Help me pick my next gear! (Headphones or Microphone)?

[El Diablo]

OWN:

Sony MDR 7506 Headphones
Audio Technica 2050 microphone

WANT:

Neumann NDH 20
Slate Digital VMS ML - 1 Modeling Microphone

My headphones are flaking, but they still work.  The microphone still works.  Both are over 10 years old.

 

Edit: For a home studio, no treated room, no studio monitors.  The studio is mobile sometimes in different untreated places, like a RV.

Edited May 28, 2023 by El Diablo

[bitflipper]

You might find that a quality dynamic microphone with a narrow pattern quite beneficial in non-ideal recording spaces.

Here's one I've been using on stage for the past 3-4 years, primarily because its supercardioid pattern lets me place a vocal monitor right next to me on a stand. One day I put it up to record a quick 'n dirty vocal harmony while sitting at my desk, and was delighted at the results. It's now my go-to vocal mic for recording; my fancy condenser hasn't been out of its case in ages.

[Gswitz]

[bitflipper]

^^^ Well, there ya go! I'll bet OP doesn't have one yet.

[OutrageProductions]

FWIW;

...over a period of a week or so, I got to trade off a pair of Focal Clear Mg Pro headphones [http://www.economik.com/focal/clear-mg-professional/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9fLRs-Xa_gIVwoJbCh3nRwVkEAQYASABEgJaW_D_BwE] with some more familiar and less costly units like the NDH-20's and Beyerdynamic DT 700 Pro X.

Going often from $110k in-wall Westlakes to headphones in a Hill designed LEDE room led me to believe that the most accurate facsimile was the DT 700's. Not to mention the highway robbery committed by the previously mentioned manufacturers. Just MHO over 45+ years in the biz.

YMMV.

Edited May 29, 2023 by OutrageProductions

[El Diablo]

7 hours ago, OutrageProductions said:

FWIW;

...over a period of a week or so, I got to trade off a pair of Focal Clear Mg Pro headphones [http://www.economik.com/focal/clear-mg-professional/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9fLRs-Xa_gIVwoJbCh3nRwVkEAQYASABEgJaW_D_BwE] with some more familiar and less costly units like the NDH-20's and Beyerdynamic DT 700 Pro X.

Going often from $110k in-wall Westlakes to headphones in a Hill designed LEDE room led me to believe that the most accurate facsimile was the DT 700's. Not to mention the highway robbery committed by the previously mentioned manufacturers. Just MHO over 45+ years in the biz.

YMMV.

I was thinking about the DT 700 pro x because the impedance is very low..48 ohms vs ndh 20s at 150 ohms.  I've also heard some people having trouble even hearing the ndh 20s on their Focusrite Solo.  I was kind of worrying if Focusrite couldn't push the headset, I'd also need to buy a amp for the headphones, lol.

Edit: With your thoughts, it might be better to get the DT 700.  I'm only worried about beyerdynamic's headphones having extra high EQ on their headsets that people talk about on the forums.  Although, I may not worry about it if it's in Waves Audio's NX GERMANO plugin, as the emulation should flatten the headphones.

Edited May 29, 2023 by El Diablo

[Bapu]

I use ATH-M50x for drummer to wear during recording (reduces bleed) and since I'm in the same room with the drummer I wear them too.

I use (mainly) Sonarworks profiled Sennheiser HD650s for mixing, and if I'm in the mood I'll use Slate VSX to get a flavor of different environment reactions to my mix.

I also have a pair of HD-600s (non-profiled) and Ultimate Ears (in ear) reference monitors with personal molded earpieces.

If and when I want to use actual speakers I have first generation IKM iLoud MTMs with an Adam 8" subwoofer.

I rarely have a vocalist in my home studio but I have available an AEA R84 ribbon mic, Slate VMS ML-1 and Slate preamp, Townsend Labs Sphere mic with all the UAD available mic modeling profiles and an AKG C414 form the 80s that was modded to be transformer less.

[projectm]

The rule is that you always need more microphones!

 

…and a very lovely set of headphones that you know better than your spouse.

[El Diablo]

25 minutes ago, projectm said:

The rule is that you always need more microphones!

 

…and a very lovely set of headphones that you know better than your spouse.

Buy the upgraded Headphones first or the upgraded microphone?

[El Diablo]

4 hours ago, Bapu said:

I use ATH-M50x for drummer to wear during recording (reduces bleed) and since I'm in the same room with the drummer I wear them too.

I use (mainly) Sonarworks profiled Sennheiser HD650s for mixing, and if I'm in the mood I'll use Slate VSX to get a flavor of different environment reactions to my mix.

I also have a pair of HD-600s (non-profiled) and Ultimate Ears (in ear) reference monitors with personal molded earpieces.

If and when I want to use actual speakers I have first generation IKM iLoud MTMs with an Adam 8" subwoofer.

