Please add a sampler to Cakewalk

[Ewoof]

I honestly do not know how many times I have requested this but this is a major issue that I am not understanding why it isn't being solved. I've used Cakewalk for a long time and I can say that it is one of the best DAWS for mixing. However, it is miles away from the competition in production because they do not have an integrated sampler and a good step sequencer. 

This topic is to all the people who say "Just use third party samplers". 

Here are the reasons why Third-Party Plugins Sampler cannot be depended on.

Samplers are at the bottom of the food chain of for free and paid third-party Vsts

It makes sense because 90% of most DAWS literally have an integrated sampler with features that would be hard for a third-party VST to do. Thus, there is no motivation for companies to make samplers because they know that very few people would buy. This is why you never or rarely see paid samplers and always see free samplers. 

Third Parties are not that that great

I am not going to deny that there are some good samplers. However, the very few good samplers which are there are either cpu intensive(Ex. Komplete Kontrol), crashes a lot(Ex. Grace and TW16x etc),  or are good but are severely limited by the DAW(Ex. Sitala). The limitations these samplers face is especially seen when you want to program your samples using the step sequencer.

The step sequencer has to be well optimized for the sampler

Cakewalk's sampler is optimized for drum vsts and some drum samplers(Ex. Sitala).  However, the samplers that changes the note of the sample have different root notes seen  in the step sequencer. This makes the step sequencer harder to use and sometimes unusable. 

 

I hope of these reasons shows why most sampler third-parties are not reliable and the good ones are extremely limited . This should also show that Cakewalk is the best option and possibly the only way to fully fix the sampler issue.

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

53 minutes ago, E-Woof Music said:

I honestly do not know how many times I have requested this

There's already about a  half a dozen requests on this forum for it - Never mind the old Sonar forum:

 

[Ewoof]

I just don't know why this has been overlooked for so long. I have never seen any beat making videos, except for live playing, that doesn't use samplers.  It is an essential part of modern day music production.  At least I would like to know whether they are working on a sampler or not. 

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

9 hours ago, E-Woof Music said:

I just don't know why this has been overlooked for so long. I have never seen any beat making videos, except for live playing, that doesn't use samplers.  It is an essential part of modern day music production.  At least I would like to know whether they are working on a sampler or not. 

Yeah I agree hence my original post, Cakewalk has lost a generation of beatmakers whose production methods and skillset is different from what you might call a more traditional musician.

When Cakewalk was one of the top dogs of the DAW scene programs like FL and Reason were more like kids toys than serious competition. That's not been true for many years now and the music scene has changed.

With the popularity of the Bandlab App they are in a unique position to capitalize on that younger audience now more than ever and a great built in sampler environment could help attract those users crossing over to a more professional App.

 

[Will.]

15 hours ago, E-Woof Music said:

I honestly do not know how many times I have requested this but this is a major issue that I am not understanding why it isn't being solved. I've used Cakewalk for a long time and I can say that it is one of the best DAWS for mixing. However, it is miles away from the competition in production because they do not have an integrated sampler and a good step sequencer. 

Cakewalk had one, It was called"Dropzone." I guess they dont own the license to it. Just like "True Piano" that used to come with Studio Instruments. 

[Will.]

2 hours ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

With the popularity of the Bandlab App they are in a unique position to capitalize on that younger audience now more than ever and a great built in sampler environment could help attract those users crossing over to a more professional App.

 

Been trying to help with this for a while now, but it falls on deaf ears. If you don't at least get a 10+ positive review, it's bye-bye idea.

I work with the major genre's that the youth creates today on a daily basis. So, I know what's needed to get the youth to migrate over, but you can only do so much, if the senior members of the community on the forum don't find the request useful. 

The genre's these youth create, don't require them to use articulation maps. A few in the class I give said, the Arranger is "useless" too. I guess the Aim is more on classical music for Cakewalk. Although you can create any form of music in Cakewalk, it's main Aim is classical music. Which doesn't make sense seeing that it's free and more youth are downloading it, but as soon as hey discover it's limitation for EDM, HipHop, House and Dance, they move back to their piracy habits. 

