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  1. The lack of third party libraries is irrelevant to the people to whom HALion (or Falcon) is attractive, because those people want it for sound design and for actual sampling (not simply playing back sample libraries). For those things, it tis far ahead of Kontakt and practically on par with UVI Falcon. It's a Mega Synth and Sampler. That's the point of it. Libraries are icing on the cake, to those people. They will happily run those through Kontakt Player. People who need third party libraries need to go with Kontakt. HALion is more attractive to Sound Designers for its deep feature set in that area, than it tis to composers - who generally just want the best sample libraries the market has to offer. Those are going to be on Kontakt. They will be on Kontakt for the foreseeable future. HALion could cost $99.99 with a $9.99 upgrade off Cubase Pro, and this would not changed - at least not fast enough for it to matter to you. While it may seem "expensive" to you, HALion can replace A+ Analog, Wave Table, and Granular Synths that - together - mount up to 2-3x its cost combined. That's where the value is. There are some great orchestral Libraries for HALion, but if you can't afford it you aren't going to be able to afford something like Iconica Suite. They should play in Sonic SE, anyways /shrugs ----- I've had nothing but good experience with Steinberg support. Prompt, quick, and they always followed through to resolution. Hell, they even refunded a dongled purchase to me because of an issue I was having with my audio interface. Without question. PreSonus support is renown for being terrible. I am not sure how you arrived at that conclusion, but experiences do vary! My response times from their support is in the realm of 3 days or so, and it's always a PITA to get to the answers they send with how the system is set up - sometimes you have to log in to view it, sometimes it bugs out and it doesn't show up, etc. I haven't quite figured that out, yet. ----- I agree that MySteinberg needs a revamp. I think the site is generally fine, but managing activations is really outdated and needs to be redone - particularly for soft-elicensers. But I doubt Steinberg sees PreSonus' web site as a reason to be alarmed, Lol... ----- Groove Agent has a similar layout to Impact XT in Studio One, and multiple other similar instruments (i.e. Drum Rack in Ableton, Kong in Reason, etc.). Not sure how that is unintuitive. Battery's layout is generally the outtlier, viewed hollistically. In any case, it's a pretty good plug-in 😛 And cheaper than HALion, so less cause for pricing complaints, I guess...
  2. 1. No precedeent for this. Like stated, other DAW developers do not give upgrade rights to their full sampler/sound design applications from the DAW, and they ship a playback instrument with them. 2. You mean PresenceXT, an instrument that is locked to Studio One and has no value once you decide you don't want to use it. All of your sample libraries and presets locked to it - completely lacking in portability. Yes, the editor will be cheap, for that reason. PresenceXT Editor isn't really HALion 6 or Falcon 2 level product, anyway. It deserves to be cheap. It's a cheap product. It's basically Structure 2 with scripting. 3. Common Sense according to whom? The people developing or selling the product, or the people who want it at a discount? 😉 Steinberg's primary market segment is Digital Audio Workstations. I think you assume they are competing primarily with NI when that really isn't the case. HALion exists to round out their ecosystem, not bury the competition. The brunt of Cubase's user base are people who will skip it and go straight to Komplete and Kontakt Libraries even when there are deals on HALion. HALion's pricing is not the problem. It's priced very competitively. Developer support is, and that developer support has nothing to do with the pricing. Other Samplers have the same problems. 4. Additionally: "Upgrade cost" is covered by the 2-4 30-50% off deals they run yearly. 5. Can't miss something that doesn't exist 😉 I don't see why they should include a paid version with Cubase Pro. HALion is comparable to Falcon 2, and basically does the job of 60% of Native Instruments Komplete in one application/plugin. NI doesn't give you Kontakt 6 with their $1,000 S88 Keyboard, so I don't see why Steinberg should give you HALion Sonic 3 or 6 with their $550 DAW. They bundle enough sound content. TThere are already DAWs on the market that give you far less, yet cost more. Why complain about this in a thread about a 30% upgrade eon the product, anyways. It's like $219 tax-free at Best Service during this promotion, FFS. That is not "too expensive" for this product.