I rarely have a vocalist in my home studio but I have available an AEA R84 ribbon mic, Slate VMS ML-1 and Slate preamp, Townsend Labs Sphere mic with all the UAD available mic modeling profiles and an AKG C414 form the 80s that was modded to be transformer less.

So, my best bet is to use the Sony MDR-7506 closed back headphones when recording a vocal and get a open back headphones for doing all things in Cakewalk?

[projectm]

47 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

Buy the upgraded Headphones first or the upgraded microphone?

Personally I would upgrade the headphones if you’re not happy with the ones you have. The Sonys are a little on the hi-fi side IMO. You should have some really flat and boring sounding ones for critical listening. Your mic is actually pretty good and you can get great recordings through it. Expand your arsenal of microphones when you have the need and money😎

Edited May 29, 2023 by projectm

[bitflipper]

4 hours ago, El Diablo said:

So, my best bet is to use the Sony MDR-7506 closed back headphones when recording a vocal and get a open back headphones for doing all things in Cakewalk?

That would be a reasonable strategy.

Open-back headphones are generally flatter than closed-back, and of course a flat frequency response is preferable if you're mixing on them. I don't mix on headphones myself, but if I did, it would probably be on a pair of Sennheiser HD600s. For editing, flatness isn't as critical. An inexpensive pair of ATH-M50s are fine for that.

14 hours ago, El Diablo said:

I was kind of worrying if Focusrite couldn't push the headset, I'd also need to buy a amp for the headphones, lol.

My go-to headphones (Sennheiser HD558) for editing are moderately Hi-Z. They generally work fine with my Focusrite interface. But back during quarantine I was trying to do some real-time online jams (never again) and wanted more volume. So I bought an inexpensive headphone amplifier. That turned out to be a fantastic investment. Turns out, even if your interface can deliver satisfactory volume, you may still be getting compressed peaks without knowing it.

For a long time I'd assumed that headphone amps were audiophile snake oil, but I was so impressed by how much better the amp made the headphones sound that I bought a little battery-powered headphone amplifier so I'd always have the higher-voltage rails and higher current capacity even when outside the studio. And while the improvement is most dramatic with my high-impedance cans (Sennheiser HD650), it helps my low-impedance headphones as well.

Bear in mind that while the broad consensus is that Lo-Z headphones are easier to get loud with, there are diminishing returns as you approach an impedance that requires more current than your interface can supply. The sonic effect is very similar to having insufficient voltage to drive a Hi-Z speaker. With a good headphone amp, you won't have to worry about either one.

[Starship Krupa]

On 5/28/2023 at 6:15 AM, El Diablo said:

My headphones are flaking, but they still work.  The microphone still works.

As long as you're reasonably happy with the cans (they are well-respected), and by "flaking," you meant that the earpads are worn, get a set of velour replacement earpads and spend the rest on whatever mic you're interested in.

It surprises me how often helpful people neglect to ask "what kind of music/instruments are you mixing/recording? Are you using the cans for tracking and/or mixing?"

It looks like you're mixing on the cans, so the important thing is to have a set of headphones that you like to listen to for long periods of time and are familiar with. The first will help with the second. You want to know how great mixes sound on whatever repro system you're using, so listen to everything on those cans.

You apparently have $500 to spend on this. On its own, the Slate M-1 is "just" a large diaphragm condenser mic. The VSL system is a package of mic modeling software that's matched to the M-1. I would think of these as two separate things that are part of a bundle. If you want a new  mic and you want mic modeling software, you can buy this package, but there are other options available. Unlike most bundles, this one seems like they are charging more than what you might pay for a mic of similar quality and a similar software suite.

Disclosure: I have little interest in mic modeling; my strategy is to get the best (used) mics my budget will allow, get the best capture possible with them, then process that with the (quite extensive) array of software tools I have. I'm skeptical about the technology. If you think that it's a substitute for actually owning any of these illustrious and expensive classic mics, I suspect otherwise, because in addition to the things that software can model, microphones just respond differently to different levels, different placement, etc.

I hate to be "that guy," but if you want to expand your palette of mic sounds, it might be more useful to put some time into figuring out how to position the one you own and treating your room to get the sound you want. No mic is going to sound optimal if it's being used in a suboptimal way in a suboptimal space, and a pretty lowly mic can sound excellent in the right context and environment. You don't have a room that's going to be much good for recording anything unless you set up some treatment. Even some foam on the walls to kill the bright reflections helps.

If I were to go this route, I would be more inclined to get a mic that I really liked the sound of and then buy a separate software package. There are multiple standalone mic modeling software packages on the market. Others may chime in with what they think are the best ones. IK Multimedia has Mic Room, Antares has Mic Mod, Mic Mod is $150, Mic Room is $50. I would rather have a $350-450 mic and one of these packages, but that's just me.