Edited November 2, 2020 by Will_Kaydo
Typo's

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

53 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said:

I work with the major genre's that the youth creates today on a daily basis. So, I know what's needed to get the youth to migrate over, but you can just do that much, if the senior members of the community in the forum don't find the request to their useful. 

I'm not sure what the makeup of the Dev team is or what sort of music they create but I do feel like if there was a Hip-Hop / EDM producer on the team this would be a priority.  Like it or not Hip Hop is the biggest genre of the past decade.

 Cakewalk is pretty adaptable but I would say it adapts least well to the Hip Hop /EDM crowd and they're the main market now. It's okay if you've used it for 20+ years like me as you can work around it but  it would probably take something pretty killer to draw the kids back back now. 'Free' is half of that equation because you can't compete with Free. 

The other half would be a great sampler workflow ..Something like Splice Sounds integration would be awesome - imagine how powerful that could be.... 

For reference here is an EDM track I made in Cakewalk that was used in something popular 

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by Mark Morgon-Shaw

[Will.]

28 minutes ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

I'm not sure what the makeup of the Dev team is or what sort of music they create but I do feel like if there was a Hip-Hop / EDM producer on the team this would be a priority.  Like it or not Hip Hop is the biggest genre of the past decade.

 Cakewalk is pretty adaptable but I would say it adapts least well to the Hip Hop /EDM crowd and they're the main market now. It's okay if you've used it for 20+ years like me as you can work around it but  it would probably take something pretty killer to draw the kids back back now. 'Free' is half of that equation because you can't compete with Free. 

The other half would be a great sampler workflow ..Something like Splice Sounds integration would be awesome - imagine how powerful that could be.... 

For reference here is an EDM track I made in Cakewalk that was used in something popular 

 

I myself create HipHop and EDM daily in Cakewalk. It's only if I have a client sitting next to me and request to using a DAW they're familiar with to help with idea's they want for their instrumental tracks -- but when I'm all by myself, I use cakewalk. Yeah, of course external plugins will be required to create a certain sound which is extra work, but hey 12 years in the making using cakewalk, I know my way around the DAW. 

Here's another (What I think will be a great solution for developments.) Idea I've posted. Check it out and maybe help adding to the idea. It might caught someone's attention on the Dev team if we keep it alive. 

https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/topic/21193-mobile-app/

 

[Ewoof]

6 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

Been trying to help with this for a while now, but it falls on deaf ears. If you don't at least get a 10+ positive review, it's bye-bye idea.

I work with the major genre's that the youth creates today on a daily basis. So, I know what's needed to get the youth to migrate over, but you can only do so much, if the senior members of the community on the forum don't find the request useful. 

The genre's these youth create, don't require them to use articulation maps. A few in the class I give said, the Arranger is "useless" too. I guess the Aim is more on classical music for Cakewalk. Although you can create any form of music in Cakewalk, it's main Aim is classical music. Which doesn't make sense seeing that it's free and more youth are downloading it, but as soon as hey discover it's limitation for EDM, HipHop, House and Dance, they move back to their piracy habits. 

It is unfortunate that the new producers on Cakewalk do not come to the forums but use reddit and discord to solve their issues they have with Cakewalk. 

[Will.]

1 hour ago, E-Woof Music said:

It is unfortunate that the new producers on Cakewalk do not come to the forums but use reddit and discord to solve their issues they have with Cakewalk. 

That's why we need a mobile app too. Help us get there by liking this thread and add some input to it, if you can to meep it alive. You can share it on reddit too. 

https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/topic/21193-mobile-app/

 

[chris.r]

OMG the new v2 sampler-track in cubase is killing it even more now, just check it out (and watch the whole video from beginning for more):

 

such feature can speed up your work by miles if you need to cook up a track from sample(s) or loop pack.. no idea why anyone wouldn't want it in cakewalk (and EDM is not my main style )

Edited November 12, 2020 by chris.r

[estolad]

Yes this Sampler track looks amazing. This, together with the Spectralayers One Instrument, makes Cubase an awesome DAW to work with loops and make remixes or mashups.

If Cakewalk would have something similar it would be awesome.

