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Morten Saether

[CLOSED] 2020.10 Early Access 3 [Updated 5-Nov-2020]

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...So then, what if an articulation is conditional on two conditions?

Following from my above example: If for the legato articulation to be called, both the pedal (CC 64) must be "down" (127) and the note(s) velocity must be with a range of, say, 0-39. Is there a way to map one of these new articulations thusly?  Is this where the Transform section comes in? And what/where is this done if so, in the In sub-section or Out sub-section?

Edited by winkpain

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11 minutes ago, winkpain said:

...So then, what if an articulation is conditional on two conditions?

Following from my above example: If for the legato articulation to be called both the pedal (CC 64) must be "down" (127) and the note(s) velocity must be with a range of, say, 0-39. Is there a way to map one of these new articulations thusly?  Is this where the Transform section comes in? And what/where is this done if so in the In sub-section or Out sub-section?

Just to make sure I understand what your synth responds to.  For the articulation to trigger, it needs to receive a CC64 127 event....  but it will only work for those notes whose velocities fall between 0 and 39.

Which VSTi or synth are you using that responds to both CC64 and notes with velocities between 0 and 39?

For the given articulation, you would still have to have the two entries under "Generate New MIDI Events" for the CC64 events to actually generate the CC64 events.  Then in the same articulation you would have to have an entry under "Transform Existing MIDI events" that maps all velocities from 0 to 127 to 0 to 39

I hope my understanding of what you're asking is correct.

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33 minutes ago, Promidi said:

Just to make sure I understand what your synth responds to.  For the articulation to trigger, it needs to receive a CC64 127 event....  but it will only work for those notes whose velocities fall between 0 and 39.

Which VSTi or synth are you using that responds to both CC64 and notes with velocities between 0 and 39?

For the given articulation, you would still have to have the two entries under "Generate New MIDI Events" for the CC64 events to actually generate the CC64 events.  Then in the same articulation you would have to have an entry under "Transform Existing MIDI events" that maps all velocities from 0 to 127 to 0 to 39

I hope my understanding of what you're asking is correct.

I use mostly Cinesamples in Kontakt for orchestral instruments. They have many ways to map articulations within an instrument, but for my example I am using their strings "Velocity map". It is set up as shown in the attached (2nd) image. Velocity ranges simply call on the various articulation samples (in their "Articulations" patches), and when using these, velocities no longer have any effect on "volume" of the notes.

I have set up my Cakewalk Articulation map as shown in the other attached (1st) image. I think this is working, but I don't quite understand what the In, Out, and Offset settings in the Transform section mean exactly. BUT it is working!

CW articulation map.JPG

CS Velocity map.JPG

Edited by winkpain

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Correction:  For the (Cinesamples) record, Velocity still effects volume of notes played in Legato (standard) mode in the above setup.

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"In" is the incoming MIDI event - the channel range, the lowest velocity, the highest velocity, the lowest note, the highest note which is "acceptable."

"Out" is the MIDI event that goes out if the incoming event is acceptable.

"Offset" says how much each parameter must be changed. You can opt to move events 2 channels higher, or lower. You can change the note number, you can change the velocity, you can change a CC's value. If the checkbox is checked, it is a fixed offset, if unchecked, it is a percentage.
Put a 5 in the Vel/CC Val column, unchecked and the Velocity/CC Value will be increased by 5%. Check the checkbox and the Velocity/CC Value will be increased by 5 units.

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6 hours ago, winkpain said:

...So then, what if an articulation is conditional on two conditions?

Following from my above example: If for the legato articulation to be called, both the pedal (CC 64) must be "down" (127) and the note(s) velocity must be with a range of, say, 0-39. Is there a way to map one of these new articulations thusly?  Is this where the Transform section comes in? And what/where is this done if so, in the In sub-section or Out sub-section?

The transforms work on one event at a time.  It's not possible to transform an articulation based on the status of more than one event, so no, you can't do this.

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Bug in latest release. I just installed Cakewalk_by_BandLab_Update_Setup_26.10.0.075. After installation recording did not function correctly.

I put an audio track into record as per usual, pressed R, played for a while. On pressing STOP, the recording disappeared with no indication of a recording in the history. Tried a restart etc etc, still the same.

Wound back to previous release and all is well.

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2 minutes ago, David Roach said:

Bug in latest release. I just installed Cakewalk_by_BandLab_Update_Setup_26.10.0.075. After installation recording did not function correctly.

I put an audio track into record as per usual, pressed R, played for a while. On pressing STOP, the recording disappeared with no indication of a recording in the history. Tried a restart etc etc, still the same.

Wound back to previous release and all is well.

There is an even later release (Release candidate) that is version 2020.10 Build 84 (Installer "Cakewalk_by_BandLab_Update_Setup_26.10.0.084.exe")

The link to the latest installer is in the first post of this thread.

If build 84 does not fix this issue, In Preferences | Project  | Record, does deselecting "Allow Arm Changes During Playback/Record" correct this issue?

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20 minutes ago, Promidi said:

There is an even later release (Release candidate) that is version 2020.10 Build 84 (Installer "Cakewalk_by_BandLab_Update_Setup_26.10.0.084.exe")

The link to the latest installer is in the first post of this thread.

If build 84 does not fix this issue, In Preferences | Project  | Record, does deselecting "Allow Arm Changes During Playback/Record" correct this issue?

Thanks Promidi, the latest release "Cakewalk_by_BandLab_Update_Setup_26.10.0.084.exe" works fine in respect to that issue.

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Sorry, there's a way to send the articulation inserted data to the synth clicking with the mouse, like you do when click a note in piano roll?

The only way i find is positioning the cursor before the articulation and push the play.

Will be a good option to hear how sound the articulation, you can click with the mouse.

