Chris Ward

Hi All, After much investigation and various tests AND YOUR HELP & GUIDANCE, I have concluded that the cause of my problem has definitely been Soundtoys Superplate and Little Radiator. I feel it is worth making my Last Post in this thread by listing all the things that I've learnt along the way. 1. Cakewalk is a sound platform able to record, mix and master to a professional standard (subject to your skills). 2. Get to know your rig's abilities quickly - create 'test' projects and start loading them up with VSTs, tracks and plugins and see at what point it 'falls over'. Don't expect the impossible. 3. Think hard about what latest changes you have made to your hardware or software. 4. Be MOST suspicious of newly added plugins. 5. Never buy a plugin without testing it by way of a free trial, no matter how good a reputation the company has. 6. Be methodical in your investigation and take plenty of notes along the way. You don't want to go around in circles. 7. Turn to the CbB Forums for experienced advice and always be polite. 8. Never dismiss any advice. Investigate all. 9. Show evidence of cause of problem to help others. 10. Thank all responders for giving their time and knowledge - you may need them again !!! Page 1 of this thread : @Craig Anderton and @Resonant Serpent Beware of errant graphics card drivers. See extract fromThe Huge Book Of Sonar Tips and Tricks. @Starship Krupa Install LatencyMon (free). Tweak BIOS settings (if you know what you're doing !!) and Power Plans. Refer to Pete Brown's guide to tuning Windows for DAW use. @John Vere "It's always a plugin". Install Samsung Magician if you have Samsung SSDs to see condition of your Drive. @Mr No Name Try out Waves StudioRack (free) to reduce plugin load on your CPU. @Craig Anderton Open CbB in 'Safe' mode without plugins and see if the app runs without L/Buffers. If so, start adding them one by one to find the culprit. @msmcleod Great various tips (see his post). @Craig Anderton Refer to previous post on this forum regarding Soundtoys Superplate. @DeeringAmps Stretch to 3x SSDs if you can - 'C' Drive for OS and Cakewalk plus plugins; 'D' Drive for project files; 'E' Drive for samples. THERE HAVE BEEN MANY MORE RESPONDERS, BUT IF I LIST THEM ALL, YOU WOULD FALL ASLEEP !!! SINCERE THANKS TO ALL. Evidence & Testing : @limpet and any other interested party. Intel i7 (12x core) @3.7GHz 32Gb RAM Win 10 Pro Steinberg UR44 Interface NVidea GeForce RTX 2070 Problem project consists of 4x VSTs; 5x Audio tracks; 11x plugins total (including Superplate and Little Radiator). With 'Play' button stopped and at 96 Samples / Aud. Process 11% / Eng. Load 50% = Late Buffers soaring 20-25 every second. (Expected at such a low Sample Rate). At 2048 Samples (max) / Aud. Process 7% / E.Load 30-45% = 2x L/Buffers. Sometimes they would keep climbing at a rate of 1 per 30secs even after the engine had stopped. With VSTs frozen and all plugins disabled @2048 Samples / Aud. Process 0.19% / E. Load 1.3% = No L/Buffers. Engage Nectar 4, Silk Vocal & Superplate on Lead Vox only Aud. Proc. 2.7% / E. Load 26% = 2x L/Buffers. Opened a 2022 project with 3x VSTs 'live', 12x Audio tracks and 69x plugins total (NO Soundtoys) @ 2048 Samples Aud. Proc. 56% / Eng. Load 50.8% = No L/Buffers. Able to get down to 348 Samples with No L/Buffers. Back to my current project with all plugins deleted and VSTs 'live' At (min) 32 Samples in 'Stable' mode (11msec roundtrip) = No L/Buffers As above in 'Standard' mode (6msec roundtrip) = No L/Buffers As above in 'Low Latency' mode (5msec roundtrip) = No L/Buffers As above with Waves MV2 added on 4x Vox tracks = No L/Buffers You will have noted from my earlier posts that I went to the extent of creating 'test' projects and copy/pasting each individual track into them. Whenever I added either of the 2x Soundtoys plugins, the L/Buffers started striking - even if they were the ONLY plugin onboard. I tried deleting the plugins from my problem project and loaded it with 60x plugins from my old 2022 project and had no L/Buffers. This proved my latest project was not corrupted and could handle many more plugins AS LONG AS THEY WEREN'T SUPERPLATE OR LITTLE RADIATOR. I did far too many tests to list here and the one common denominator that caused Late Buffers (even if they were the only plugin onboard), were the Soundtoys mentioned. My Effects Rack from the same company works fine. The above data serves both as evidence of the culprits but also as a reference as to what CbB can support at various Sample Rates. If you are on a lesser rig, the suggestion would be to record your VSTs individually in a temporary project to a metronome, refine it if necessary in Piano Roll view and commit to it by bouncing down before bringing it in to your 'master' project file. You can always save your temporary VST folder by another name in case you want to come back to it to refine further. Do this for each VST only if necessary. Send multiple audio tracks to a Bus if they use the same plugins and settings or use Waves Studio Rack. If you have a similar rig as mine, then you can see from the above data how far it can take you. I believe I could have loaded more tracks and plugins from my findings. But in the words of @Byron Dickens Keep It Simple S...... 🤣 I shall wait until the latest version of Superplate is released and get it on free trial to test it out thoroughly before making a decision to buy. I shall also wait to see what you all say about the imminent new Cakewalk Sonar. I started this post having no friends (maybe 😜), but at the end of it I feel I can count all you responders as my friend. Thanks a whole lot, each and every one of you. I also hope this helps new Cakewalkers with similar problems. Take care all and Happy Music Making. 🖐️

