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Will.

Mobile app

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Hi Forum owners and members. 

I love this forum, it's a great educational platform on all things related to Cakewalk and music in general.

I think we need to turn this into a mobile app and use it's revenue from all downloads and app usage to create new FX/instrument plugins for the DAW and more. 

I think it will make a great investment on future builds. The biggest mobile users today is your youth. You will then have your Bandlab Users and Cakewalk users joining in on the hype and sharing music on the mobile app. We can then link the mobile app to a new category on the forum right here to download or Stream their tracks/albums from the Mobile App, but need to think revenue wise with this. 

Edited by Will_Kaydo
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@Will_Kaydo

Your suggestion is unclear.  Are you suggesting a Cakewalk by Bandlab DAW mobile app or for this forum to have a phone screen compatible mode?

Also, I don't understand where the revenue is coming from.  Why would someone pay for an app when the forum and DAW is free?

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46 minutes ago, Jim Fogle said:

@Will_Kaydo

Your suggestion is unclear.  Are you suggesting a Cakewalk by Bandlab DAW mobile app or for this forum to have a phone screen compatible mode?

No! A MOBILE APP FOR THE FORUM.  Like Reverbnation; Soundcloud; Beatstars and so many others like them.

How do Whatsapp; Facebook; Twitter or Instagram make revenue? By the usage of users using the app, right? So that capital can then be used to develop new plugins for Cakewalk "The DAW" -- It's kind of clear in the Post. 

Users will be able to make money on it much like how anyone can make money on Itunes; Youtube Music and Spotify with Free Streaming Services. Just because Cakewalk is free, doesn't mean you can't make money from it to improve the product. 

This has nothing to do with Cakewalk the DAW, but only the "platform" you're using to communicate right now. So its the website (This Forum) as a "mobile app."

Edited by Will_Kaydo
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Since BandLab are not interested in monetizing the app itself, I doubt that they'd be much interested in monetizing the app's support forum.

BandLab already have platforms where users may publish their music for free and even sell it if they want to, without BandLab taking any cut. They seem pretty firm in not wishing to make any direct money from their DAW-related enterprises.

Having someone use an app that is given away for free in and of itself does not, of course, create revenue. It's when the site that the app is an accessory to displays advertising that the owners make money. I wouldn't like having advertising appear on my app's support forum. From an etiquette standpoint, it's just not done.

There are even existing plug-ins that were part of the Cakewalk Inc. IP purchase that people like me would line up to pay for directly if we could. The LP Multi-Band compressor is one that comes to mind. So far it's not a priority.

Edited by Starship Krupa

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57 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

Since BandLab are not interested in monetizing the app itself, I doubt that they'd be much interested in monetizing the app's supporter forum.

BandLab already have platforms where users may publish their music for free and even sell it if they want to, without BandLab taking any cut. They seem pretty firm in not wishing to make any direct money from their DAW-related enterprises.

Having someone use an app that is given away for free in and of itself does not, of course, create revenue. It's when the site that the app is an accessory to displays advertising that the owners make money. I wouldn't like having advertising appear on my app's support forum. From an etiquette standpoint, it's just not done.

There are even existing plug-ins that were part of the Cakewalk Inc. IP purchase that people like me would line up to pay for directly if we could. The LP Multi-Band compressor is one that comes to mind. So far it's not a priority.

Dont be stuck in the 00's.

No one mentioned anything about monetizing stuff or ads being placed on an app. How do Whatsapp make money? Do you see any ads on whatsapp? 

See this is the problem - when you don't understand something you shouldn't speculate on it. 

FYI - The bandlab platform and the Cakewalk forum are two different brands. Another reason why Cakewalk need young blood on their Dev team. 

 

Edited by Will_Kaydo

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35 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said:

No one mentioned anything about monetizing stuff

Then what did you mean by

15 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

turn this into a mobile app and use it's revenue

?

Unless you have a non-standard definition of "monetize?" It literally means "earn revenue from."