Thanks.

  • Great Idea 1

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6 hours ago, msmcleod said:

The transforms work on one event at a time.  It's not possible to transform an articulation based on the status of more than one event, so no, you can't do this.

Hmmmm.... Well, then I am confused as to the effects of this setup in my Articulation Map (1st image) in an attempt to meet the conditions of the articulation map in Kontakt (2nd image). 

To test this I run the  shown project looping through the 1/8 note pattern passing through all the articulation changes, Legato - Marcato. I can hear the changes to the articulation (samples) that plays, and it is as desired -i.e. the legato articulations (there are two kinds of legato), which are set to play only when the two conditions are met (pedal state down and appropriate velocity range)  play as desired, and the short articulations, which are likewise set to play only when the two conditions are met (pedal state up and appropriate velocity range) also play as desired. I can also watch in the Kontakt mapping editor and see the velocities mapped to the articulations displaying their appropriately changing values on the map, and I can clearly hear the effect of pedal down and pedal up.  I have added no pedal CC MIDI data anywhere else, and all the velocities attached to the notes themselves are at 64.

SO, @msmcleod, if the setup I have shown in my CW Articulation Map is not sending both the pedal (CC 64) state and velocity transform data, where else is Kontakt getting that data from?? I ask this in all humility.

Curious-er and curious-er!

CW articulation map.JPG

CS Velocity map.JPG

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20 minutes ago, winkpain said:

Hmmmm.... Well, then I am confused as to the effects of this setup in my Articulation Map (1st image) in an attempt to meet the conditions of the articulation map in Kontakt (2nd image). 

To test this I run the  shown project looping through the 1/8 note pattern passing through all the articulation changes, Legato - Marcato. I can hear the changes to the articulation (samples) that plays, and it is as desired -i.e. the legato articulations (there are two kinds of legato), which are set to play only when the two conditions are met (pedal state down and appropriate velocity range)  play as desired, and the short articulations, which are likewise set to play only when the two conditions are met (pedal state up and appropriate velocity range) also play as desired. I can also watch in the Kontakt mapping editor and see the velocities mapped to the articulations displaying their appropriately changing values on the map, and I can clearly hear the effect of pedal down and pedal up.  I have added no pedal CC MIDI data anywhere else, and all the velocities attached to the notes themselves are at 64.

SO, @msmcleod, if the setup I have shown in my CW Articulation Map is not sending both the pedal (CC 64) state and velocity transform data, where else is Kontakt getting that data from?? I ask this in all humility.

Curious-er and curious-er!

CW articulation map.JPG

CS Velocity map.JPG

@winkpain - what you've got here is two Generated MIDI Events followed by a single transformation event - this is fine.  I obviously misunderstood your original question.

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3 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

@winkpain - what you've got here is two Generated MIDI Events followed by a single transformation event - this is fine.  I obviously misunderstood your original question.

Ah! This is good. I hate making things work and not knowing why! 😉

So, is it correct to think of the Generated MIDI Events followed by a Transform in the same way as the logical argument "If A, then B and C"? With A being the created/mapped Articulation, B being the Generated Event, and C being the Transformation ?

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15 hours ago, Promidi said:

Channel aftertouch to key aftertouch transform:  The example below is the MIDI transform settings I believe should result in changing Channel aftertouch to Key aftertouch affecting Note C3 (60) .  What actually happens is the resultant values get zeroed out.

@Promidi, in the situation that you mention in your post above and show in the associated image, does this mean that.....this would.... create the possibility of polyphonic aftertouch from Channel aftertouch?? Is that.... possible?

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35 minutes ago, winkpain said:

So, is it correct to think of the Generated MIDI Events followed by a Transform in the same way as the logical argument "If A, then B and C"? With A being the created/mapped Articulation, B being the Generated Event, and C being the Transformation ?

(I hate it when a post seems to disappear. Apologies of this appears twice.)

Remember this caveat:

When triggered any existing MIDI events get transformed.
At the same time, the MIDI events in the top half get created. They do not get transformed.

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20 minutes ago, Nigel Mackay said:

(I hate it when a post seems to disappear. Apologies of this appears twice.)

Remember this caveat:

When triggered any existing MIDI events get transformed.
At the same time, the MIDI events in the top half get created. They do not get transformed.

"When triggered" means when the created/mapped articulation is triggered, yes? And then "any existing MIDI events" means any events that meet the Transform's "In" criteria, yes?

And the second point is simply that any articulation generated events from the upper right Articulation Map Editor section do not also get transformed by any of the functions in the lower Transform section.

Have I got all this right?

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sorry. I found a small bug.
The selection is not set correctly when the first Articulation in the track is included.
Look at the range of the time ruler.
When the first Articulation is included, the selection time is set from the beginning.

This bug is pasted in an unexpected location when copying. Please be careful.
I was able to avoid it by inserting some Articulation first.

select_bug.gif.14a802a206390b4febcad37b50a5c16d.gif

 

 

Edited by Toy

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On 10/31/2020 at 4:27 PM, Matthew Sorrels said:

MIDI Event Chase on Play and Include Note Events are both checked.  Zero Controllers When Play Stops is unchecked.

Thanks for this. When did this change? Is there a Global setting or only per project. This is effecting 1000's of my files UGH!

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1 hour ago, Toy said:

sorry. I found a small bug.
The selection is not set correctly when the first Articulation in the track is included.
Look at the range of the time ruler.
When the first Articulation is included, the selection time is set from the beginning.

This bug is pasted in an unexpected location when copying. Please be careful.
I was able to avoid it by inserting some Articulation first.

select_bug.gif.14a802a206390b4febcad37b50a5c16d.gif

 

 

I see this as well.

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