ME : "You haven't answered why the VST2 version is not installing." THEM : "There's no difference between VST2 and VST3 versions, they're just different formats of the identical sound. Because you're using an unsupported host DAW, I'm not sure I can be all that helpful with your DAW issues. I'd suggest reaching out to BandLab instead for issues with your DAW." If only they knew !!!!!!! (I underlined the "different formats"). Why can't they just tell me why the VST2 version isn't installing ??!!! What an incredible brush off. They're now clearly saying it's a DAW issue.

@mettelus @Glenn Stanton @John Vere @ptheisen Gentlemen, thankyou for your continued help !!! My PC Engineer is coming tomorrow to collect my rig and make a backup of my 'C' drive. He will then install a new Samsung 990 Pro NVMe M2 SSD. I have already used Samsung Magician (thanks guys) to ascertain that my existing 'C' Drive is "good". When I get it back on Friday, I will start the task of reinstalling all of my imaging apps and others to the new SSD, leaving ONLY the OS, CbB and Band in a Box on my 'C' as advised. The new SSD will take my plugins and samples, whilst my internal 2Tb Hard Disc will accomodate all my imaging and other apps. Whilst making these changes, I will give great attention also, to going through once again all the helpful fine tuning tips that you have given me in this thread so that I move forward as 'clean' as possible. I will even try installing the VST2 version of Superplate again. I will then report back and hopefully conclude this long thread. Cheers.

Update : Disappointing response from Soundtoys regarding refund - Regarding returns, as per our EULA: You may obtain a refund within 14 days if purchased at the Soundtoys online store, by contacting support@soundtoys.com. Since your last purchase was 54 days ago, no you will not be able to return this product. You can also try downgrading to the previous versions of your OS and DAW that your plug-in previously worked on. You can also try using an officially supported host DAW that we guarantee our software will be compatible with: I cannot offer a timeline for our next release, though it's looking like it should be pretty soon. And there was no response as to why I cannot install the VST2 version as much as I have tried. Cheers.

Update: The Beta version they are suggesting I try is for the NEXT release of Superplate and is not a Beta of the current version I'm using. I think I shall just wait for the official release of the next version as I don't want to upset my install of EffectsRack. Cheers

Hi Folks, I got a response from Soundtoys regarding my issues with Superplate and Little Radiator and they have pointed me to a page of Beta downloads. I have to uninstall the final release and replace with the Beta version WITH THE CAVEAT BELOW !!! "The installers linked to on this page are BETA versions. This means that these builds have not completed full testing by us, and more than likely contain bugs or other incompatibilities. Use of beta versions are at your own risk, which may include the risk of catastrophic issues. If you are not ok with this risk then we recommend you wait for the officially released version. Please visit our beta forum for the latest information - such as known issues - and to provide feedback." Well, I did wait for the officially released version and paid good money for it. I'm not sure if I want to take the risk and just ask for a refund. The polite e-mail they sent also mentioned this : "Just a heads up, Cakewalk is not one of our officially supported host DAWs". Should @Noel Borthwick perhaps pick up the phone to them and press them to be included ?? Seems a bit of a cop out. I now have to go back to them and ask why Effects Rack seems to work. Surely the part of the coding that makes it OK in Cakewalk would be ported over into Superplate. Since I'm not a software programmer, I wouldn't know the answer to that. @rsinger you've not had problems with Echoboy Beta. Is there anyone else who's had experience in going this route?? I worked further on my latest project yesterday with Superplate and Little Radiator removed and had no Late Buffers. All the best.