I'm not the best person to recommend vintage emulations. I'm just not that into them. I think I regularly use about 3 plug-ins that are emulations of vintage gear, the T-Racks 670, SPL Vitalizer, and bx_B15n. As a rule (to be broken at will!) I'd rather have modern technology that can do what was best about the vintage gear than I would modern technology that is trying to imitate the compromises made back in the day. This is a viewpoint that is currently out of fashion in the audio engineering world, I think. I'll just do my music and wait for the inevitable "it has that classic mid 21st century In The Box sound" fad.

So find the best possible mic for your ears and your needs. I like diversity. Depending on what you want to record, that could be a small diaphragm condenser or a classic dynamic (Shure SM57, SM7, Sennheiser MD421, Electro Voice RE-20 or perhaps a Beyer or more modern Sennheiser). I can't say because I don't even know what source(s) you are recording. That will give you the widest array of sounds, and you can still use Mic Mod/Room software on the AT 2050.

[El Diablo]

9 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

As long as you're reasonably happy with the cans (they are well-respected), and by "flaking," you meant that the earpads are worn, get a set of velour replacement earpads and spend the rest on whatever mic you're interested in.

It surprises me how often helpful people neglect to ask "what kind of music/instruments are you mixing/recording? Are you using the cans for tracking and/or mixing?"

It looks like you're mixing on the cans, so the important thing is to have a set of headphones that you like to listen to for long periods of time and are familiar with. The first will help with the second. You want to know how great mixes sound on whatever repro system you're using, so listen to everything on those cans.

You apparently have $500 to spend on this. On its own, the Slate M-1 is "just" a large diaphragm condenser mic. The VSL system is a package of mic modeling software that's matched to the M-1. I would think of these as two separate things that are part of a bundle. If you want a new  mic and you want mic modeling software, you can buy this package, but there are other options available. Unlike most bundles, this one seems like they are charging more than what you might pay for a mic of similar quality and a similar software suite.

Disclosure: I have little interest in mic modeling; my strategy is to get the best (used) mics my budget will allow, get the best capture possible with them, then process that with the (quite extensive) array of software tools I have. I'm skeptical about the technology. If you think that it's a substitute for actually owning any of these illustrious and expensive classic mics, I suspect otherwise, because in addition to the things that software can model, microphones just respond differently to different levels, different placement, etc.

I hate to be "that guy," but if you want to expand your palette of mic sounds, it might be more useful to put some time into figuring out how to position the one you own and treating your room to get the sound you want. No mic is going to sound optimal if it's being used in a suboptimal way in a suboptimal space, and a pretty lowly mic can sound excellent in the right context and environment. You don't have a room that's going to be much good for recording anything unless you set up some treatment. Even some foam on the walls to kill the bright reflections helps.

If I were to go this route, I would be more inclined to get a mic that I really liked the sound of and then buy a separate software package. There are multiple standalone mic modeling software packages on the market. Others may chime in with what they think are the best ones. IK Multimedia has Mic Room, Antares has Mic Mod, Mic Mod is $150, Mic Room is $50. I would rather have a $350-450 mic and one of these packages, but that's just me.

I'm not the best person to recommend vintage emulations. I'm just not that into them. I think I regularly use about 3 plug-ins that are emulations of vintage gear, the T-Racks 670, SPL Vitalizer, and bx_B15n. As a rule (to be broken at will!) I'd rather have modern technology that can do what was best about the vintage gear than I would modern technology that is trying to imitate the compromises made back in the day. This is a viewpoint that is currently out of fashion in the audio engineering world, I think. I'll just do my music and wait for the inevitable "it has that classic mid 21st century In The Box sound" fad.

So find the best possible mic for your ears and your needs. I like diversity. Depending on what you want to record, that could be a small diaphragm condenser or a classic dynamic (Shure SM57, SM7, Sennheiser MD421, Electro Voice RE-20 or perhaps a Beyer or more modern Sennheiser). I can't say because I don't even know what source(s) you are recording. That will give you the widest array of sounds, and you can still use Mic Mod/Room software on the AT 2050.

The only bad thing about replacing ear pads is how they change the sound of the headphones.  I've read review after review (I never read the perfect reviews, nor the one star reviews.  I read in-between the lines) on this and the originals made by Sony's approved third party costs half the price of a new headset.  So, I'm vary wary of changing them.  It's one of the reasons I was thinking of getting a new set of cans.  I'll keep the old ones for referencing, but other than that, I think I should get a new set.

I currently use NX GERMANO studio from Waves Audio and I've got the Bluetooth head attachment that works along with it for a 360 experience.  It's pretty much the only plugin I use from Waves Audio now since the subscription scare.

As far as Microphones, I guess I can save and wait cause I think picking a microphone is going to be much harder than a headset.  I don't have a big budget, as I'm a hobbist producer.  I do however want to make great sound recording of my songs.  I'm the one man band, so to speak.

[Bapu]

On 5/28/2023 at 6:15 AM, El Diablo said:

 

My headphones are flaking, but they still work.  The microphone still works.  Both are over 10 years old.

WRT to mics, some people will sell their animals to have (the right) over 10 year old mic. 😉