Raising the sample rate - questions

[deflint]

Hopefully someone can help get me out of the mess I’ve caused.

After raising the sample rates as shown below I have no sound on new or existing projects.
I was trying to match my friend’s settings in Logic as we work together often.
Now there's no signal in Cakewalk from the interface when attempting to record an audio track.
And no audio from any audio or MIDI tracks.
The system then displays this error and possible preventative action.
Error: Audio Engine Dropout. A dropout has stopped the audio engine (9)
Reason for dropout. Sequencer MIDI pump underrun.
Potential preventative action. Increase the Prepare using n Millisecond Buffers value in Edit > Preferences > MIDI - Playback and Recording.
The current setting of 200 WAS working for years with no problem

Steps Taken
Cakewalk Version 2023.09 (Build 062, 64 bit)
Edit Preferences – Driver Settings
I raised my Default Sampling Rate for New Projects from 44100 to 48000.
Interface
Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 2nd Gen
Increased Sample Rate from 44100 to 48000.

ASIO Panel - Increased Sample Rate from 44100 to 48000.
Windows 11 Home Version 22H2

I returned all the changed settings back to 44100 and restarted.
Unfortunately the problem remains.
This falls into the category of things I never should have changed!

Any help is greatly appreciated!

[John Vere]

I made a video about this , I'll see if I can find it. It's 100 % do able and I've now converted almost everything to 48. It's well worth the hassle. 

But for converting older projects it's a little involved. 

 here's the basic outline of steps for converting a project from 44.1 to 48

Midi tracks don't matter. Only audio.

You need all audio to be continuous from start to end. To do this you will export the audio tracks as stems at 48/32. follow the settings in my screens shot. 

You then delete the 44.1 audio from the project. All audio needs to be gone or it won't work. Even hidden tracks. Use the Project/Audio file drop down menu to check. It should be clear. 

Now you open the audio setting in preferences and change to 48000 in the new project box and by opening your interfaces control panel. You will hear a little click and now the transport module will show 48. 

Now drag and drop the new exported stems back to the original tracks.  

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by John Vere

[mettelus]

Be sure the sample rate in Windows itself also matches for the device under Sound Options and that it doesn't give exclusive control to apps. Essentially Windows can lock sample rate on you too. I typically go a step further and make sure Audio Interfaces are not set as default Windows devices, just to keep Windows' mitts off it.

As far as changing sample rates. Offloading stems from a project and then batch importing them into a new project (set to the new sample rate) will SRC them all on import.

[John Vere]

I didn't read your post close enough. 

follow the directions in my video as well as make sure to set up everything everywhere to 48 as @mettelus  has said even windows. 

The places to check are

Windows sound settings/ advance settings

In Cakewalk preferences Audio / Driver settings

The Interfaces Control panel  

And as in my instructions above make sure there's absolutely no trace of 44.1 audio in any projects. 

Don't forget to try restarting after you make the changes and make sure they took. And don't forget to "APPLY" changes. 

https://youtu.be/opDwsC4_llg

 

[deflint]

Not just Cakewalk that's affected. No audio just using Audacity to play an MP3.
Whatever I did, Windows 11 also is not happy.

[deflint]

Thanks for responding. Finally got this sorted out after uninstalling/reinstalling the Focusrite drivers.

The interface defaults to 48K
Cakewalk is currently set back to 44100, 24 bit and is working.
I noticed you can select 48K when exporting which may be the easiest way to send files to my friend so he doesn't have to convert everything I send. 

Thanks again!

 

[Byron Dickens]

Windows updates are infamous for jacking with your audio drivers.

[John Vere]

Why not switch Cakewalk to 48? I gave you the instructions and it’s fairly easy . There’s many advantages to having everything 48. Videos are 48 and so this often can cause conflicts if you try and watch one with Cakewalk running at 44.1. 
I personally see zero reasons to use 44.1 anymore. I find it even odd that it’s still a default for Cakewalk?  
All the music delivery services now ask for 48/24 wave files. 44.1 and MP3 are dinosaurs.  