Update : I've sent a message to Soundtoys and now have to sit back and wait at least 24hrs for a response. If we have to back and forth with messages, this could take some time. In the meantime I thought to open a new 'test' project with 1x audio track and insert Superplate only. Got no Late Buffers even after playing back 3x times. Loaded Little Radiator with it and started getting audible Late Buffers. Deleted Superplate, leaving Little Radiator and still got L/Buffers. Deleted that and put Superplate back on, on its own and now got audible Late Buffers. Pushed the boat out and deleted them. Brought in Soundtoys Effects Rack and loaded it up with 6x effects. Max Engine Load only around 12%. No L/Buffers. Then thought to go further and insert a further 6x instances of Effect Rack, each with only 1x effect. Max Engine Load only up by 1% and no L/Buffers. Played through now several times and always clean. Effect Rack includes the full Radiator which was loaded. Verdict : I can remove Little Radiator as I have the full one and is behaving. Superplate (which is my very recent purchase) is the culprit. So to make it clear and in fairness to Soundtoys, I am not experiencing any Late Buffer glitches with Effect Rack. Superplate is in my sites. Let's see what solution they come back with. Standby.

@Sal Sorice Hi again Sal, Thanks for heads -up on Memtest86. Have downloaded it just now and will run it on Friday when the PC Engineer comes. It's worth doing even though I am now convinced my issue has been with Soundtoys, not only from the thread on this forum, but also from those at KVR and Reditt. I'm now going to attempt chatting with Soundtoys Helpline and will post back with results. @rsinger Thanks for your message too. Cheers.

@Glenn Stanton @John Vere Well, there it is gents. You responded to my post before last, as I was writing the previous post. This issue has indeed already been covered on this Forum with some resolved and some not. But clearly an issue with buggy Soundtoys plugs. They may be amongst the hungrier of plugs John, but clearly the issue is with inherent bugs and lesser to do with the number of plugs in a project. Both of course contribute to Late Buffers one way or another - there's no arguing that. Thankyou guys !!! I shall contact Soundtoys Help Line as my next step and if they steer me towards a bug free condition with their plugs, I will then be judicious in how I use them. Otherwise I now know to dump them. Does this bring us to a resolution with this thread ?? All the best.

Update : I'll take back what I said about Soundtoys plugins wanting to be the only plugins in a mix. In the last hour since my above post, I'm still getting Late Buffer glitches with ONLY the 2x Littla Rad. and Superplate plugins in the project. I strongly believe that it's Soundtoys plugins being the issue after reading through Reddit and KVR Forum threads. Loads of people on different DAWs and either on Windows or Mac have stated the very same issue. Some claim to have overcome them by rolling back to earlier releases or from VST3 back to VST2. Some of you might be thinking at this point that the simplest resolution is to take Soundtoys off my PC. I might well end up going that easy route. Their selection of plugins are covered by other plugin companies after all. However, that route leaves me feeling it's a bit of a cop out. If there is a solution I can find (it might be what I have read in those other forums), I want to be able to come back here and state it, in order to help Cakewalkers. It's the very least I can do considering the time you kind folk have given to my problem. The fact that I removed plugins from my current 'problem' project and loaded up with 60x plugins from yesteryear is good proof, since none of them were Soundtoys. I could even create a new test project and load up VSTs and any audio tracks and start filling up with plugins other than Soundtoys as a further means of evidence. I just always like to come to an understanding and a solution, but for now I am focussed on this route. But please give your own experiences with Soundtoys. Cheers

