lyrics or instruments first?

[dumbquestions]

Which order keeps you going more in your writing process? Feel like when I write the melodies first, the lyrical content sometimes takes a hit. On the other hand, starting with lyrics first might limit create freedom through the rest of the process?

what do you do?

[craigb]

1 hour ago, dumbquestions said:

Which order keeps you going more in your writing process? Feel like when I write the melodies first, the lyrical content sometimes takes a hit. On the other hand, starting with lyrics first might limit create freedom through the rest of the process?

what do you do?

 You know you're going to screw up your member name if you ask questions like that! 😂 

As for me, usually one of the two things was the inspiration, so that usually takes precedence.  That said, it's always a back and forth process for me!

[hockeyjx]

I start with a riff and a melody and then get a word concept based on the mood of those.

While I agree that it is harder to shoehorn words in to a melody;  a good melody can carry average lyrics ...but great lyrics can't carry a bad melody.

YMMV

Edited March 14 by hockeyjx

[AndyB01]

I do both, I had lyrics for a song about two years before I found the right melody for it - I'd tried a few but nothing really worked and I didn't want to compromise on the words. In the end, an EzKeys track proved to be the answer.

Other times I have a melody or chord track and think 'I can write a song that goes with that'. 

It varies, but generally I'm a lyrics first songwriter. If I'm emotionally invested in a song (i.e. if it's personal in some way), it's always lyrics first.

I think you should do whatever best works for you.

Andy

[DeeringAmps]

For me the lyrics tend to write the melody. 
this is invariably how I work with my principal collaborator.  He generally has a riff and the basic chord structure. But he knows better than to attempt to “sing” the lyrics we are starting with. He has zero sense of “meter” and canNOT carry a tune. 
My own stuff I think I approach the same way. Often the “germ” of the song is a lyric/melody combo from the beginning. Often that sets up, or a least starts, the chord structure. I can’t think of a single time I’ve had the chords and melody done without some of lyrics present. 
(could this be why I am not a successful songwriter? Heavens no!)

t

Edited March 15 by DeeringAmps

[hockeyjx]

Cocteau Twins are a perfect example of good(IMO) melodies with absolute jibberish in terms of words. I was enthralled by their album Four-Calendar Café because the melodies were haunting, but I could not disseminate words.

 

 

[craigb]

I finish the lyrics first on every instrumental I make! 😜

[Rain]

I'll get an idea for a few notes and words, just a bit of something and then keep repeating that part over and and try to add to it. The outline of the words is discernible in the notes, so to speak. It's all in there, I just work on revealing it. I feel that you recognize what works and what doesn't, the song tells you.

Fortunately, I am not under contract to write music or lyrics, so I can afford to do things that way, and to let the songs come to me. Which doesn't mean you don't polish your skills in the meantime. Some songs are like mere exercises. 

But unless it is one of those exercises, I never sit down and think about what I want to say. If there's anything meaningful that I need to say, it's been marinating in my old brain for long enough, it should come out a little more "organically".  It's almost like pulling on a thread.

Otherwise things tend to sound a little too self-conscious. I studied literature so that part of me always needs to try to impress people with its fancy words and references to literary works, and to try and sound clever. That never works. Well, it works, but it's cringeworthy.

That being said, I've written songs strictly based on title ideas, but the title was connected to a mood, it already was, eh, more than words. 

Anyway, by the time I get out of the shower, which is where I get most of my ideas, I usually have a good verse ready to dictate on the phone. 😁

 I wonder how many gallons of hot water it would take me to write a whole album worth of lyrics... I'm sure there's an equation for that. 

Edited March 16 by Rain

[paulo]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

 I wonder how many gallons of hot water it would take me to write a whole album worth of lyrics... I'm sure there's an equation for that. 

[paulo]

I'm hopeless at writing the lyric, so if I did that first I'd never get anything at all done......

Which, admittedly, is not much different to having a HD full of projects awaiting the lyric, but at least it feels like some progress has been made towards that really quite good album that I occasionally perform with consummate ease before a grateful audience when I'm asleep.