[GreenLight]

Yeah, Cakewalk would definitely benefit from an integrated sampler track. +1

Together with a souped up Step Sequencer 2.0, we'd be amassing Live kids in no time! (I would love a beefed up Step Sequencer!)

[Xel Ohh]

On 11/12/2020 at 4:54 AM, estolad said:

Yes this Sampler track looks amazing. This, together with the Spectralayers One Instrument, makes Cubase an awesome DAW to work with loops and make remixes or mashups.

If Cakewalk would have something similar it would be awesome.

Right now we can only hope that they will try and add something similar but it would be a big project so wee shall see..👀 people have been asking for years now.. Just like the articulation map that was justed sdded its going to yake some time to get it going..🤔 +1 for Sampler

Edited December 8, 2020 by Xel Ohh

[chris.r]

On 12/8/2020 at 7:19 AM, Xel Ohh said:

Right now we can only hope that they will try and add something similar but it would be a big project so wee shall see..👀 people have been asking for years now.. Just like the articulation map that was justed sdded its going to yake some time to get it going..🤔 +1 for Sampler

Even something very basic for beginning would be awesome. Cubase' sampler track was evolving step by step and now it's at version 2.

I'm not a programmer but I wouldn't say for sure it has to be huge project. If Bandlab owns the rgc:audio's sfz code, the same that was later used to create Rapture and Dimension Pro, maybe they could use it as a starting point for a simple sample track as well. With time then it could evolve just like Cubase' did.

Edited December 11, 2020 by chris.r

[Maestro]

On 11/1/2020 at 12:58 PM, E-Woof Music said:

Here are the reasons why Third-Party Plugins Sampler cannot be depended on.

People have been depending on them for decades and doing just fine.

What makes them so dependable in other DAWs for other people, but so undependable in Cakewalk/SONAR for you?

What you have written... is not very convincing.

But I'm not opposed to adding it.  I just think the rationale (designed to avoid people suggesting alternative solutions) is rather weak 😉

Steinberg had a 50% off sale on Groove Agent 5 not long ago.  Not sure how people can want a Drum Sampler so bad, yet ignore a deal like that.

I could never use Sitala.  Feels like generic F/OSS, and isn't really offering the functionality that would mamke it worth running a whole plugin to do what it does.  I'd rather just create Drum Kit patches in my multi-timbral Sampler, which has better Sample Editing, FX, and Modulation options than that.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Maestro

[Ewoof]

3 hours ago, Maestro said:

People have been depending on them for decades and doing just fine.

What makes them so dependable in other DAWs for other people, but so undependable in Cakewalk/SONAR for you?

What you have written... is not very convincing.

But I'm not opposed to adding it.  I just think the rationale (designed to avoid people suggesting alternative solutions) is rather weak 😉

Steinberg had a 50% off sale on Groove Agent 5 not long ago.  Not sure how people can want a Drum Sampler so bad, yet ignore a deal like that.

I could never use Sitala.  Feels like generic F/OSS, and isn't really offering the functionality that would mamke it worth running a whole plugin to do what it does.  I'd rather just create Drum Kit patches in my multi-timbral Sampler, which has better Sample Editing, FX, and Modulation options than that.

I feel that is more of tolerance not dependence. Many users have to tolerate which plugins which easily crash,  are cpu intensive, and none of them are not well optimized so much that the step sequencer feels useless. Cakewalk excels at almost everything but producing. It is known in the producing world that the go to is FL Studio ,Ableton and Logic are the go to. I'm not taking Cakewalk for granted but the new generation of producers need a sampler a fundamental thing. I want Cakewalk to be a household name and not make people feel that Cakewalk is inferior because it is free. The developers have made a lot of progress in making new features . Therefore, I feel that this should be their next focus looking at how fundamental having a sampler in your DAW is. 

I honestly did not know about Groove Agent but $90 is a hard pill to swallow. This sale isn't guaranteed which means people have to pay $180 just for a sampler. That is a $20 less than a Fl Studio which has looks like it has a better sampler ( mostly due to it's tight integration with Fl Studio), plus  the hundreds of free plugins and instruments it gives. That's the whole dilemma of Samplers. Every popular DAW has it which means that very few companies are going to put in resources to make a sampler because the know the demand isn't high enough.