35 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said:

How do Whatsapp make money?

 

35 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said:

when you don't understand something you shouldn't speculate on it. 

I so agree, especially in this case. So although I know how WhatsApp makes money, in the interest of showing how much you understand it, how do you think they/it make money? You said "by the usage of users using the app." Can you please describe the mechanism in more detail?

My own professional career in software did indeed end in the '00's, so I assume that for an app (by itself) to make money, it must be supported by sales of licenses, by advertising, or by donation. If it's not one of those then the app can be a loss-leader (like Cakewalk) or accessory to other services that the developer does make money from (like Messenger). As such, the app would be a cost center, not a revenue center.

So please either tell us which of those things would be present in your proposal or describe how else you suggest "the usage of users using the app" will translate into funds that can be used to "create new FX/instrument plugins for the DAW and more."

Edited by Starship Krupa

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5 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Can you please describe the mechanism in more detail

Nice Try. Unless you're a staff member - I don'tsee the point in me going that deep to reveal market strategies with you. 

 

5 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Then what did you mean 

Exactly how I've put it down. 

 

5 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

 

 

I know how WhatsApp makes money

Does not sound like it, cause you're asking the same question repeatedly over-and-over just differently. 

 

5 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

My own professional career in software did indeed end in the '00's, so I assume that for an app (by itself) to make money, it must be supported by sales of licenses, by advertising, or by donation. If it's not one of those then the app can be a loss-leader

Totally agree. You've been left behind much like a "loss-leader." 

 

5 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

So please either tell us which of those things would be present in your proposal or describe how else you suggest "the usage of users using the app" will translate into funds that can be used to "create new FX/instrument plugins for the DAW and more."

Like I said, I don't the point in discussingit detail if you're not a staff member. I think it's pretty clear enough in my previous replies. 

You don't have to fully understand the reasons, you just to agree or disagree without bringing negativity in to it. The virtual/digital world works differently today. 

5 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

As such, the app would be a cost center, not a revenue center.

This is where you are 100% wrong. HENCE -- the statement I made about bringing negativity in to this. 

FYI - just because something is "free" to the public, doesn't mean you can't make money from it. It's only free because there's no "service fee; registration fee; or subscription fee." 

FWIW: Do you really think Whatsapp or Messenger is free? Do you really think apps where you can upload your songs for free downloads and streaming are free? and that users and the devs can't or dont actually earn an income from it? Everything on a "Free app" cost you, the user, money to use it.

Do you think Google run on battery life alone? Do you really think they make money just from Ads? For every text you send, it cost you money/data to browse or upload or download a file (whether it's free open Wifi.) It costs someone a few bucks to provide "free wifi" at a coffee shop -- it's free to you, but someone paid for it and everytime you use it someone makes money from that.

"So Again, everytime you send a text/browse or download or upload a file, it cost you Money/Data and everytime you use that Data someone else gets richer."

So if you're onboard with this - Yay! If not, dont be selfish -- you're not the only one using this platform. This idea might benefit the next struggling musician/producer with such an app. Most importantly, It could help develop the brand further. 

I'm gonna leave it there. 

Edited by Will_Kaydo

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Have you looked at the Bandlab app? CbB allows songs to be exported to Bandlab, which in turn has tip-jars and media hosting, very much like Soundcloud.

This forum is also mobile compatible so it's not like phone posters miss out by not having a dedicated app. Yes, it's a little disconnected from the Bandlab social media thing, but it also serves a different purpose here, primarily peer-to-peer support, with the addition of things like the Coffee House, etc.

From everything I've understood since Meng came on board with Bandlab, the focus is really about providing a great DAW experience for free, with no catches.

Why is it free? Partly because Bandlab is well off enough to go "I love this thing, let us fund it" but also partly because it drives traffic to the social network where they DO take a revenue share. How many people outside of Singapore or product distributors had heard of Bandlab before the takeover? Not me, and I use a few of their other products they distribute too.