A while back I decided to sit down and do nothing but write lyrics in an attempt to remedy that. Now I've got several pages with just a title on and I'm not overly happy with some of them. The problem for me is that it has to come from within, by which I mean that I can't make a meaningful or interesting  lyric out of going to the shop for a loaf of bread and bumping into someone you haven't seen for a while like Jarvis Cocker might, so I find myself at a point where I've basically said all that I have to say for now, sometimes more than once, so........

Maybe it's time to try just writing arty sounding meaningless bollocks of the kind that some listeners might spend hours trying to work out the true meaning of when in fact there isn't one and it really is just arty sounding meaningless bollocks?

Hmmm,.....

I may be gone a while.

 

[dumbquestions]

Thanks for all the inspiration, everyone. Please keep the conversation going! 

In diving further into the topic , I might even try going the route of making up my own language like Sigur Ros guy? We’ll see. 

It sounds silly but Jónsi from SR talked about his writing process in various interviews. He mentioned that he often begins by creating melodies and vocal lines without any specific words or meaning. He focuses on the emotional qualities of the music and tries to convey those feelings through singing. Described his approach as more intuitive and instinctive rather than following a specific method or structure.

He has also mentioned that the use of his made up Hopelandic/Volenska language allows him to experiment with different sounds and textures without being bound by the constraints of a specific existing language. He stated once that he wants listeners to have their own interpretations of the music and lyrics, and by using a made-up language, he allows the songs to be open to individual meanings and emotions. 

I mean hey, whatever it takes to overcome writer’s block. At least in my case as someone who primarily does instrumental tracks, i’m used to writing melodies first, so shoehorning a made up language into my compositions to enhance the emotional impact might be the path of least resistance for me here. As much as I want to establish a single standard process/order of operations that applies to every project, it does seem way more nuanced than that I think. Hence why i started the topic, can’t consider all of the different perspectives out there without asking first

Edited March 16 by dumbquestions

[craigb]

Ric Ocasek from the Cars was known to use a thesaurus from time to time while writing his lyrics and, I'm sure, we all know someone who's used a rhyming book for help!

[hockeyjx]

11 hours ago, dumbquestions said:

Thanks for all the inspiration, everyone. Please keep the conversation going! 

In diving further into the topic , I might even try going the route of making up my own language like Sigur Ros guy? We’ll see. 

It sounds silly but Jónsi from SR talked about his writing process in various interviews. He mentioned that he often begins by creating melodies and vocal lines without any specific words or meaning. He focuses on the emotional qualities of the music and tries to convey those feelings through singing. Described his approach as more intuitive and instinctive rather than following a specific method or structure.

He has also mentioned that the use of his made up Hopelandic/Volenska language allows him to experiment with different sounds and textures without being bound by the constraints of a specific existing language. He stated once that he wants listeners to have their own interpretations of the music and lyrics, and by using a made-up language, he allows the songs to be open to individual meanings and emotions. 

I mean hey, whatever it takes to overcome writer’s block. At least in my case as someone who primarily does instrumental tracks, i’m used to writing melodies first, so shoehorning a made up language into my compositions to enhance the emotional impact might be the path of least resistance for me here. As much as I want to establish a single standard process/order of operations that applies to every project, it does seem way more nuanced than that I think. Hence why i started the topic, can’t consider all of the different perspectives out there without asking first

Hence my example above! EXACTLY what Cocteau Twins did!

[dumbquestions]

28 minutes ago, hockeyjx said:

Hence my example above! EXACTLY what Cocteau Twins did!

Absolutely! Really into the song you posted; like gibberish with little snippets of english between phrases. Attention grabbing and all of the fx on the vocal make all the jabber blend in seamlessly. Thanks for sharing

Edited March 17 by dumbquestions

[dumbquestions]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nlVA_e6WQhw&pp=ygUOc2lndXIgcm9zIGxpdmU%3D

oldie but goodie

Edited March 17 by dumbquestions