You just made my point that the samplers out there are not that great. This has to explain to you how hard it is to get a good sampler which also by chance works well with Cakewalk. If there were good and reasonable priced samplers I wouldn't be complaining. But the issues with third party especially their lack of optimization with Cakewalk slows down the music making process. 

[Maestro]

11 hours ago, E-Woof Music said:

I feel that is more of tolerance not dependence. Many users have to tolerate which plugins which easily crash,  are cpu intensive, and none of them are not well optimized so much that the step sequencer feels useless. Cakewalk excels at almost everything but producing. It is known in the producing world that the go to is FL Studio ,Ableton and Logic are the go to. I'm not taking Cakewalk for granted but the new generation of producers need a sampler a fundamental thing. I want Cakewalk to be a household name and not make people feel that Cakewalk is inferior because it is free. The developers have made a lot of progress in making new features . Therefore, I feel that this should be their next focus looking at how fundamental having a sampler in your DAW is. 

 

 

 

 

Uh...  What?  That's quite the oxymoron. People depended on them because that is what they had and using the Sampler completely offset any perceived issues some people may have had with them.  The benefits far outweighed the deficits.  Either you use the Sampler, or you waste countless hours manually doing (with DAW tools) what it does much better out of the box.

Like I said, CPU Intensity depends on your spec package.  What CPU is in your PC?  I am not seeing Serum-level CPU use with Komplete Kontrol on my systems (Laptop and Desktop), so I'm not really understanding where this is coming from.

When using KK as a Sampler Track, you are not running Synths or Virtual Instruments in Komplete Kontrol.  You're simply loading the Sample into the instance, using the Sample Editor to edit to taste, and then playing it back chromatically via a MIDI Track.  I am not asking anyone to load Massive X in Komplete Kontrol.  This works pretty much identically - for the most part - to the FL Studio Sampler Channel plugin, which itself is not free in terms of processing.

FL is popular with Beatmakers.  Producers in the EDM/Trance/etc. genres tend to bias HEAVILY to Live, and most people go straight to Live Suite (and, increasingly, Bitwig with people really into sound design).  FL is popular with Hip Hop and Trap Producers who like it's pattern-based production features.

Lastly, FL Studio is known for having some pretty CPU inefficient plugins.  Even things like the stock Parametric EQ is known to be fairly CPU intensive, in comparison to third party plugins or stock plugins in other DAWs.  Being a first party bundled plugin does not guarantee it will be free of bugs, be CPU efficient, or never (rather, hardy ever) crash.  History has disproven this theory, time and time again.

Quote

I honestly did not know about Groove Agent but $90 is a hard pill to swallow. This sale isn't guaranteed which means people have to pay $180 just for a sampler. That is a $20 less than a Fl Studio which has looks like it has a better sampler ( mostly due to it's tight integration with Fl Studio), plus  the hundreds of free plugins and instruments it gives. That's the whole dilemma of Samplers. Every popular DAW has it which means that very few companies are going to put in resources to make a sampler because the know the demand isn't high enough.

 

 

 

 

 

The sale is guaranteed when it's running.  I'm pretty sure the Sale was advertised in the Deals section of this forum (Edit: Yep, sure was). I mention this mostly becausue people keep talking about Sitala. (Groove Agent 5 includes 30GB+ of content... 😉)

This makes no sense, given the number of third party samplers on the market.

Quote

You just made my point that the samplers out there are not that great. This has to explain to you how hard it is to get a good sampler which also by chance works well with Cakewalk. If there were good and reasonable priced samplers I wouldn't be complaining. But the issues with third party especially their lack of optimization with Cakewalk slows down the music making process. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't.  I think what is available often works well.  You're just cherry picking the few that you don't think work "well enough" because you're pushing for a first-party option (because you're convinced that they are better de facto, which is [usually] not [always] the case).  That as my point.  The topic lead-off was constructed in a way that basically prohibits mention of viable third party options to leave room only for what the OP wants.  If the bakers spent all of their time adding features redundant with easily accessible plugins, then when are they actually going to get around to doing things like improving the Staff View, Adding VCAs, Improving Drum Maps, etc.

