Backing tracks; betting them to an equal level for gigs

[RICHARD HUTCHINS]

That's all very helpful, I hadn't heard of the voice harmoniser nor the expose2 app.  My set up will have a lead vocalist and I try to do the harmonies but the problem is that whilst I can sing in tune my voice is thin and reedy, with no real character.  Nothing I can do about that I daresay.

 

Thanks again I will check all of this out, and probably come running back with questions!( I'm not on a learning curve here, its actually vertical!!)

[RICHARD HUTCHINS]

John, can it help with weedy vocals ( me) by double tracking them and maybe a bit of pitch correction?

[John Vere]

If used properly the voice processing pedals can really make a weak singer sound much better. And for many it gives you more confidence.
And I use mine sometimes in our duo for when I’m singing harmonies. The lead singer gets this 3 part harmony instead of 1. This is where having that one in ear monitor really shines. You can nail  a perfect in pitch vocal line by focusing on yours in the in ear and tuning out the others.  My partner is hard of hearing so sings out of key a lot. So I don’t dare listen to him for notes.  I’m in my own little world of perfect tuning.  

Edited November 11, 2023 by John Vere

[RICHARD HUTCHINS]

Thanks I'll check it out. Need all the help I can get vox wise.

[Max Arwood]

This is actually video software but works on a few types of audio files. Three great features. 1 it’s free! 2 It will do 40 songs rather quickly. 3 It is pretty good at what it does. 
From the web - it is not a compressor, normalizer or limiter although it contains all three.

I should have said 4 great features #4 It is super easy to use.
 

You should give it a try!

https://www.videohelp.com/software/The-Levelator
 

 

[RICHARD HUTCHINS]

Interesting, thanks Max I'll have a look.

[RICHARD HUTCHINS]

Yep, just had a look, and it doesnt support MP3's unfortunately.

[John Vere]

But you can export as wave files, master them and then for free batch convert to MP3 using Gold Wave. It does 40 songs in less than a minute.  And I think the quality is way better.
And it has lots of options regarding the MP3 unlike Cakewalk which you have to jump through way too many hoops and it very limited. 

It will even take your stereo wave and make it a mono MP3 all in one simple operation. Its free but with Nag to purchase. And best of all its made in Canada! https://www.goldwave.ca/  I paid  $40 for it 15 years ago and unlike Cakewalk my license bough me lifetime updates that they still honor. 

Edited November 12, 2023 by John Vere

[RICHARD HUTCHINS]

Ah! Okay I will revisit forthwith! Thanks John.

[RICHARD HUTCHINS]

John, I watched your very helpful mixing video. I like the youlean plug in and got the free version, I'm assuming I need to get the pro version to set an optimum LUF level for the tracks? It looks disabled in the free version, which I suppose is fair enough.

I assume its simple to use? Has to be for me I'm sorry to say. All I want is for the tracks to be the same level for the gigs.

[John Vere]

3 hours ago, RICHARD HUTCHINS said:

John, I watched your very helpful mixing video. I like the youlean plug in and got the free version, I'm assuming I need to get the pro version to set an optimum LUF level for the tracks? It looks disabled in the free version, which I suppose is fair enough.

I assume its simple to use? Has to be for me I'm sorry to say. All I want is for the tracks to be the same level for the gigs.

The free version will still give you accurate readings but you have to play a whole song for that to happen.  As I said it's well worth the paid version because that allows you to drag and drop the files and get a reading in seconds. This is a huge time saver for anyone dealing with multiple files. And it has a stand alone version so you can use it directly in the Windows environment. I have a shortcut on my desktop that I use daily. It even analyzes my Video creations. It's one of those irreplaceable tools I use a lot. And it is more precise in it's results than any other analyzing tools I have including Span and Melda.

Sorry to send you shopping but, hey Black Friday is close so I think I bought it on sale a couple years ago on one of the specials. This is defiantly the time of year to have a wish list and pay attention.  And Gold Wave is a program I also would have trouble replacing for what I use it for. 

I even use You Lean meter when I recording things like guitar parts. I'll have recorded a bunch of different takes using different Pick ups etc. and I'll drag and drop the tracks or clips into You Lean to compare LUFS and Peaks. It makes it easier to mix songs when you have tracks that are even in LUFS.  Over time I've found my Bass tracks should be around -24 LUFS to be correct in the mix. It's cheating by numbers! 

[Max Arwood]

Razorlame is a GUI for the lame encoder. It is a free batch wave to mp3 program. (It can do a bunch of codecs)  It requires Lame encoder to work. 
 

https://sourceforge.net/projects/razorlame/

 

I couldn’t find the direct sourceforge link

Here are links to 32 & 64 bit versions 
https://www.videohelp.com/software/Lame-MP3
 

 

[RICHARD HUTCHINS]

Thanks all. John we have Black Friday here in the UK  too, so I will do some shopping but I take on board your positive comments for the plug in. Thanks again

 

Rich

[TVR PRODUCTIONS]

The Beatles, as simple as they sound, are anything but.  Since I will play guitar and the other guy plays bass and sings, I would need a click or something on mellow songs like Norwegian Wood. There is no driving rhythm on that song and a few others.  Of course, we could play it as a duo and no backing track but I want the sitar in there.  There are a few songs such as This Boy that have 3 vocals so I would put the George Harrison harmony on the backing so it blends in. Not many people would notice. I wouldn't do this with 5 part harmony Beach Boys songs or even Here There and Everywhere where there is heavy backing vocals. I would not even attempt a harmonizer.  Not all Beatles harmonies are 3rd or 5ths. A song like If I Fell would be a disaster using a vocal pedal.  I would not do anything crazy with harmonies other than the subdued George Harrison vocal that no one will really notice but needs to be there.  Nothing obvious or it would be karaoke.