Hi to all and huge, huge thanks for keeping up with this thread. Your patience and willingness to help, make sticking with CbB more of a no brainer !!! Over the last 2x days and having followed all your hints and tips and thoughts, and with a painstakingly methodical approach, I finally discovered that SOUNDTOYS plugins seem to be the cause of all my recent issues on my current project. @John Vere you said it in the plainest of language "..... it's always a plugin...." and to @msmcleod who pointed to another thread about Soundtoys Superplate (which I purchased about a month ago) that steered me to this revelation. You will see from one of my earlier threads that to start my investigation, I loaded up the 60x plugins I had successfully used in my very first recording from yesteryear into my CURRENT problematic project. With 4x 'live' VSTs carrying a few of the 60x plugins and the 5x audio tracks hosting the remaining, the project sailed through 6-7 times over with no Late Buffer strikes and therefore no glitches. The Engine Load maxed at around 50% and the Audio Processing was around 30%. This was also after experimenting with smaller Sample Rates as I wanted to find out where my rig would topple over. I got down to 384 Samples. Feeling encouraged, I left it till Sunday gone to start the next stage. This was to load my current project with the plugins I had started to use on it and do so one by one, playing the song through at least twice every time. After loading the 1st plugin and finding no Late Buffer strikes, I deleted it and even closed down BbB before restarting it and loading the next plugin. I did that till I had gone through the 11x Plugins one at a time. When I got to Soundtoys Superplate (being the only plugin loaded), I got a Late Buffer strike at a max Engine Load of 962.0%. The same with Soundtoys Little Radiator - but wait !!! Something told me to recheck my Sample Rate in my ASIO driver. It was still set to 384 Samples and keeping in mind the other fellow who had issues with Superplate, I increased the sample rate to the max 2048. Even now as I'm writing this, I am playing the project through with only Superplate loaded and at 2048 Samples. On its 2nd playthrough and zero Late Buffers. Audio Proc. = 1.9% (max 8.14%, Engine Load 10.2% (max 15%). What's wrong with that you would say. 2048 Samples when you're in Playback mode shouldn't matter. Lowest Sample rates are only necessary in Recording mode. And so I have started loading 2x instances of Little Radiator and iZotope Nectar 4 and lo and behold, with Audio Processing at 3.8% (max 17.6%), Engine Load 19% (max 24.7%) until I hit a Late Buffer at 170% max. SO, it's not a simple case of Soundtoys plugins being the problem, but what other plugins you add them to on your project. Look, 2x instances of Little Rad, 1x of Superplate and 1x of Nectar 4. That should not be demanding on my rig and the proof is there with the Engine Load count at a low 24% until it hits a Late Buffer at 170.0% max. I have now deleted Nectar 4, leaving 2x instances of Little Rad and 1x of Superplate (both Soundtoys plugins) and played through 3x times with NO Late Buffer glitches. So Soundtoys seems to like to behave as a Cuckoo in the nest. They don't like to share with others (I have to be careful here as I don't want to be had for libel). I have now added a Waves plugin and played through with no Late Buffer strikes. I have now added a Sonitus plugin on top and got a L/Buffer strike. I deleted it and went BACK to 3x Soundtoys and 1x Waves plugins. This time I did get a Late Buffer (my head's spinning). I have now deleted the Waves and am left with 3x Soundtoys. NO Late Buffers. Oh heck - wait ...... on 2nd and 3rd play through I got a Late Buffer strike each time ........ and on 4th - 7th time NO Late Buffers again. Oh heck - wait again ... with the play engine stopped, I've hit another Late Buffer - and now 3x and slowly climbing !!!! Have I arrived at the cause ??? Do I have resolution ??? It's still a little up in the air on account of my paragraph above. I honestly thought that when I got up today to write this post, it was going to be my last - the conclusion, all the investigation was done - but now, perhaps not. I do believe I'm very close though. I would ask all contributors and readers of this thread to post here as to whether or not you have the same issues with Soundtoys plugins. This is important to help readers of this thread. I shall now go to see if Soundtoys has a forum and poke around there. PLEASE FELLAS - post here any experiences you have had with Soundtoys - good or bad. Cheers.

@limpet Hi Keith, Perhaps I should be the last one to answer your post because I'm the one who started this one - but ...... Late Buffers are definitely the cause of audio glitches. In my recent experience this happens when Cakewalk's Engine Load exceeds 100% Max. The second it does, you hear a glitch. If you have read through this thread from the beginning, you will note that over the past years I have been using Sonar (now CbB and soon to be Sonar again), I have been able to track and mix projects with VSTs unfrozen and 60x plugins going and that was on a lesser machine !! Everyone who has responded to my initial post are extremely knowleagable folk who have 'grown up' with Sonar and have FAR more insight into its mysteries. Hopefully they will help you with more detail than I, but what I have said above should answer your questions. I am now coming to a sort of ending to this thread (but it only starts another !!!!), so please stayed tuned whilst I continue on the following post. Cheers

It's 02:30 in the morning here in the UK and I'm ready to hit the sack. However, after a marathon session of troubleshooting my problem, I do believe that I have come to the solution with the help of you all. There's too much to explain now, so I'll take a nap and give you my findings tomorrow (later today !!!!). G'night.

