that has been possible ?? And indeed, all 12x projects from last year were created without problem with everything on my 'C' Drive as it is now. I realise that this may sound like I'm dismissing your advice. I'M NOT - honest Guv !!! I shall do as you advise as soon as I get hold of another SSD. I'm just puzzled with the situation and hope you might have an answer to that. Please don't walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ward Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 Update : After copying track by track to a new Project folder, complete with identical plugins, I was at first, ready to light up the sky with celebration fireworks. Sad to say, my euphoria didn't last longer than 5x or so playbacks. With each replay the Late Buffers started climbing, sometimes inaudible and other times audible. After 15x playbacks I noticed that the Late Buffer count was sometimes less and sometimes more. I then had Cakewalk throw another spanner in the works when I tried to replace an instance of Guitar Rig. It just 'disappeared' from my system. I thought instead to insert Guitar Rig 5 in its place. I found that it had disappeared also. I asked Cakewalk Plugin Manager to rescan for them. After getting a fair way through the rescan, I got a message saying that the scan couldn't be completed and aborted - TWICE. At this point my system crashed. I was so frustrated that I didn't save a Crash Dump. That was yesterday. Today I have been persevering and running both my original project and the copy. Both are giving much the same in Late Buffers and again, sometimes audible and other times not and sometimes even ZERO Late Buffers. Well, the process of making a copy has proved that it was not the original project that had somehow corrupted, so not a waste of time. I am now wating for a local IT engineer to call me to make an appointment. I'm going with the premise that my computer needs a full clear down and whatever upgrades my motherboard can take. This will include extra drives to house the app, VSTs and samples separately as Tom Deering and others on different posts recommend. If it is found that my motherboard can't accomodate sufficient upgrade to be worth the trouble, I will be knocking on Scan's door and getting them to help me spec a new audio only PC with Windows stripped down to the bare essentials. All other heavyweight apps that I have for my photography, digital painting and graphic design will stay where they are. I will load CbB onto the new PC with my VSTs and plugins and continue with my Steinberg UR44 as the interface, making sure that the latest firmware and drivers are installed. If I still get Late Buffers on a more powerful PC with nothing but Windows and CbB on board, I might make one more change by replacing (or trying out a friend's alternative) interface. And if that doesn't do it, then I have to make the very last move and move to a different DAW. (ughhh - that hurts). Why should I go to this great expense (and trouble) ?? My age !! I want to go to the great recording studio in the sky with at least one No.1 hit under my belt. But there is another good reason too, which is quite unselfish. It is to inform any newbies to this forum of the ever present issues with home recording and a limited bank balance. My lengthy posts were designed to give as much information as to my struggles of late. And remember, all 12x of last year's songs were tracked, mixed and mastered with as many tracks, VSTs unfrozen and the same number and array of plugins on the same system WITHOUT any Late Buffer glitches. Had there been, I would have been on this forum much sooner !! What would also be of great assistance and education to others is if you eminent contributors to this forum were to each make a final post on this thread, stating your PC and interface credentials (I know some of you have them stated in your footers - but let's make it easier to compare) and describing how many audio tracks (at least 5x) and how many unfrozen VSTs (at least 4x) you were able to put on a project before audible Late Buffer strikes became evident. The moderators might even decide to put the spec on a dedicated thread , clearly positioned on the Home page. That way any uninitiated music-maker like me can quickly ascertain what they can expect from their system. There could also be a similar thread informing us of best practice when tracking in CbB (or the upcoming Sonar) so as to keep our expectations in check throughout the process. For instance - track each instrument in a separate project before bringing them together for mixdown and mastering etc. That would be hugely helpful. I shall now chase the IT engineer to check out my system before deciding on which path I have to take, so I probably won't be adding further posts for some weeks. I shall continue to look in just to see if anyone has had any new thoughts. Thanks a whole bunch to everyone that gave up their time to contribute to this thread. Heartfelt !!! When I have further news, I shall post here if the thread is still open. Otherwise I shall start another. Have a happy and healthy 2024. 