[Promidi]

1 hour ago, Byron Dickens said:

Windows updates are infamous for jacking with your audio drivers.

Which is why I have told Windows Updates to keep its hand off the drivers.

See:

https://www.techilife.com/exclude-drivers-from-windows-quality-updates/

[Promidi]

26 minutes ago, John Vere said:

44.1 and MP3 are dinosaurs.  

And if you must still use them, even MP3 files can be encoded at 48khz.

[John Vere]

1 hour ago, Promidi said:

And if you must still use them, even MP3 files can be encoded at 48khz.

Absolutely. A 320kbps MP 3 at 48/ 24. is probably as good as a 44.1/ 16 CD , least is I don’t hear a difference, not that that’s saying much!  
And if I need a CD Nero happily takes my 48/24 wave files and burns them at 44.1/16 automatically. 

And now with the Zoom interface I can record at 32 bit as well. I can stay 48/32 start to finish. 

[deflint]

John,

By moving to 48k it sounded like I would no longer be able to open existing projects without basically rebuilding the audio tracks as you explained. Do I have that right?

Really do appreciate everyone’s input here.

Thanks so much.

[John Vere]

You can open older projects that are 44.1. And you don’t have to convert them if they are not important or your not recording new audio. And some projects might be to messy to work with !  You have a choice.
 

I have lots of old backup projects etc that are 44.1 because 10 years ago I was still stuck there because of my set up with my Yamaha o1v which is only 44.1 via the SPDIF connection.  I switched to 48 for all new projects about 2014 when I got the Scarlett 6i6 interface.  
But I still would open and work on the 44.1 stuff with out issue. You just hear a slight pop when the clock rate changes.  
About 2 years ago when I got into making videos the 44.1 became more of an issue because I needed Cakewalk open and playing while recording screen captures to OBS studio.  That’s when I figured out how to convert projects to 48. 
So every time I opened a 44.1 I would take about 2-5 minutes to convert it to 48. Now everything that is important to me is 48.

The only downside is the fact that all audio tracks after the export will be continuous from start to end. This might be a problem for people with messy chopped up projects. 
I’m not one of those. I don’t keep extra takes or use take lanes. Those might be in a back up file but my latest versions of my songs are very straight forward and at the most only 8 audio tracks.  
Sure there’s a transition process that takes a bit of extra effort but for me it was time well spent.  

Edited October 17, 2023 by John Vere

[sjoens]

Windows 11 is always messing with sound settings - even when I tell it not to.  Almost every time I have sound issues, I have to reset the defaults.

Edited October 18, 2023 by sjoens

[mettelus]

Even in Windows 10 that happens a lot when connecting different devices or altering their settings; always start with Windows settings, then drill into apps. I have recently found out that it is still as big a PITA as it was to change "sound profiles." When starting CbB without an ASIO device connected (when one was previously used), it won't just shift modes to a previous (available) setup. I have to go in and manually and change driver mode, then select a device, then wait for the profiler to run. I don't have any other programs that do this... they just say "this wasn't found, want to use that instead?"

[John Vere]

This is why I have been recommending people set everything at 48. I totally stopped have conflicts once I did this. I’ve basically obliterated 44.1 from my system and music apps and now everything always works. 
The other thing I also recommend is to disable all other audio devices in Windows sound settings.
You really only need your interface for all your audio. I can run multiple Apps and the internet etc it all works together. 

[Glenn Stanton]

one challenge is when sample libraries (or some synths) only have 44.1 sample rates and the implicit conversion to 48 has (in my experience) caused more problems than not (which is why 2 years ago a reverted to 44.1 after using 48 for a couple of years and dealing with stoopid sample libraries and synths (of which i have too many to re-purchase or convert).  but now, once i have everything all settled at 44.1 - windows, synths, samples, etc i seldom run into issues. when i do need to run 48 or 96, it's because i have inbound client files or i'm deliberating recording at 96. in which case, i simply reset to 48/96 on the os, and set IO to 48/96 and i'm good. if i need to add something from a synth or sampler - i use Kontakt as that seems to have the least number of issues with 44.1 -> 48/96 implicit conversions.