@John Vere (I got the hang of this @ thing). You couldn't depress me John. I've lived my whole life not having high expectations of anything or anyone. It has served me well, as I've never really been dissapointed about anything !! Well, I've spent yesterday and today loading up my current, troublesome project with 60x of the plugins that I used on my reference project of yesteryear (which had no Late Buffer problems). I even added duplicate backing vox tracks to accomodate them. And so, with 15x tracks of which 4x are 'open' VSTs and the rest audio, I can tell you (after playing through 30x times) that I have not had any Late Buffer strikes. The 'Performance' window tells me the following : At 2048 Samples for playback - Audio Processing = 16.5% (Max 34.48%) Engine Load = 27% average (Max 37.8%) These were very close to the same results I was getting when yesterday and the day before, I played through the project of yesteryear. This immediately confirms 2x things. Firstly, my current problematic project does NOT have a resident bug or is not corrupted (even though it refused to open twice the other day). Perhaps it was a bad coincidence. Secondly that the 60x plugins now on my current project in place of the 11x I originally had, CAN be handled comfortably at 2048 Samples on this machine spec. I don't think I'm sticking my neck out when I say that, since I have played it back at least 30x times with the 'Performance' window constantly giving me the same figures within 1-2% each playback. SO, folks, I am now going to delete all 60x of yesteryears plugins, save the project in its pluin-free state and start putting back, one by one, the 11x plugins I had initially put onto the project. I will play through with each plugin inserted and jot down the performance stats. If I don't experience what I was experiencing before, then I'll be damned, because that will mean there is no obvious solution to the issue I've had !!!! I will work on that now and update later tonight or tomorrow. It's great being retired and single - all the time to myself. (Now THAT'S selfish !!!) Cheers

Hey Byron - The recording I refer to was my first ever - about 15yrs ago (or even more) and as a beginner I was just throwing the kitchen sink into every track just to see what it would do. I'm different now. Thanks. And Glenn is quite right - I too have seen many a Pro's video sending tracks through umpteen plugs for reasons that MY ears don't always hear. But that's not me criticising them - they know far, far better than me and I'm sure that their ears are also far better tuned. I did say I wouldn't add more to this thread - but whilst here to acknowledge the above posts, that mix I did from yesteryear was me playing it through at 2048 (max) Samples. An hour ago when I felt like playing it through again, I had left my ASIO driver at 32 Samples and boy, did it rack up the Late Buffers. So at 2048 I will start adding the plugins I used back then and see how many my current project can take. When it starts to glitch, I can make comparisons and then start replacing with the plugins I started with on this current project, to find the culprit. That would be my conclusion. The solution would most likely be better as another thread - what to expect on a given system/rig and how to go about tracking and mixing to overcome the limitations. That would be very interesting because I'm fairly sure there would be a whole lot of different ways coming from each of you. Cheers

I held down the Shift key to open in Safe Mode. Success.

