Call and Response

[Barry Seymour]

Here's another effort from me and my jazz-rock band Sunstone. I think it's pretty polished, but there's always something that can be improved. Let me know your suggestions, and thanks!
 

 

[jack c.]

well done.jack c

[Teegarden]

Love the song, really my kind of music!

Few things I think c(s)hould be improved:

Timing issues keep distracting me from really enjoying the song. 
Sound is a bit squeezed, gives me ear fatigue. Could be a bit warmer. Some de-essing, a bit more depth. 
To make it more interesting you could consider adding a second/third voice while the song progresses over time and some other little different instrumental licks, percussive sounds that keep the attention of the listener. 

I find the overall composition great, especially the chord changes/melody in the second part.
 

[Bajan Blue]

Hi Barry - like this a lot - I agree with Teegarden a bit of de-essing could help

Cheers

Nigel

 

[Barry Seymour]

On 9/15/2023 at 1:27 PM, Teegarden said:

Love the song, really my kind of music!

Few things I think c(s)hould be improved:

Timing issues keep distracting me from really enjoying the song. 
Sound is a bit squeezed, gives me ear fatigue. Could be a bit warmer. Some de-essing, a bit more depth. 
To make it more interesting you could consider adding a second/third voice while the song progresses over time and some other little different instrumental licks, percussive sounds that keep the attention of the listener. 

I find the overall composition great, especially the chord changes/melody in the second part.
 

Thanks for the suggestions.

If by "timing issues" you mean horns, I'm afraid I've done all I can there.

As for the "de-essing" and the "squeezed" sound, my guess is you refer to the lead vocal. I'll be cutting that track again today. I've not been entirely happy with it.

[Teegarden]

1 hour ago, Barry Seymour said:

If by "timing issues" you mean horns, I'm afraid I've done all I can there.

As for the "de-essing" and the "squeezed" sound, my guess is you refer to the lead vocal. I'll be cutting that track again today. I've not been entirely happy with it.

Exactly, the horns, I really love them! They sound good, nice licks, just some very unfortunate timing issues. Can't you use Melodyne to get them straight? Maybe some other stem separation tool?

The lead vocal could really benefit from de-essing (again maybe Melodyne?) and perhaps some warmth. Other than that I think the feel of the vocal is nice and has the right cool vibe!

[Barry Seymour]

7 hours ago, Teegarden said:

Exactly, the horns, I really love them! They sound good, nice licks, just some very unfortunate timing issues. Can't you use Melodyne to get them straight? Maybe some other stem separation tool?

The lead vocal could really benefit from de-essing (again maybe Melodyne?) and perhaps some warmth. Other than that I think the feel of the vocal is nice and has the right cool vibe!

I've already spent too much time tightening up the timing for many of the horn parts, but those melismas are a bitch.  I'll take a look with Melodyne... I suspect I'll have to learn more about the upgraded version I bought a few months ago.

I had some weirdness I didn't quite understand with the vocal track - it was getting compressed, and I couldn't get rid of it, even when I re-recorded over it. The solution was to delete it completely and create a new track. Now it sounds 'Normal.' I'll be working on mixing that soon.

Thanks!

[hsmusic]

Catchy tune, been humming the melody all though dinner!

To me it sounds like you used allot of processing like imaging/ spatial/ aural exciter. It might be too much, might be out of phase as well.

This might come in handy- https://mixcheckstudio.roexaudio.com/

I also noticed some glitches/ clipping @2:17 , 3:21 ( sounds like the vocs)

Cook track, enjoyed it.

[Barry Seymour]

17 hours ago, hsmusic said:

Catchy tune, been humming the melody all though dinner!

To me it sounds like you used allot of processing like imaging/ spatial/ aural exciter. It might be too much, might be out of phase as well.

This might come in handy- https://mixcheckstudio.roexaudio.com/

I also noticed some glitches/ clipping @2:17 , 3:21 ( sounds like the vocs)

Cook track, enjoyed it.

I do use a plugin called 'Wider' - maybe I'm a bit guilty of overusing it. I'll take a look, thanks.

[Barry Seymour]

Okay, here's a new mix...

