mixing vocals issues

[greg54]

3 minutes ago, John Vere said:

 But you also were saying you were not happy with the sound of your vocals. So is it that they sound great after you EQ them in the monitors and everywhere else but not on your headphones? 

When I listen on the monitors, I hear every little imperfection in my vocals.  But through headphones (and I have several pairs) I can't hear any weird frequencies.  They sound good.  So I guess I'll trust the monitors and fix all the frequency issues.  That way I'll know they'll be right (or better).  

[John Vere]

9 hours ago, greg54 said:

So I guess I'll trust the monitors and fix all the frequency issues.  That way I'll know they'll be right (or better).  

But also proof on other systems, even if all those headphones are different they are still just one type of listening device. I bought this and it's been the greatest proofer of them all. It's Mono and will immediately make anything that is wrong like too much bass real obvious. I can play exported mixes through it using Media Player even with Cakewalk open. I also use Sonobus  https://www.sonobus.net/   to send directly from my Master bus to my cell phone. Its amazing software FREE! 

iHome Weather Tough Portable BT Speaker with LED Black

 

Edited April 20 by John Vere

[greg54]

Thanks, John!  I will look into it.

[Sailor55]

I too have several headphones kicking around.  But when I want to hear exactly what I've mixed with no "personality" whatsoever, I turn to my Neumann NDH 20's. They bring nothing of their own to the table. I guess you could say that is their "sound"... i.e. no coloration of any kind.  Granted, they are crazy expensive ($700  CDN these days, slightly less than what I paid for my used Mackie HR824 monitors many years ago) and takes a bit of getting used to, but the entire spectrum is presented in all its naked glory. I listened to some Billy Joel with them recently. Wow. Lots of stuff I'd never heard before. But, whether it be headphones or studio monitors, my vocal shortcomings are generally quite apparent (and irritating) to me. - Dan

 

 

[pwal³]

headphones? sony mdr-7506 here

[Craig Anderton]

Regarding room tuning and such, remember that the level at which you listen to music matters because the frequency response of your ear varies depending on the level. K-System calibration is still useful for calibrating monitor levels.

[Starship Krupa]

On 4/19/2024 at 7:02 AM, greg54 said:

One thing I need to mention:  My original post was not about mics or vocal booths but about playback to try to mix.  My issue is that I'm not sure if I'm hearing the mix correctly.  Monitors have frequencies that sound one way, and headphones sound another.

I guess my request for more info got lost, but I picked up on that.

For me, it's usually the headphones that are more revealing, but I guess you have some very revealing monitors.

Of course check the silly stuff like tone controls on the monitors if they're active. Don't ask how I know this, but it's possible to accidentally adjust them when moving the monitors around or giving them an experimental tweak and then getting distracted and forgetting to put it back.

Mixing-wise, when I get certain frequencies poking out (with vox it's usually in the nasal regions), I use the sweep method to home in on them and then cut that frequency.

[greg54]

On 4/20/2024 at 4:40 PM, Starship Krupa said:

Mixing-wise, when I get certain frequencies poking out (with vox it's usually in the nasal regions), I use the sweep method to home in on them and then cut that frequency.

That's pretty much what I've decided I need to do.  With monitors, I hear all the bad stuff.  When I use headphones and compare with reference tracks, my vocals sound as good as what I hear from the RT.   But I'm trying to mix with monitors to try to get rid of whatever bad frequencies they uncover.  

[greg54]

On 4/20/2024 at 10:50 AM, Craig Anderton said:

Regarding room tuning and such, remember that the level at which you listen to music matters because the frequency response of your ear varies depending on the level. K-System calibration is still useful for calibrating monitor levels.

Interesting.  Thanks, Craig!

Edited April 24 by greg54

[Lynn Wilson]

Greg, you've received some good advice which can help you in the long run.  However, without hearing a sample of your vocals, it's nearly impossible to give you precise advice.  You might get better help if you posted a sample of your song or vocal for our ears to hear on our systems.  I know that many singers don't like the sound of their own voice, yet others might like it anyway.  I used to be that way until I discovered that it was my ears that were faulty and not my equipment or room.  Eventually, I learned to overcome that disability by posting songs on the song forum, and I learned from a consensus of opinions where my weakness was and made adjustments accordingly.

I'm not saying your ears are bad; just that sometimes ears need a little training.  It's like getting used to your monitors and knowing their strengths and weaknesses.  Good luck!

[greg54]

What exactly is the K-system?

[Glenn Stanton]

long story but short version - Bob Katz (whose mastering audio book is still great reading) was one of the early advocates of standardizing volume levels and he developed a system which provided for setting the output level vs a dynamic range choice. this model was later refined and adopted by many in the broadcast standards we see today.

this is a nice reference: https://www.meterplugs.com/blog/2016/10/14/k-system-metering-101.html

[Sunshine Dreaming]

On 4/13/2024 at 12:10 AM, msmcleod said:

For example, say your room has a dip at 350Hz or at 800Hz - you think everything sounds thin, so you boost the frequencies around there.  However you then play it on another system, and everything sounds muddy or nasal.  You've boosted a frequency because you can't hear it properly - not because it's not there, but because your room has EQ'd it out.
 

When you say, the room has "a dip", about which range are we talking here? 

 

 

 

Edited April 26 by Sunshine Dreaming

[msmcleod]

14 hours ago, Sunshine Dreaming said:

When you say, the room has "a dip", about which range are we talking here? 

To give you an example, these are the frequency response graphs of my studio (top) and my office (bottom).  

As you can see, my studio has a huge dip at around 250Hz-300Hz (possibly a standing wave), and another at around 3KHz.

My office on the other hand, has a huge bump at 200Hz, and a dip at around 800Hz.

The ARC plugin has done a pretty good job of sorting these issues out (the AFTER curve).

It's worth mentioning that it's the combination of both the speakers AND the room that give these responses.  You could have the best speakers in the world, and have a really uneven response if your room isn't correctly treated.

If I did a mix in my office without ARC2, I'd be turning down 200Hz like crazy, only to find it's totally missing when I played it on another system - the opposite would be true if I did my mix in my studio without ARC2.

[greg54]

I just ordered the ARC system.  I figured if it will help, then why not?  Thanks for the suggestion.