Microtone

[kyrillos]

Good day everybody
I am trying to play a song that has only (MI) or (E) between natural and  E♭ 
how is it possible to do it. i was trying to understand but i really need someone to explain from scratch.
thank you so much

[kyrillos]

yes the remain the same only one note to be transposed 

[kyrillos]

6 minutes ago, Nigel Mackay said:

Only the Es? A, B, C, D, etc must still play the original A, B, C?

yes they remain the same only E should be transposed 

Edited August 5, 2020 by kyrillos

[User 905133]

I thought of something (a work-around) that MIGHT work, but it is complicated--not something I would do as a first choice option.

Assuming you are composing the music and using staff notation, MAYBE you could put the E on its own midi channel and put a pitch bend just on that channel so it wouldn't affect other notes.

Are you composing the music using the staff notation view?

Edited August 5, 2020 by User 905133

[kyrillos]

4 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

I thought of something (a work-around) that MIGHT work, but it is complicated--not something I would do as a first choice option.

Assuming you are composing the music and using staff notation, MAYBE you could put the E on its own midi channel and put a pitch bend just on that channel so it wouldn't affect other notes.

Are you composing the music using the staff notation view?

i write it in musescore because its easier in writing notes.
its been like 9 hours trying to understand the pitch bend and how to do it. any tutorial something simple to read and understand it 

[Nigel Mackay]

You might have to ask for help with some of the steps, but let's just get the idea going first.

One way would be to have 1 MIDI track with all notes except E, 1 MIDI track with only Es

1) Import your MIDI file
2) Make a  copy of it
3) Track 1, delete all the Es, using PRV is the a quick and dirty method.
4) Track 2, delete everything except Es.
5) Insert 2 copies of Kontakt.
6) Choose your instrument and add to 1st Kontakt. Route the MIDI with other notes to it.
7) Add the instrument to 2nd Kontakt, use the fine tuning of Kontakt to adjust to correct 1/4 interval.
😎 Route the Es MIDI to it.

Repeat if multiple instruments. Only need 2 copies of Kontakt.

This means that all notes except E go to an instrument that is tuned normally. All the Es go to an instrument that is tuned down to where you want it.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Nigel Mackay
Clarification

[scook]

As noted above it is up to the synth not the DAW.

Here is a pretty good list of plug-ins with that support microtonal tuning

https://en.xen.wiki/w/List_of_Microtonal_Software_Plugins

 

 

[kyrillos]

10 minutes ago, Nigel Mackay said:

Insert 2 copies of Kontakt.

is it Kontakt of native instrument? like kontakt 6 now?

because i dont have it shall i download it or buy or what is the idea?

[kyrillos]

10 minutes ago, scook said:

As noted above it is up to the synth not the DAW.

Here is a pretty good list of plug-ins with that support microtonal tuning

https://en.xen.wiki/w/List_of_Microtonal_Software_Plugins

the plugins listed are not orchestral instruments

[scook]

There are several of sample-based synths in the list.

 

 

[Nigel Mackay]

17 minutes ago, kyrillos said:

is it Kontakt of native instrument? like kontakt 6 now?

because i dont have it shall i download it or buy or what is the idea?

Yes. But we are talking expensive.

On the other hand Sforzando (in the list supplied by scook) is free. Quite a good set of free soundfonts. You can get other soundfonts/samples. It handles Scala. (With the disadvantage of having to learn it 😟), but is also tunable, so you could use it in place of Kontakt in the above plan.

A free starting point.

 

[User 905133]

1 hour ago, kyrillos said:

1 hour ago, scook said:

As noted above it is up to the synth not the DAW.