• More clean up of timing on the horns
• New vocal - strikes a good balance between the first two takes, plus better sound quality
• Added some sparkly guitar beneath the last two verses to add variety

Let me know what you think.

 

[Teegarden]

Just love it, great, much better!  Anything else is mainly a matter of mixing taste.

 

[Barry Seymour]

Final Video! Thanks, everyone, for the feedback!
 

 

[Lynn Wilson]

This is an excellent example of what I call a cerebral song.  It's very clever on several levels, and your vocal delivers the goods.  I wish I could say as much for the horns.  The arrangement is good, but the performance doesn't quite get past the awkward stage in that one section.  Otherwise, thumbs up.

[Barry Seymour]

2 hours ago, Lynn Wilson said:

This is an excellent example of what I call a cerebral song.  It's very clever on several levels, and your vocal delivers the goods.  I wish I could say as much for the horns.  The arrangement is good, but the performance doesn't quite get past the awkward stage in that one section.  Otherwise, thumbs up.

Yeah, I'm afraid you're right. We've all agreed to avoid overcomplicated runs like that in future arrangements. I don't have a good enough installation of Melodyne to fix that. Plus I'm still unclear as to how to show multiple tracks in the Melodyne editor so I can line stuff up. Gotta go back to Mike Enjo's Melodyne tutorial...

[Old Joad]

Cool song 😎

[DeeringAmps]

Barry, I’ve been kind of “lurking” on this one since you put it up. I didn’t have a bunch of “issues” with the original to tell the truth. I think this 

On 9/17/2023 at 9:51 PM, Barry Seymour said:

already spent too much time tightening up the timing

says a lot about getting it “right” at the tracking stage. I realize that sometimes we have to make the “best” of what we have though. 
Your songwriting and performances are excellent as always. Is the final mix “better”? Yes, but it seems you “struggled” to get there. Tighten up the tracking, mix it and move on. 
Not trying to be “critical”, just thinking we all let the “technical” side dominate the “creative” side. 
It’s a “buzz” kill for me….

t

almost forgot 👍’s

[Barry Seymour]

On 9/25/2023 at 8:50 AM, DeeringAmps said:

Barry, I’ve been kind of “lurking” on this one since you put it up. I didn’t have a bunch of “issues” with the original to tell the truth. I think this 

says a lot about getting it “right” at the tracking stage. I realize that sometimes we have to make the “best” of what we have though. 
Your songwriting and performances are excellent as always. Is the final mix “better”? Yes, but it seems you “struggled” to get there. Tighten up the tracking, mix it and move on. 
Not trying to be “critical”, just thinking we all let the “technical” side dominate the “creative” side. 
It’s a “buzz” kill for me….

t

almost forgot 👍’s

I've had conversations with my old band mates (emphasis on the "old," we're all in our late 60s!) about this very thing.  Only one of the horn players is even close to being a professional musician - he still has his chops. The rest are more problematic. (We're not 18 any more!) I have told them my overriding goals are to write songs I want to write and have them play on them. I love these guys and want to give us an EP (at least) of professionally recorded songs, since in the early 1970s we had none of that.  In the end, this means I have to spend a lot of time lining up horn parts. For now, it's worth it, but yeah, it can get old.

This is a separate issue from the mix, which is where I've traditionally needed the most advice and constructive criticism. And I got some good feedback, including on the Facebook forum for Creative Sauce.

A side note; I found some good brass/horn/sax VSTs, which I used on our next song.  In fact, they were scary good, they sounded amazing. Then when the actual horn parts came in I was back to tweaking, adjusting, moving, stretching, EQing, etc. etc. etc. But as I mentioned, having my guys on the track is important to me. So for now, I put in the work.

My conundrum is - do I crack the whip? Force them to do more takes until it's better? I have to think about that one.

[DeeringAmps]

I’d go with encouraging them to rehearse it a bit more. I get that having “your guys” is way more important than “perfection”. Keep on rockin’ Barry! The material is excellent and your performances are as well. 
“Strock” the band, don’t lean on them. 
Most importantly, enjoy!

t

Edited September 27, 2023 by DeeringAmps