🖐️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeringAmps Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 @Chris Wardwere the 12x projects created on this exact C drive? I have no explanation for why suddenly a working system just “gives up”. Unless of course something is “up” with the drive, or the hardware. t BTW, if you place the @ in front of the member’s name, they will get a notification that they have been “mentioned” in a post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ward Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 @DeeringAmps Hi Tom, Yes, all of last year's 12x songs created on the same SSD. The computer is 4 - ish years old (my memory is failing) and I admit to thinking more and more that it is a system issue as you just mention. I've got to get a techie in soonest. Thanks again for your input. To all who may still be reading this thread, I believe that all threads need to come to a conclusion, otherwise they are a bit pointless. The problems we have, have to be solved and revealed to all interested. Hence why I'm not giving up, whatever the cost and WILL come back and let you know of the outcome. In the meantime, my request (if you all have the time) to upload your system details and create a 'test' project with VSTs and audio tracks with plugins until you encounter audible Late Buffer glitches, would be a very telling and therefore helpful process. Thanks Tom and all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Sorice Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 @Chris Ward, I suggest you contact @Jim Roseberry and discuss having him build you a new PC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ward Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 @Sal Sorice Hi Sal, I'm in the UK and thinking he's in the US ?? I will send him a post though. Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ward Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 @Craig Anderton @Starship Krupa @msmcleod @DeeringAmps @Jim Roseberry @Sal Sorice Gentlemen, I have made copies of my latest LatencyMon readings and before just uploading them onto this thread and taking up space, would ask you if any of you would have a few spare minutes to view the pages and let me know of any glaring issue that's causing me my problems. Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 On 1/3/2024 at 6:59 AM, DeeringAmps said: You simply cannot expect optimum performance if you are running CbB from only the C drive. When using VSTi’s you have to have 3 drives. I haven't found this to be true in my case, at least as long as said C drive is an SSD. VSTi's like SampleTank and UVI Falcon that need to load up large samples may make it more of an issue, but even then, everything loads into RAM by the time it's ready for playback. At this point, I don't know WHAT the heck is going on with Chris' rig. The Steinberg is a fine, industry standard interface, and his system specs leave mine in the dust. The various issues point to maybe problems with either RAM or possibly SSD. The other apps he runs are dissimilar from audio software in that their projects don't stream a lot of data from memory. One thing that comes to mind is that as he's doing the things that he does, at first the system is using areas of the RAM that might be okay, but then as RAM use increases, with more plug-ins in memory (Cakewalk also stores its undo states in RAM), areas of RAM that are having trouble start to fill up and cause problems. Or possibly Windows is starting to use its memory swap file in an area of the disk that is having trouble. Similar problem. Running a memory test might flush something out. Running the SSD manufacturer's diag software might also be of value. To fix RAM issues, sometimes all that's needed is to pull the sticks out and put them back in. The contacts can get dirty and therefore intermittent. Reseating them scrubs the crud off. If you're not blowing the dust out from time to time, this becomes more likely. With drive problems, back that sucker up and get it out of there ASAP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Sorice Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Chris, not sure about Jim Roseberry shipping to UK - can't hurt to ask. I also think @Starship Krupa has an idea worth pursuing to see if RAM is the culprit. I had a bad stick of RAM wreak havoc on my system about a year ago. I used Memtest86 (free) to diagnose. You can check it out here: https://www.memtest86.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Anderton Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, Sal Sorice said: I had a bad stick of RAM wreak havoc on my system about a year ago. This ^^^ And SSDs aren't perfect either, with some better than others. What you may be seeing is the dying gasps of a storage device. Things getting worse the more you use the system may also mean the issue is thermal-related. Have you dusted off the insider of your computer and cleaned dust off the fan blades lately? Are the fans still rotating? I know, stupid questions but you never know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Bleuwart Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 About Steinberg UR44: I had some problems with their latest 2.0.4 drivers, and have to revert back to a previous version to have stable performance. Currently I run driver 2.0.3.1 - 17-01-20, on Windows 11 without issues. Have a nice day ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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