You know, things you cannot "just fix with a plugin."

The reason why Articulation Lanes and the Arranger Matter is precisely for this reason.  I cannot just go to N-I and download an Arranger View for Cakewalk, or an Articulation Manager/Lane.  I can go there and get a Sampler, for free, and it works... very well.

I can cherry pick areas of Cakewalk that aren't great and tell people that it's a horrible DAW and they should just default to Live or FL for production, but you'd make the same argument that I am making - for exactly the same reasons I am making it.  In fact, that is exactly what everyone here was doing when the DAW was criticized for including very old, out of date stock plugins...  Telling the people complaining they should just go and download MeldaProduction Freebies, etc.

The market being chock full of third-party options is going to make any argument based around assumptive "first party is always better" look weak.

The reason why people go to FL or Ableton has to do with the workflow and features of those DAWs beyond a native Sampler (or even Sample Editor, which I really want).

People are leaving FL or Ableton for Pro Tools, Cubase, Digital Performer, etc. just because they have a Sampler.  And the fact that most people going to Live are going straight to Live Suite ($750) tells me that price is not really a factor to many of these people.  The reason why many people use FL Studio (the upstarts, anyways) is because it is easily pirated.  So, as far as those people are concerned, the price of Cakewalk and FL Studio are the same.

In addition to that, there is a MASSIVE amount of Tutorial content for Production of those genres of music (Trap, Hip Hop, Trance, EDM, D&B, etc.) in those DAWs.  Courses on Groove3.  Production Templates everywhere.  Presets and FX Chains available for their Instruments/Synths.  The same ecosystem of content does not exist for Cakewalk.  At the end of the day, it's the workflow, feature disparity, and mindshare disparity that keeps peopel off of Cakewalk - not the lack of a Sampler.  That is a trivial problem to solve.  The others aren't.

Many EDM producers are already using Samplers like Battery, etc. for Drums, anyways.

I am constantly pushing for people to go with Cakewalk when they ask about what "cheap/free" DAW to use, and it's hard to get them on board because the music production user base is very pro-piracy; and you cannot use price as a competitive advantage.  Also, these people love to bandwagon what is popular, or heavily used, and will get FL Studio or Live simply so that they can say they use it and tap into the ecosystem of users and content out there.  Using Ableton Live is like buying a MacBook or Gucci shoes to these people. It's basically the luxury brand of Music Production.  FL is often nothing more than the illegitimately acquired fallback for people who can't afford Live.

Same thing happens with Reaper for recording/mixing.  People will literally argue with you that REAPER is "free," when it very clearly is not.  I've grown exasperated trying to fight against that, and I'm pretty agnostic when it comes to DAWs (or, rather, equally critical across the board).

Adding a first party Sampler isn't even the tip of the ice berg as far as getting "Live Kiddies" onto Cakewalk.  This is going to be like getting Recording Studios off of Pro Tools.  Good Luck.

And I should also mention that quite a few Performance and Pad Controllers are designed for Live, and don't work nearly as well with Cakewalk (or many other DAWs).

Edited December 12, 2020 by Maestro

[Ewoof]

1 hour ago, Maestro said:

Uh...  What?  That's quite the oxymoron. People depended on them because that is what they had and using the Sampler completely offset any perceived issues some people may have had with them.  The benefits far outweighed the deficits.  Either you use the Sampler, or you waste countless hours manually doing (with DAW tools) what it does much better out of the box.

Like I said, CPU Intensity depends on your spec package.  What CPU is in your PC?  I am not seeing Serum-level CPU use with Komplete Kontrol on my systems (Laptop and Desktop), so I'm not really understanding where this is coming from.

When using KK as a Sampler Track, you are not running Synths or Virtual Instruments in Komplete Kontrol.  You're simply loading the Sample into the instance, using the Sample Editor to edit to taste, and then playing it back chromatically via a MIDI Track.  I am not asking anyone to load Massive X in Komplete Kontrol.  This works pretty much identically - for the most part - to the FL Studio Sampler Channel plugin, which itself is not free in terms of processing.

You have a good point. You are especially right about the CPU discussion.  But you have to agree with me that if a sampler isn't well optimized with a DAW, it can waste time. For example, if you want to use a step sequencer with any of these samplers, you would realize that the root notes do not match which means you have to manually do it.  