  3. Those people probably made out a better, since they get to spend that money on better plug-ins and virtual instruments. Half of the Cakewalk stuff was super old and not updated in like a decade. There wasn't really that much value in a lot of that. Whether they see the light of day is only relevant if they are either throwon into the package as freebies or sold for ridiculously low prices. Otherwise, there are better plug-ins to be had on the market; and many SONAR users used those plug-ins. SONAR license holders who paid for a decade or more deserved to have the DAW developed as aggressively back then as it is now, and it honestly wasn't. BandLab has done what most companies that purchase a product and make it a freebie don't... They've actually made it a better, more attractive product. Imagine if Cakewalk was purchased by MAGIX or Corel?
  4. Wanted to quote this snippet, but forgot. Exactly my point. HALion's relative popularity is hindered by the fact that almost no third parties are supporting it. UVI is a lot more active in creating their own [pretty good] sample libraries and synths for Falcon, but UVI is a Sample Library and Synthesizer company. Steinberg's focus isn't solely in that area. The effort that UVI puts into their Sample Libraries and Synths goes largely into Steinberg's DAWs, and vice versa. This is why many people are told to get UVI Falcon 2 over HALion when they are torn between the two. HALion has a better Factory Library, but it really is no competition once you look at the libraries these companies have available for sale beyond that. UVI definitely wins. I prefer the HALion software, but the library ecosystem does leave one wanting (mostly for sampled instruments - I think they're both pretty good and almost evenly matched for Synthesis...).
  5. Best Service is for the win. $169 Tax-Free crossgrades during the Holiday Season! I pretty much only buy software from there now, when possible. The prices are almost always lower than MSRP, and no Taxes. Many have moved to using another DAW as their primary but stick around for the Community, and because they use Cakewalk as a backup. It's also the place to be to keep track of developments surrounding the DAW. The devs aren't really that active on Social Media, FWIS. It's kind of hard to come back to SONAR/Cakewalk from another DAW if you've left and actually learned how to use it. A lot of Quality of Life has to be sacrificed in that case. You know the saying... People never know what they're missing until they experience it. That grabs a lot of people when they use competing products. Those people most solid in sticking to it tend to be those that never left, or those that got another DAW, but never really committed to it - because learning a new DAW [naturally] tanks your productivity for a time (and I doubt those are "still buying other DAWs"). Typically, web forums bias to a product's most reliable user base. The more fickle users typically aren't very active on them.
  6. Not quite. It's just that most people who think so aren't really going to bother to both: Continue to use it, and Come here to say so. They will use something else and never say anything. Most people who ditch/switch DAWs do not advertise it, or why. This is what makes it so hard to develop in a direction for user retention. Most feedback come from the reliable users, not those that are more fickle. Developing for a shrinking base of committed users doesn't grow a problem. This is the issue SONAR ran into. If you looked beyond these walls, you'd see that I am not alone. How can SONAR's notation editor, as an editing tool, be the best you've ever used when it can't display the MIDI properly, meaning it also cannot edit the MIDI properly? Can you create a grace note in the Sonar Staff View/Editor? I can in Samplitude, and I'm pretty sure the code in their Score Editor is about as old as SONAR's - and even if it isn't, it probably hasn't been touched since it was put in there, cause "MAGIX." Have you even touched Studio One 5's new Score Editor? The score editor needs tons of improvements in this product. The articulation maps are great. Probably the closest any product has gotten to Cubase Expression Maps, thus far (Studio One's implementation is anemic), but the score editor is really bottom-barrel.
