Is there a an adjustable pre-roll time for punch recording?

[T Boog]

Cheers guys. I'm still fairly new to daw recording and I'm trying to speed up & simplify my punch recording process in Cakewalk.

I know how to drag on the time ruler to set a punch point but is there a way to set up a keyboard shortcut to pre-roll like 10 secs or so before the punch?

I find myself having to constantly set & delete markers for punches. This seems unnecessarily tedious. I miss my old digital recorder's pre roll button.

And if y'all have any other tips for speeding up punch recording, please share. 

Btw, I did watch the few YouTube vids on punching in Cakewalk but they're mostly beginner basics. I'm hoping that's not all there is. Thanks!

[57Gregy]

I usually start playback a few measures before the punch-in.

[reginaldStjohn]

You should be able to set a loop around your punch point. You can start the loop several measures before the punch point. Then either let it loop and make several takes or stop it before the loop and the now time should return to the loop start.

[T Boog]

23 hours ago, reginaldStjohn said:

You should be able to set a loop around your punch point.

Thanks. Yeah, I know about setting up a loop but that takes extra time too. It's adding an unnecessary extra step. I thought all daw's would have an adjustable pre roll/post roll punch setup. It's much faster. I like to rip thru a whole song a few bars at a time.

On my old recorder(from 1996), you just had to press "auto punch" and it would instantly pre roll & post roll to how ever many seconds u had it set up for. Honestly, my mind is blown that this feature isn't available in all daw's. Its such a simple thing. This seems like an unthought-out oversight. To have to manually set up the pre roll time with a loop or marker for every dang punch is just unnecessary in my view. But thanks anyway for the advice guys. 👍

Btw, anyone else with tips on how to streamline & speed up the punch process, please share 👍

[John Vere]

I’m not sure what the problem is? I do just like @57Gregy does.  
I click a measure or 2 ahead of the point and hit record.

Tip: To return to the same spot you se CTRL W which toggles now time between stop in place and return to where you started. Simple. 

[57Gregy]

There is also the metronome count-in. It can be set to any number of measures or beats to play before the tape rolls.
I never used it much because I could never hear it.

[T Boog]

2 hours ago, JohnnyV said:

I’m not sure what the problem is?

Cheers John. Well its def not an "end of the world" problem, I'm just trying to get a flow going with the punch process cause I punch a lot.

If Cakewalk had an auto-punch function, you'd only have to set ur punch point then hit one key and it'd automatically pre roll, record, post roll & loop(like my old recorder did). There'd be no need to grab the mouse again or set a loop or toggle CTRL W or anything.

When ur doing a whole lot of punching, every extra step is aggravating, esp when u know there's an easier & quicker way. But I will give the CTRL W thing another try and see if I can get a rhythm going with it. Thanks 😉

[T Boog]

Hey guys, I just looked up three other daws(Pro Tools, Cubase & Studio One) and of course, they all have pre roll & post roll punching. Looks like Cakewalk dropped the ball on this feature.

I also found this thread from last year where someone else was inquiring about this too. 

Unfortunately all the videos have been removed. I'd settle for the "clunky" workaround but I can't quite follow what's being described. If anyone understands what pre roll function the guy is talking about, please explain it to me. (Warning, the chat features some childish bickering 🫣)

[Glenn Stanton]

basically it looks like the help file suggests setting up a section to loop on, then set the area to punch in/out within that loop. seems straightforward enough.

Cakewalk - Cakewalk Documentation - Punch recording http://legacy.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Recording.25.html

 

[RBH]

I set a quick marker a measure before the general song region I'm punching in. I have a key binding  to jump forward or back to marker ( as well as forward and back by measure from the current position.) I just drag the marker around as a place holder for a measure before the punch point. It's very fast , very simple, and it's quicker to set than it would be to have a time input step * (more efficient than the other daws at setting a pre-roll.)

[T Boog]

On 9/22/2023 at 4:32 PM, Glenn Stanton said:

seems straightforward enough

Cheers Glenn. Well, a 3 speed transmission is straightforward too but there's no denying it requires extra steps compared to an automatic. 

To set a loop, u have to focus on the screen again, decide where u wanna start & stop the loop, then use ur mouse again, then make another click or two. This is ALL completely unnecessary.

Also, another benefit of an auto pre roll is that u get used to a consistent set time. For instance, if u have it set to a 7 sec preroll, u become used to that time and can better anticipate where the punch is. I speak from experience, this helps the rhythm of ur punching workflow. Plus, having an auto pre roll frees up the loop to use for something else. Like looping the entire section.

Bottom line, a huge part of good workflow is reducing unnecessary steps. Esp when it's a task u use a lot. I'm a fan of Cakewalk but when it comes to punching, I give them an F just for the lack of this simple, COMMON SENSE feature. They need to get on board with auto pre roll like other good daw's. And as someone mentioned in the other post, this should be an easy thing to program into the software.