Hi folks. This may be the last post in this thread and my apologies if it's going to be another long one. Even as John Vere was coming back with certainty that it's always a plugin that is to blame, I was already deleting all the plugins inserted in the VSTs and audio channels (even though I had already done this some days back on his earlier advice - see earlier posts). With them all gone, and since the start of this thread, my Steinberg proprietry driver set at 2048 Samples, I started playing back. My 4x VSTs in this project were 'live' (being played through). ZERO Late Buffers and max Engine Load around 45 - 50%. I then started to reduce my Sample rate in order to be methodical. Amazingly, I got it all the way to the lowest available setting of 32 Samples and at Steinberg's "Stable" condition. Each time with ZERO Late Buffers. Fantastic - but no plugins. I then decided to push things further and set the ASIO driver to Steinberg's "Standard" setting and still at 32 Samples. Still ZERO Late Buffers - with no plugins. I pushed again and set the driver to Steinberg's "Low Latency" setting and still ZERO Late Buffers, although the hit on Engine Load was now creeping up to 90% (but roundtrip latency to the lowest possible with the UR44 of 5Msec). I played the project through 6x times to make sure it was real. At this point, I thought to close the project and NOT save, in order to get back to the earlier state with plugins inserted. This was so as to remind myself what plugins they were. Once I had noted them down, I was intending to replace them with as many of the plugins I had used on the last year's project I had mentioned, which had 60+ plugins and 2x VSTs all in an 'open' state (being played through). You will remember me questioning how that could be (no Late Buffers encountered), when on the same system in the current problem project, nothing but Late Buffers. John Vere's kind and diplomatic response 2x posts ago, urging me to methodically investigate my plugins, because it would only take 1x rogue plugin to cause the problem, was fully noted. And so I closed the project to return to its earlier state. When I went to re-open it, CbB got as far as saying "nearly there", when up came the window of death telling me that "CbB has stopped working and will try and find a solution". It didn't. So I thought to remain calm and reboot the PC. I tried to open the project again and a 3rd time and got the same message !!! I then opened my 'copy' of this project, removed all plugins (which is where I got to before) and played through, expecting to get zero Late Buffers as before. To my surprise. the Engine Load spiked to a max of 9719.5% - yes that's right 9719.5%. On the next 4x plays, it decided to return zero Late Buffers and Maxing the Engine Load to around 90%. I have long thought that my problem has had something to do with this specific project being corrupted from the beginning. Is this proof of it, or are we to say that it's just unfortunate coincidence ?? The only reason I haven't smashed up my house is because I had the forsight to make a copy when I thought to open a new 'test' project and singly copy and paste the tracks and insert new instances of the same VSTs and plugins to make that check. I have now made yet another copy to remain with 2x. So now my thoughts are not only on what was causing my incessant Late Buffer strikes, but also on what caused the crash and what is stopping me from re-opening that original project. I WILL LEAVE THIS THREAD OPEN FOR 24 - 48HRS in case any of you helpful souls have some guidance on the latter. Otherwise, my initial problem is up in the air for now. Between now and the end of the week when the Engineer calls round, I will stop adding to the lengthy 3x pages and concentrate instead on continuing to do what I was planning to do on my copy project - start loading it up with the same 60x plugins I used in last years trouble free project to prove if John Vere's (and others) suspicions are correct. Only then can I offer a conclusion or you good folks, a solution to this thread, which as I said previously, all threads must have to be of any use to others. I guess my middle name is Bad Luck ?? Cheers.

Update on the plugins matter : I have removed all the plugins on this current project (as I've done before last week) and whilst the Audio Processing and Engine Load figures dropped noticeably, there was a spike at one point on the Engine Load which shot the percentage figure to 227.2% Max, resulting in a Late Buffer. This has been the case over and again these last 2x weeks. And bear in mind that the old project I played through last night had 60+ plugins as live inserts plus 'live' VSTs and the Audio Processing up to 35% and Engine Load up to 50% with no Late Buffers. In other words, the load on Processing and Engine does not necessarily correlate to my experiencing a Late Buffer or not. Those figures can be high as on last year's project and give no Late Buffers, whilst being low on this current project can give me, on average, 7x Late Buffers. I'm beginning to wonder if it has anything to do with Memory Paging, but don't really know anything about it. How can it be attributable to one specific audio project. I shall ask the Engineer next Friday. I did download and then run Samsung Magician last night and the result on my 'C' Drive was "GOOD". Last night when I got a 'FAIL' on LatencyMon for the first time, it was after running it for 4hrs plus. All previous 'PASSES' were achieved after running for 30mins - 1Hr. Now, I have mentioned earlier in this thread that I can stop the engine and with my cursor resting in the 'Performance' window, watch the Late Buffers count continue to rise, sometimes by a single unit every 30mins and occasionally shoot up at the rate of 20-25 per second. The more these experiences run through my head, the more I'm inclined to think this is an issue with computer memory, whether physical RAM or 'virtual' Paging memory. I can't wait to see what we find in a few days time. NOTE: LatencyMon has been running for 52mins now and I am showing all clear again. Is it the case that the longer it is run, the more likely it will move into the red on everyone's PC ?? Cheers.

Hi John, Thanks for your latest. That mention in the past did not go past me and I am double checking right now what new plugins I may have bought since last year. Not many is my reckoning. Nectar 3 upgraded to Nectar 4; Waves Silk Vocal; Soundtoys Superplate. As I only have 11x plugins in my current project, that investigation won't take long.