  7. Didn't miss the point. They already bundle a cut down version with Cubase (with some Half-Decent Sounds). This is what HALion Sonic SE is? Full version upgrade path is not needed. Almost no one in the industry does this, so I am not sure why this is at issue. There was not an upgrade path off of Structure Free to Structure in Pro Tools. There is no upgrade path off of UVI Workstation to Falcon 2 or MOTO MachFive. There is no upgrade path off of Kontakt Player to full Kontakt (only a few ways to exploit free Kontakt Player Licensed 3rd party instruments for an upgrade - like Embertone Arcane). I clearly indicated that this was the case. It's there so that you can play HALion Libraries in Cubase or any 3rd party DAW. It runs Standalone and in any other DAW. The installer you get for HALion Sonic SE in Cubase 11 is literalyl no different that the one you'd use if you were using Pro Tools, Cakewalk, Studio One, or Ableton Live. It's it's own product, it's just bundled for convenience. Installing Cubase 11 does not install HALion Sonic SE. It has its own installer. HALion's popularity, like Falcon and MachFive is hindered not by Steinberg's (or UVI's) "Marketing Strategy" but rather the domination of alternative solutions like Kontakt, Omniscphere, and Serum. Even if they gave $100 Off of HALion Sonic/$50 off HALion 6 for buying Cubase, most people would still get the freebie and run to a Kontakt 6 Upgrade for $249 with the upgrade option to Komplete 13, or buy something like Serum, Pigments 2 (often on sale for 50% off), Zebra or Omnisphere for Synthesis instead; because they're buying the workstation platform based not on what it can do - but what ecosystem it has backing it. HALion doesn't have enough third-party support to increase its attractiveness, despite being a better Sampling and Synthesis platform than Kontakt (IMHO). Correct. A lot of the stock HALion Sonic SE patches in Cubase are the General MIDI stuff. Basically, the equivalent of what you get out of TTS-1 in Cakewalk, though it sounds better (because they seem to come from one of the better Yamaha machines), they are still not as good as a decent Sample Library and were not designed to be that good. They're usually notated with a [GM ###] marker, BTW. HALion Sonic 3 adds the better libraries namely: Studio Strings, Hot Brass, The Eagle/The Raven Pianos, World Instruments, and World Percusion. Basically, the rough equivalent of the Kontakt Factory Library plus some decent Synths and stuff. HALion 6 is for when you want to do Surround, need massive patches in one Instance of the Sampler (far more channel output), need/want the Wave Table Editor, or need/want the capability for creating your own Sample Libraries (which can be used in Sonic and Sonic SE). I also think Multi-Monitor Support is limited to HALion 6, and the UI is more flexible (the players I think have a locked UI layout - but they also have far less panels and UI areas). HALion has a pretty high learning curve through, since most people are only used to using something like Kontakt Player (or Kontakt as a player). Sonic and Sonic SE are pretty self-explanatory, but HALion 6 is likely to throw many users into a state of Shock and Awe the second they open the application/plugin. Personally Opinion: Absolute is a better deal than buying HALion 6, except during sales like this (the 30% off price is very attractive, IMO), and I'm not sure I'd ever buy HALion Sonic 3 considering HALion 6 includes Sonic 3 the price difference is not high enough considering the lack of editing capabilities in Sonic 3. If they have a 50% off sale for HALion, chances are the same sale is also running on Absolute 4, so it makes less sense to go just for HALion in that case. Picking up Groove Agent 5, Retrologue 2, Padshop 2, The Grand 3, HSO, OCM, and a few additional good synths plus some of their better libraries (Granular Guitars, Prime Cuts, etc.) for the price difference is high value. So, waiting is likely to throw many users into the same conundrum as now. "Should I settle for HALion 6 or pay the difference for Absolute."
  8. Tried ordering but cannot set Country to USA. Bank will just lock my card if I try to submit this order, especially to a foreign merchant. EDIT: Purchased at Producer Spot. Waves plugins are locked to one machine unless you keep a subscription, so I've already uninstalled the CODEX/Waves stuff as I don't want to lock myself into that. The Tracktion synth is okay, though.