I'm just saying that they are harder to use and would be an improvement with the "production workflow" in Cakewalk. 

1 hour ago, Maestro said:

FL is popular with Beatmakers.  Producers in the EDM/Trance/etc. genres tend to bias HEAVILY to Live, and most people go straight to Live Suite (and, increasingly, Bitwig with people really into sound design).  FL is popular with Hip Hop and Trap Producers who like it's pattern-based production features.

Lastly, FL Studio is known for having some pretty CPU inefficient plugins.  Even things like the stock Parametric EQ is known to be fairly CPU intensive, in comparison to third party plugins or stock plugins in other DAWs.  Being a first party bundled plugin does not guarantee it will be free of bugs, be CPU efficient, or never (rather, hardy ever) crash.  History has disproven this theory, time and time again.

I'm saying that the new generation of producers are now mostly hip-hop and EDM producers. I should have clarify my what I was trying to say when talking about the new generation of producers. Cakewalk is getting an influx of people who want to learn how to produce these genres. The workflow is simply harder than the other DAWs. That is why I am saying bring a sampler or a well optimized sampler which takes advantage of the features of Cakewalk would improve music production a lot. Cakewalk is already one of the best in terms of mixing. But you have to agree with me that it is not as good in producing these compared to other DAWs.

And also, you are telling me that an average person who is trying to get the most out of their money will pay for a sampler which the same price of a DAW that has good and usable plugins and a workflow which makes it easier for them to produce.  And also technically, Fl studio is less prone to crashes compared to Cakewalk. The Cakewalk team have an incredible job to make Cakewalk stable but it is more prone to crashing than the other popular DAWs. 

1 hour ago, Maestro said:

People are leaving FL or Ableton for Pro Tools, Cubase, Digital Performer, etc. just because they have a Sampler.  And the fact that most people going to Live are going straight to Live Suite ($750) tells me that price is not really a factor to many of these people.  The reason why many people use FL Studio (the upstarts, anyways) is because it is easily pirated.  So, as far as those people are concerned, the price of Cakewalk and FL Studio are the same.

In addition to that, there is a MASSIVE amount of Tutorial content for Production of those genres of music (Trap, Hip Hop, Trance, EDM, D&B, etc.) in those DAWs.  Courses on Groove3.  Production Templates everywhere.  Presets and FX Chains available for their Instruments/Synths.  The same ecosystem of content does not exist for Cakewalk.  At the end of the day, it's the workflow, feature disparity, and mindshare disparity that keeps peopel off of Cakewalk - not the lack of a Sampler.  That is a trivial problem to solve.  The others aren't.

People are leaving DAWs for having a sampler?? I feel like this is a typing error.

Also, those are not the people I was trying to appeal to when discussing. I apologize for not clarifying.  I'm looking at the upcoming producers.  

Also, right now I can say that now more tutorials are been made for Cakewalk more than it was Sonar. It is currently less but I can say that in the future, many people will make more videos. I'm currently one of them. Those resources of tutorials etc can only increase if more people use it. Cakewalk isn't as well known compared to the others but I believe that if they keep on improving the DAW and more people make YouTube channels it can become as big as the popular DAWs. Here is my reasoning: 

On 5/2/2020 at 8:52 AM, E-Woof Music said:

I understand that Cakewalk used to be about $500 which meant that beginners were not who they were appealing to, but to the pros who did not really need built-in instrument plugins because they can afford to buy or have amassed a lot of plugins throughout the years or pros who mostly used Cakewalk for recording, mixing and mastering. However, the Cakewalk Sonar then doesn't have the advantage the present Cakewalk has, which is a loyal fanbase of people who haven't even used Cakewalk before : "Bandlab Users."  Let's use logic pro for an example: Logic pro's success can be seen in their business model which is, "Attract beginners with Garageband and hope that they would eventually upgrade to Logic Pro." Cakewalk now has more than 3 million people using Bandlab and some of them have upgraded to Cakewalk. In fact I was one of them. I used Bandlab for a year then came to Cakewalk

Cakewalk has the potential of bringing in new producers who came from Bandlab. I'm one of them and I know others who also had a similar experience. Cakewalk is quickly becoming a go to place. With every single update they make they are removing many of the reasons why people were discouraging Cakewalk. I just feel that this is going to help Cakewalk by catering to the new generation of producers which mostly want to make the songs that they hear on the radio(Hip-Hop, EDM, Pop, etc).