I ran LatencyMon for 4hrs 15mins this evening and for the first time, having run the software over 20x times in the last 6x days or so with green light, I got a 'fail'. Is this because I have been playing this damn song over and over and over again ?? Is my SSD being accessed at the same memory zone each time ?? I'm leaving it alone now until the drive is safely mirrored next Friday. I've been clearing out unecessary projects as well and came accross one of the songs I did last year without glitches. It's got EZD, AmpleGuitar, ManyBass VSTs 'open' (still in midi) with plugins on them and 12 x audio tracks with 2 - 4 plugs on each, plus my Master Bus with 4x plugs and 2x send Busses with 4x plugins between them. That's 69x plugins in all and the damn song plays cleanly 5x times over with Audio Processing maxing @ 56.51% and Engine Load maxing at 50.8%. Yet here I am on the same computer playing my latest project and having to 'bake' my 4x VSTs to bounced tracks as well as my 5x audio tracks, also bounced in order to bake them, before I can get zero Late Buffers. This gets weirder and weirder.

Hi everyone, I have only JUST noticed a pile of responses/additions to this thread on page 2 and can't think why I haven't spotted them before. So, gentlemen all, please don't think me rude for not acknowledging each one. I DO SO NOW !!! All messages were helpful/informative and have helped me focus tighter on what I need to investigate in more detail. RAM and disc issues is what I shall have my Techie look at when he comes next Friday 12th. I expect to receive another SSD on Monday. I will task him with mirroring my 'C' Drive to safeguard all my installed apps and associated folders/files. I will then ask him to uninstall everything from my existing drive other than Win 10, CbB and Band in a Box, as well as check the drive for any faults or failings/decline. He has already read through this thread (even though I didn't tell him it was CbB forum ??!!!) and has also checked possible upgrades for my motherboard. Unfortunately, Intel have stopped making the i9 chip for the one I have and therefore the only upgrade possible is RAM. What seems logical to me is to go this route of checking 'C' Drive and RAM for failings, increase RAM anyway and see what improves (or not), BEFORE splashing out on a new Audio PC for CbB and Band in a Box only. What I have been doing yesterday and today is play around with the 'duplicate' I made of my current project. This involved freezing ALL tracks, both VSTs and audio, and noted 'Performance' readings in CbB. I then proceeded to 'bounce to track' the VSTs only and noted the readings. I then bounced the audio tracks as well and noted the readings. I then closed the project without saving and reopened so that I was back to my VSTs being 'open' and instead disabled ALL the plugins (some on the VSTs and others on the audio tracks. THIS IS WHERE I STRUCK A HAPPY PLACE. Audio Processing shot down to 0.5% (max 3.03%), Engine Load down to 2.9% (max 6.8%) and, of course, zero Late Buffers. What has completely surprised me is that the relatively few plugins (11x) take a greater hit on my rig than the 'open' VSTs !!! There was very little difference between ALL VSTs and audio tracks frozen then bounced to track and then deleting the originals compared to leaving the VSTs 'open' and disabling the plugins. (This could well be pointing to my 32Gb of RAM as being the culprit. If any of you are interested in seeing the details of my findings, let me know and I will upload them. They may be helpful to others who are having similar issues and can act as a system comparison. So, blowing out all the crap from inside the box; re-seating my RAM; checking RAM and drive for failings; increasing RAM to 64 or 128Gb; double checking my CbB, VSTs and samples are where they should be; downloading and running Samsung Magician; plus all the other tips you have so kindly suggested will all be undertaken. James Hook has just commented on LatencyMon as I'm writing this - thanks James. Sometime after next Friday when new RAM is added as the only upgrade possible on this machine, I will post an update. I have to say guys, you are an absolutely terrific bunch of helpers. A thousand thanks to you all !!! All the very best.

@Craig Anderton @Starship Krupa @msmcleod @DeeringAmps @Jim Roseberry @Sal Sorice Gentlemen, I have made copies of my latest LatencyMon readings and before just uploading them onto this thread and taking up space, would ask you if any of you would have a few spare minutes to view the pages and let me know of any glaring issue that's causing me my problems. Many thanks.

@Sal Sorice Hi Sal, I'm in the UK and thinking he's in the US ?? I will send him a post though. Many thanks.