  9. I think there is one or two 😉 Not sure how any computer literate person can find Samplitude's Score Editor "Mystifying." It's actually not that jam packed. It just has a much better engine for interpreting and displaying the MIDI than Cakewalk does. It's pretty easy to use. Cubase's Score Editor is far more mystifying than Samplitude's, and a lot of that has to do with how much more functionality Steinberg has packed into that editor. Feature Richness has a tendency to do that. Cakewalk's Score Editor is not unintuitiive or hard to use. It's just bad.
  10. Depends on what they add in 11.5. Otherwise, you can lose considerably more money to willfully sacrificed productivity gains "shelving" useful new features ... waiting to save a pretty low amount of cash in the long term.
  11. Lol. Lots of people made that mistake. The worst thing is how much MAGIX charges for those upgrades, which add very little - and much of the functionality, plug-ins, etc. in Samplitude are basically legacy software. They NEVER touch them, improve them, fix bugs, etc. It's decent for audio editing and mastering. Can be a budget WaveLab Pro stand-in (in its Suite SKU) when you can catch a super deal. However, the GUI slowdowns I encountered with X4 make it completely unusable for me for production. The performance was just too bad, and it even affects audio playback. Also, they have sketchy VST3 support. Every version of their products come with an "All-New VST3 Engine" because it's always terrible.
  12. HALion Sonic SE is the Steinberg equivalent of UVI Workstation. No, they aren't going to give upgrades off of a free product that anyone can get from the Steinberg website. Yes, it's literally the same product. It's bundled with Cubase because it's their product, and their sample/synth playback engine, for the content that comes with Cubase (and Dorico) and from Steinberg (and partners that create for that platform). There is no logical reason why they would give upgrade discounts to that, the same way no one expects UVI to give upgrade discounts off of UVI Workstation, for the same reason. Should they also give upgrades from Cubase to Dorico because Cubase has a score editor? Absolutely nothing stupid about it. No one is paying for HSSE3 to be bundled in Cubase. That's why it's in literally every SKU of Cubase, down to AI and LE. What people pay a little extra for are the sound libraries that Cubase bundles, and those are played back through instruments like HSSE3. You paid nothing for HSSE3, so why should they basically give you money for having it?
  13. Maestro

    Best Deal Cubase 11?

    No. Lol. What? 11 Pro is a $100 upgrade off 10.5 11.5 will be a $60 update off of 11. 10-11 is about more than $100, because you're coming from 2 releases back. Cubase Pro .0 to .0 upgrades are comparable in price to DAWs like Studio One (which is $150 for a full version upgrade i.e. 4 to 5). The difference is that the cost is split between the 0.5 update and 1.0 upgrade (Studio One doesn't have yearly releases, Cubase does... so the overall maintenance costs are quite comparable). What you're being charged is accurate. That's the cost of not staying up to date. People who stay up to date save money in the long run. The others are going to have to make up the difference by exploiting discount promotions (which everyone can do - by buying extra upgrades and simply saving them until the next version releases, and upgrading at a discount). Steinberg has had the same policy regarding activations giving the current release at time of activation for a decade or more.
  14. T-RackS 5 MAX installs like 7 plug-ins that aren't included in the MAX package (Leslie, Sunset Reverb, Space Delay, Tape Machine x 4). Those are trivial to Hide or Disable in your DAWs or NLEs. You can set AmpliTube to show only the stuff you own. Those are really nitpicky "issues." Multiple vendors do this. The Harrison Consoles Ava installer does this, as do plug-in installers from MAGIX and scores of other developers. If you buy 370GB worth of aAplications and Sample Libraries from a company (like I have) and don't immediately back these up to a HDD, then I don't think you can really complain about having to pay to redownload them after 6 months. Again, IK Multimedia is not alone in doing this. Many companies do, because not every company is super huge and can afford to hemorrhage money away in the form of server bandwidth costs. That's kind of the point, given that's the core of their business. They survive because the exaggerations of a few forum posters actually do not dictate the experience of the other millions of their users. And why are people abusing the DEALS forums with threads that have nothing to do with Deals? There is another forum area for this minutiae. Don't post here just to farm views and replies.
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