 

1 hour ago, Maestro said:

I didn't.  I think what is available often works well.  You're just cherry picking the few that you don't think work "well enough" because you're pushing for a first-party option (because you're convinced that they are better de facto, which is [usually] not [always] the case).  That as my point.  The topic lead-off was constructed in a way that basically prohibits mention of viable third party options to leave room only for what the OP wants.  If the bakers spent all of their time adding features redundant with easily accessible plugins, then when are they actually going to get around to doing things like improving the Staff View, Adding VCAs, Improving Drum Maps, etc.

You know, things you cannot "just fix with a plugin."

The reason why Articulation Lanes and the Arranger Matter is precisely for this reason.  I cannot just go to N-I and download an Arranger View for Cakewalk, or an Articulation Manager/Lane.  I can go there and get a Sampler, for free, and it works... very well.

I can cherry pick areas of Cakewalk that aren't great and tell people that it's a horrible DAW and they should just default to Live or FL for production, but you'd make the same argument that I am making - for exactly the same reasons I am making it.  In fact, that is exactly what everyone here was doing when the DAW was criticized for including very old, out of date stock plugins...  Telling the people complaining they should just go and download MeldaProduction Freebies, etc.

The market being chock full of third-party options is going to make any argument based around assumptive "first party is always better" look weak.

The reason why people go to FL or Ableton has to do with the workflow and features of those DAWs beyond a native Sampler (or even Sample Editor, which I really want).

Articulation and Arranger is important. I was one of people who requested for articulation lanes there since I make film scores. Now Cakewalk is an awesome DAW for especially for making genres such as film Score . The issue is that for hip-hop, pop, and EDM, which are the popular music of the 21'st Century, they use the sampling workflow. A sampler has to be considered since it is so fundamental that I think this is something that Cakewalk should do next. Also, I'm really curious what other features you think Cakewalk should do next. 

2 hours ago, Maestro said:

I am constantly pushing for people to go with Cakewalk when they ask about what "cheap/free" DAW to use, and it's hard to get them on board because the music production user base is very pro-piracy; and you cannot use price as a competitive advantage.  Also, these people love to bandwagon what is popular, or heavily used, and will get FL Studio or Live simply so that they can say they use it and tap into the ecosystem of users and content out there.  Using Ableton Live is like buying a MacBook or Gucci shoes to these people. It's basically the luxury brand of Music Production.  FL is often nothing more than the illegitimately acquired fallback for people who can't afford Live.

Same thing happens with Reaper for recording/mixing.  People will literally argue with you that REAPER is "free," when it very clearly is not.  I've grown exasperated trying to fight against that, and I'm pretty agnostic when it comes to DAWs (or, rather, equally critical across the board).

Adding a first party Sampler isn't even the tip of the ice berg as far as getting "Live Kiddies" onto Cakewalk.  This is going to be like getting Recording Studios off of Pro Tools.  Good Luck.

And I should also mention that quite a few Performance and Pad Controllers are designed for Live, and don't work nearly as well with Cakewalk (or many other DAWs).

Yes you are right about the piracy now not making price a determining factor.  And yes what gives these DAWs more value and workflow. I just want to make a point that a sampler does add value to the workflow of Cakewalk and brings more people to use it. Many are coming from Bandlab and have a good impression of Bandlab already and more people are using them. There are a lot of factors which determine what DAW to use and there is a lot II would like to respond to but the whole point was to say that adding a sampler is a good next step in improving the experience in Cakewalk. 

I am open to hear where you think Cakewalk  should focus more on.

[Maestro]

1 minute ago, E-Woof Music said:

Also, those are not the people I was trying to appeal to when discussing. I apologize for not clarifying.

Not an error on your part, but mine, as I'm referring more holistically to what is also being discussed in another thread on the same topic.