@DeeringAmps Hi Tom, Yes, all of last year's 12x songs created on the same SSD. The computer is 4 - ish years old (my memory is failing) and I admit to thinking more and more that it is a system issue as you just mention. I've got to get a techie in soonest. Thanks again for your input. To all who may still be reading this thread, I believe that all threads need to come to a conclusion, otherwise they are a bit pointless. The problems we have, have to be solved and revealed to all interested. Hence why I'm not giving up, whatever the cost and WILL come back and let you know of the outcome. In the meantime, my request (if you all have the time) to upload your system details and create a 'test' project with VSTs and audio tracks with plugins until you encounter audible Late Buffer glitches, would be a very telling and therefore helpful process. Thanks Tom and all.

Update : After copying track by track to a new Project folder, complete with identical plugins, I was at first, ready to light up the sky with celebration fireworks. Sad to say, my euphoria didn't last longer than 5x or so playbacks. With each replay the Late Buffers started climbing, sometimes inaudible and other times audible. After 15x playbacks I noticed that the Late Buffer count was sometimes less and sometimes more. I then had Cakewalk throw another spanner in the works when I tried to replace an instance of Guitar Rig. It just 'disappeared' from my system. I thought instead to insert Guitar Rig 5 in its place. I found that it had disappeared also. I asked Cakewalk Plugin Manager to rescan for them. After getting a fair way through the rescan, I got a message saying that the scan couldn't be completed and aborted - TWICE. At this point my system crashed. I was so frustrated that I didn't save a Crash Dump. That was yesterday. Today I have been persevering and running both my original project and the copy. Both are giving much the same in Late Buffers and again, sometimes audible and other times not and sometimes even ZERO Late Buffers. Well, the process of making a copy has proved that it was not the original project that had somehow corrupted, so not a waste of time. I am now wating for a local IT engineer to call me to make an appointment. I'm going with the premise that my computer needs a full clear down and whatever upgrades my motherboard can take. This will include extra drives to house the app, VSTs and samples separately as Tom Deering and others on different posts recommend. If it is found that my motherboard can't accomodate sufficient upgrade to be worth the trouble, I will be knocking on Scan's door and getting them to help me spec a new audio only PC with Windows stripped down to the bare essentials. All other heavyweight apps that I have for my photography, digital painting and graphic design will stay where they are. I will load CbB onto the new PC with my VSTs and plugins and continue with my Steinberg UR44 as the interface, making sure that the latest firmware and drivers are installed. If I still get Late Buffers on a more powerful PC with nothing but Windows and CbB on board, I might make one more change by replacing (or trying out a friend's alternative) interface. And if that doesn't do it, then I have to make the very last move and move to a different DAW. (ughhh - that hurts). Why should I go to this great expense (and trouble) ?? My age !! I want to go to the great recording studio in the sky with at least one No.1 hit under my belt. But there is another good reason too, which is quite unselfish. It is to inform any newbies to this forum of the ever present issues with home recording and a limited bank balance. My lengthy posts were designed to give as much information as to my struggles of late. And remember, all 12x of last year's songs were tracked, mixed and mastered with as many tracks, VSTs unfrozen and the same number and array of plugins on the same system WITHOUT any Late Buffer glitches. Had there been, I would have been on this forum much sooner !! What would also be of great assistance and education to others is if you eminent contributors to this forum were to each make a final post on this thread, stating your PC and interface credentials (I know some of you have them stated in your footers - but let's make it easier to compare) and describing how many audio tracks (at least 5x) and how many unfrozen VSTs (at least 4x) you were able to put on a project before audible Late Buffer strikes became evident. The moderators might even decide to put the spec on a dedicated thread , clearly positioned on the Home page. That way any uninitiated music-maker like me can quickly ascertain what they can expect from their system. There could also be a similar thread informing us of best practice when tracking in CbB (or the upcoming Sonar) so as to keep our expectations in check throughout the process. For instance - track each instrument in a separate project before bringing them together for mixdown and mastering etc. That would be hugely helpful. I shall now chase the IT engineer to check out my system before deciding on which path I have to take, so I probably won't be adding further posts for some weeks. I shall continue to look in just to see if anyone has had any new thoughts. Thanks a whole bunch to everyone that gave up their time to contribute to this thread. Heartfelt !!! When I have further news, I shall post here if the thread is still open. Otherwise I shall start another. Have a happy and healthy 2024. 🖐️