But anyway, Thanks for responding Glenn. I appreciate it 😉

 

[T Boog]

On 9/22/2023 at 5:16 PM, RBH said:

as well as forward and back by measure from the current position

Thanks RBH. Can u please explain how to set up a shortcut to jump forward & back by measures like this?  I only know how to jump to markers.

And btw, with auto pre roll on other daw's, there's never really a need to change the pre roll or post roll times once u find what works for u. I ALWAYS had my pre roll set to 7 secs. As I said to Glenn, this also helps create a consistent feel for ur punch spot.

 So yeah, although I appreciate the tip, sliding around a marker is adding unnecessary steps compared to true auto punching. First u have to scan ur eyes for the marker then slide the pointer over the tiny marker then click & drag. Then, unless u set a loop, u have to press stop after u punch in then press a key to return to the marker.

If ur only doing a few punches this isn't a big deal but if u do lots of punches, this adds up to a big pain in the butt(& eyes). Auto punch with pre & post roll does all those little steps for u, giving u a faster, easier work flow. Again, I know this from experience. Cheers!

Edited September 24, 2023 by T Boog

[David Baay]

On 9/22/2023 at 1:02 PM, T Boog said:

Looks like Cakewalk dropped the ball on this feature.

You can add your name to the existing feature request in Feedback.

 

[T Boog]

2 hours ago, David Baay said:

You can add your name to the existing feature request in Feedback.

Thanks Dave. I liked/hearted the post, I guess that's what u meant by adding my name?

Btw, I couldn't help but notice there's 193 other feature request. I'm guessing I shouldn't hold my breath.

Or tell me, do the bakers have a good history of coming thru on many of these request?

 

[David Baay]

I'm not sure how the Bakers go about prioritizing feature requests, whether by likes or by the number of replies or just by periodically reviewing activity on the forum. I can't really say they've been terribly responsive to requests over the years. There are some that have been extremely popular that have yet to be implemented (one-track-to-multiple-synths MIDI routing and a chord track come to mind). Some were eventually delivered but took years of nagging (real-time synth recording, arranger track, tempo track). Sometimes there may be a feasibility limitation due to the way CbB is architected; I suspect this is what's preventing implementation of negative/pre-roll measures, for example.  But in a lot of cases, it may just come down to what developers are personally interested in working on or things that have to be done just to keep up with industry trends and compatibility demands (like the upcoming scalable UI). 

This FR seems like it would be quite easy to implement and pretty broadly appealing to  a lot of users. And it might help that many other DAWs already have it, but... you just never know what's going to get the Bakers attention.

[57Gregy]

Have you tried the metronome count-in?

[Glenn Stanton]

the only reason i use the loop and punch is doing multiple takes - like vocals - where i have the loop set to give me a measure or two, then the punch for the part, then loop to repeat and add more takes on it. i'm certainly all for an auto-roll though, but being a dinosaur (or a fossile thereof) i use markers and loops to perform the process 🙂 

[T Boog]

21 minutes ago, 57Gregy said:

Have you tried the metronome count-in?

Thanks for that Gregy but that would aggravate me much more than just setting a marker. I need to play along with my song.

Not to mention, after a certain point I tend to disregard the click & grid altogether. I like the timing to push & pull a bit.

 

 

[Starship Krupa]

10 hours ago, T Boog said:

I liked/hearted the post, I guess that's what u meant by adding my name?

IMO, just liking the post isn't enough if the feature is really important to you.

Replying to the topic, with your own reasons why it's important to you, is more likely to get and hold the attention of those making the decisions about how to allocate coding time. And don't worry about necro'ing an old thread, that just shows that the feature is desired by many people over a long period of time.

The devs don't have time to ready every post, but they will notice if the same topic keeps rising to the surface. And persistence is not futile. One of my own pet features/headaches was how Cakewalk named and numbered interface inputs, which was DIRE with my old Presonus Firepods. I lobbied for a great long time, others chimed in, and it eventually happened in a very elegant, flexible way.

All that you've said about how your hardware recorder had it, about how you researched PT, S1 and Cubase and they all had it, etc., helps make a better case for including it in Cakewalk Sonar (because Cakewalk by BandLab is now feature frozen).

AFAIK, the streamlined Cakewalk group at BandLab doesn't have a dedicated marketing person to keep an eye on the competition and suggest/insist that the product include certain new features. This can be a blessing, as it puts quality ahead of questionable "big" feature bloat, but maybe there's a downside as well.

This forum is the only way I know of short of making a YouTube video to advocate for features and fixes in the software.

Extra points for using the word "clunky" in your post.😆

(The only thing to leave out is a suggestion that it would be easy to do, because there's no way for us to know that.)

[T Boog]

https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/topic/45952-pre-roll-record/

1 hour ago, Glenn Stanton said:

i'm certainly all for an auto-roll though

Hey guys, please add ur names to this feature request.

This is more than a missing feature, this is a design oversight on something we use all the time.

Honestly, this alone has me rethinking buying the new Sonar. I punch a lot and I'm obviously spoiled to auto pre roll/ auto loop punching so I want a daw that can do it. Anyway, Thanks guys 👍

Edited September 24, 2023 by T Boog