If the goal was to recoup the cost of purchasing the cost of IP and hiring devs to keep things going, the priority would have been to immediately monetize all of the add-on stuff (Dimension Pro, LP EQ, Adaptive Limiter, CA 2A, etc.) and not to mention merch as well - there's a good market for all of that. But they haven't, so that clearly isn't the short-term goal.

We can speculate all we like here, but ultimate the only people that really know the roadmap are Bandlab and the Bakers themselves. I know I'd certainly love to see some of the old plugins be released for sale again (coming from SONAR, I own a lot of them already and they're fantastic, and would definitely sell well) and I have a few ideas where this could all be exploited a lot better than it is right now, but it's really up to Meng at the end of the day.

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Why so angry? I thought we were all supposed to family here.

I suspected that you wouldn't actually explain it. Failing to be able to outline how revenue  will get from point A to point B is not a great way to attract buy-in.

I wonder, if it's such an innovative idea that you wish to keep the specifics to yourself, why post about it in public at all? Why not go directly to BandLab with it?

Anyway, I'll leave you and your idea to bask in the  outpouring of support.

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41 minutes ago, Lord Tim said:

Have you looked at the Bandlab app? CbB allows songs to be exported to Bandlab, which in turn has tip-jars and media hosting, very much like Soundcloud.

Lol. Like I said, they are two different platforms. The Bandlab Music App is for music creation and of course also for uploads. 

The Cakewalk app will be for everything related to the "Cakewalk forum" as it is now -- with just the exception of having it as a instant communication app in the palm of your hands. 

Instant communication and uploads (The same as instant messaging.) 

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3 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

Lol. Like I said, they are two different platforms. The Bandlab Music App is for music creation and of course also for uploads. 

The Cakewalk app will be for everything related to the "Cakewalk forum" as it is now -- with just the exception of having it as a instant communication app in the palm of your hands. 

Instant communication and uploads (The same as instant messaging.) 

So you want to add a chat function to the forum and turn it into an app?  This forum is mobile friendly and could easily be a PWA if anyone wanted to spend the time and resources to do so, and then deal with getting it into stores, etc. and for what? You'd basically be getting exactly the same experience (minus chat) as a native web page. If you're talking about embedding music, this forum already auto converts links from YouTube, Soundcloud, etc. to players, and even has native embedding for Bandlab built in, with a dedicated button on the reply box toolbar.

How does that help your other point of monetizing things? If you're not adding advertising to things, how do you offset the extra bandwidth charges by giving everyone an additional messaging app and music hosting service, in what is pretty much a peer-to-peer support forum?

Sorry, long reply coming. :) 

I'm all for thinking outside the box. I've been doing music professionally for over 30 years, both on the artist side signed to labels, and as a label manager. I've been through all of the various permeations of what it's like to work in this industry, from "I made a record, I sold that record, I made some money" to "my music is now a jingle I give away for free to advertise my T-shirts."  We now handle our own PR and do PR for other artists as well. The first thing we say is that you need to adapt or die, and don't be scared to try something a little nutty to get attention. But with that being said....

Reinventing the wheel benefits nobody. As an artist or label, why would I create a file sharing service when there's Soundcloud/Bandcamp/YT Music, etc. etc. that already has a built-in userbase to exploit? Why would I start a social network when there's Facebook, Twitter, etc. out there to share my PR to a much larger userbase? If the core style of my band is, say, gothic rock, just thinking you're hip and adding sub drops and loops into it won't automatically get you the under 26 demographic. There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with introducing elements into what you do to expand your style, and possibly pick up a few fans along the way, but people can smell desperation, and when a brand is changing specifically to go after a new demographic. It takes time to reorient yourself when you do that and you risk losing your core user/fanbase in the meantime. And if it's just a blatant grab to get cred from a new crowd, it's selling yourself out anyway.