My thought is that nearly all of the music will be on the multi track.  If we add someone like a percussionist, I can simply turn that track off.  If my friend doesn't show up at all, I can put his bass back in and I would not be screwed. In other words, I would never have to worry about someone not showing up again. I would think the Multitrack recorder should be almost as easy as a CD but am not sure of how good the controls are.  I would hope I could just scroll through songs, one after another.  I would keep it right next to me.   But my big fear is that I can mix something in my house and it would not sound right in the venue.  If those volumes are not balanced when I add me and the bass player, we are stuck with that for the night.  The ability to control each instrument gives me a greater comfort. This all stems from me being a perfectionist, which almost takes the joy of performing.  BTW,  I would not need to  record one track at a time. I am recorded these tracks in my DAW and I could export 4 independent channels simultaneously to 4 tracks on the multitrack.  So, I can perfect them in the DAW and simply send them out to the recorder.  would have 2 bar count in so I could hear the first 4 and then cue the bass player.  I am curious why you bought the Zoom L8.  Did you have the same thoughts as I do?

[JnTuneTech]

3 hours ago, TVR PRODUCTIONS said:

I would need a click or something on mellow songs like Norwegian Wood. There is no driving rhythm on that song and a few others.  Of course, we could play it as a duo and no backing track but I want the sitar in there.

I just had to pull up my now 11-year old mix of backing tracks I use for "Norwegian Wood", after reading your post.  -It really all comes down to what your workflow preferences are, as I always tend to say.  On quiet songs like that one, I mostly use a basic soft pedal & taps on virtual hi-hat, at a low level, in my cue-only bus mix, and the rest of that particular mix has enough options that keep the song going for me to play along easily, with in-ear monitors. -Definitely nice to be able to have the sitar parts, and by the end adding the tambourine & kick eliminates my need for click by then - but that is just what works for me. In the venues I have had.

The points you mention - optional tracking for adding/removing parts for performing along with - are great when you have a pattern and a set of tools that works for you. Each of us finds the method that fits - and works within your budget of course. The biggest challenge to me is always making sure to mix down a complementary amount of reverb & compression to match what I use on the live mains mics I will use, and then previewing it if at all possible. I often use a separate recording of either the mains feed, or sometimes just a video camera recording from offstage for checking that. But again, it's really just up to your available tools & creative satisfaction to arrange it all. -Nice to have part/player options with a multitrack mix at hand, though sometimes you can get carried away with complexity & alternate mixes. Definitely a different beast though than just playing with a real group, -pluses & minuses! I   still hate hauling in & setting up, and then breaking down & packing out though... Depending on the type of music you play, of course, but that part still takes work or extra help - if you can get it!

[RICHARD HUTCHINS]

Really interesting posts. I am proposing to use Stage Traxx 3 and an iPad and keep it simple. Except it isn't simple! I'd like the option of mixing it a bit at different venues but not sure how to do that as yet.

I use a variax guitar and it has a nice sitar, although I always fancy a curry after playing it! 

 

As to the Beatles I was also of the opinion of  that " how hard can it be" crowd. How wrong could I be. I've been in rock and metal bands and they all love to whizz around the fretboard showing off how fast they are and how many hours they spent in their bedroom practicing the arpeggios of doom, etc etc but its actually easier to do that than do a Beatles song correctly for some bizarre reason.

 

I think it is because the amount of talent in the Beatles was so huge, mere practice is not enough to even come close to getting that sound. I have to admit I'm finding it hard work, but I don't mind because I get to listen to their songs and learn all about the structure, harmonies and arrangement. ( Also I grew up with them here in the UK and they were Gods to us!)

But how did they make it look so easy, and sound so good in front of thousands of screaming kids, using a couple of Vox AC30s? Errr...talent. 😄

[Will.]

Just match your RMS levels with the rest. Use the quietest track and match the rest with that one. Route them all through the master bus, insert your analyzer such as Span, Youlean or Meter5 

[RICHARD HUTCHINS]

You mean use Youlean as a plug in on the master?

[DeeringAmps]

42 minutes ago, RICHARD HUTCHINS said:

use Youlean as a plug in on the master

Yes!

[DeeringAmps]

Just a note here. 
I generally mix the “rockers” a little hotter than the ballads. 
Also, I send the left channel to the “mains” and the right channel to the monitors. 
Consequently all tracks are mono. 
Some tunes I add some applause to that left channel. If there is a live performance by the artist in question, I’ll mix in their intro/outro “banter” with the crowd. 
The monitor mix always “calls” the tune, the key, and the correct key for the “harp” player; then the count in. 
Been using this method since Cake 3.0; cassettes, then CD’s, now everything is on my phone. Patch it into a pair of line ins on the PA.  The first time a text came in during a performance was fun. Airplane mode fixed that. 
Works for me, YMMV…

t

Edited November 14, 2023 by DeeringAmps