Relating that to this forum app idea, why would Bandlab make ANOTHER file hosting platform for a free product in their portfolio to compete against their existing social network that they're drawing an income from? Why would Bandlab want to make an app to replicate the functionality of an existing forum that's already working well for its intended purpose, that you need to upkeep on mobile apps for the sole purpose of adding in a chat client? And as a user, why would I even want to use something other than the plethora of existing messaging apps out there that already have a substantial userbase? I'm no fan of Facebook, but I'm on there because a great number of people I know are on there too and it's a good way to stay in touch. Kill that aspect and I don't need another chat app - you'd hop over to Whatsapp or iMessage or Hangouts or whatever.

Not trying to rain on your parade or be overly negative or combative (don't take my tone as anything aggressive or angry here, it's not :)) but I genuinely can't see any benefit for Bandlab to do this. It's all the right tools for the job, They already have a file hosting social network with chat that's free for us to use where both parties can make money from it, they don't need to turn a support forum into the same thing.

On the other hand, should there be better integration between the two platforms? Now THAT I can get behind. Having the SONGS subforum somehow linked in with the Bandlab social network (and being your choice if you share with their platform or from Soundcloud, etc.) would be killer. But I know that the signal to noise ratio would deteriorate really quickly if the main forums here turned into some kind of social thing. There's a wealth of info being shared in these forums, and people/devs making CbB better all the time, and that's really down to how focussed everything is, which is the primary purpose of what these forums are, as opposed to the primary focus of the Bandlab social network.

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8 hours ago, Lord Tim said:

why would I even want to use something other than the plethora of existing messaging apps

Sorry to raid on your parade: You're not the only one using Cakewalk or this forum. You will always have the option to stick to doing business from your house phone. 

I bet you the new generation will have a field day with this. Being able to Video or Voice call or instant messaging from within your DAW's mobile app would be a PLUS and those that will download the app. No other DAW has a platform like. 

But now of course, why would you find this interesting when you're stuck to old habbits. I think I see a resemblance here some where. 

I'm gonna leave you to it. Feel free to write another short novel as a reply.  

Edited by Will_Kaydo

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49 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said:

Being able to Video or Voice call or instant messaging from within your DAW's mobile app would be a PLUS

Due to my being so out of touch with what Kids These Days want, it's never occurred to me to wish for these things in association with a software support forum.

I had no idea that my considering having iMessage, SMS, Telegram, Messenger, and Google Hangouts all on my phone and tablet to be sufficient for my messaging needs was such backward thinking. Heck, now it seems that if I'm not going to adopt every messaging platform that comes along I may as well go back to tin cans and string or smoke signals!

Thanks for keeping this old fogey up to date.

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1 hour ago, Starship Krupa said:

Thanks for keeping this old fogey up to date.

Lol. It helps to stay up to date of how the business are changing commercial wise. Plus, being involve with the youth and their way of handling the business today, helps a lot with my company. It's been said a million times over-and-over -- your biggest major genre today is HipHop and EDM and if you want to compete in the industry, that is where you need to invest your knowledge in. Digital Marketing, Sales, Revenue, Promotion Campaigns, Merchandise and P.R is all digital today. 

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4 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

Sorry to raid on your parade: You're not the only one using Cakewalk or this forum. You will always have the option to stick to doing business from your house phone. 

I bet you the new generation will have a field day with this. Being able to Video or Voice call or instant messaging from within your DAW's mobile app would be a PLUS and those that will download the app. No other DAW has a platform like. 

But now of course, why would you find this interesting when you're stuck to old habbits. I think I see a resemblance here some where. 

I'm gonna leave you to it. Feel free to write another short novel as a reply.  

I'll keep this one short then, since you didn't actually come up with anything to counter what I said other than snark.

1. If your idea is so good, then someone should go out and do it and clean up at the bank. Never forget you're someone.

2. You might get more people on board if you had more constructive replies, rather than insults.

Good luck, yeah? Let me know when your app is out.

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