Here is a pretty good list of plug-ins with that support microtonal tuning

https://en.xen.wiki/w/List_of_Microtonal_Software_Plugins

the plugins listed are not orchestral instruments

I didn't look at all of the software synthesizers on the list, but I would be surprised if there isn't at least one that can function as a sampler or a ROMpler.  By the way, those are other options--hardware gear (samplers/ROMPlers).  You wouldn't even need Scala!!! Many of theme have tuning tables which can be tweaked from the front panel. For example, my Proteus 2500 has 12 User Key Tuning Tables where I can fine tune each of MIDI's 127 notes.  Not recommending this one for you; just saying that if you had/found hardware that had the samples/instruments you needed, old-fashioned tuning tables should meet your needs.

As mentioned above,  re-tuning notes is generally a function of the synth engine (software or hardware).  If you want to use software samplers/ramplers, you might not even need the ability to use *.scl files. I haven't looked, but I'd think that any software instrument that implements basic tuning tables where you can adjust the fine tuning on a note-by-note basis would meet your needs.

 

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by User 905133
to add a missing word ("need"); typo fic ("meet" not "beet")

[Kurre]

5 hours ago, kyrillos said:

i apologize for my ignorance i dont understand what op is and google just shows a none sense result!
i am trying to understand the links u sent me but its like a great ocean i dont know where to start just a simple explain is appriciated

Don't feel bad. It is a stupid acronym that somehow have been standard, probably by years of group pressure from idiots.

It should be TS - Thread/topic Starter - which is the logical conclusion when you're in a forum with threads and topics.

Forgive me, i simply had to get that out of my system. 🙏

Carry on ...

[kyrillos]

Thanks Everybody for trying to help. i tried every tips u guys give even with sforzando i tried over and over the system crashes with out and error code.
i saw many tutorials in other daws where they just bent one note and it seems like i cant to it here i am kind of giving up

[kyrillos]

is there something like that in cakewalk guys?
 

 

[Canopus]

31 minutes ago, kyrillos said:

is there something like that in cakewalk guys?

Nope. However, maybe you could use the Melodyne Demo version that comes with CbB and modify the E’s by ear? Make sure all the E's are in one separate MIDI clip like Nigel proposed above and record your MIDI into audio using your orchestral VSTi. Then select the audio clip for this separate track and apply Region FX > Melodyne. In Melodyne, make sure Options > Pitch Grid is set to No Snap so that the notes won’t stick to the twelve tone scale. It should then be possible to tune your E’s into whatever. It’s very clumsy of course, but might be a possible work-around if this is a one-time occurrence.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Canopus
Spelling.

[kyrillos]

and in this video the DAW does the scales not the plugin

 

[Nigel Mackay]

Cakewalk can't.

[Promidi]

It still sounds like pitch bend might be the answer.

For example, If you wish to play an note that is slightly lower in pitch than a E note (but not quite an Eb), you can put a pitch bend event before the note.

This would be done in the Piano Roll View and ,with the smart tool selected, simply hold down ALT and click in the pitch bend controller lane. 

So if you want to produce a note that is half way between an E and and Eb, (Which numerically is 50 cents), you would put a pitch bend 1 quarter of the minimum value before the note.  If you look in the Event List, the pitch bend event will have a value of -8192 divided by 4, which is 2048). This is assuming your pitch bend range is set to two semitones - which most synths are by default.

Remember, the pitch bend controller lane centres at zero - or no pitch shift.  You might need to remember to place a pitch bend =  0 command after the note.

Also, you might need to use multiple instances of what ever synth plugin you're using (In your case BBC orchestra plugin). This is because there might be an occasion when you are playing a chord, but you only want one note to shift but leave the others unshifted.

The great thing about using pitch bends is that it really would not matter what synth you are using - as long as it responds to pitch bend.  Pitch bend has been part of the MIDI specification since its inception in the mid '80s.

Sounds convoluted , nut once you've done this a few times , it gets easier.

[kyrillos]

@Promidi

Thanks for your reply. is there any toturial you recommend i could view and follow because i followed the steps but still i cant video makes it easier

[Nigel Mackay]

There is no tutorial to cover what you want to do. There are 10 tutorials that show various parts of what needs to be done.

Which method are you trying?

Give us screen shots of your MIDI tracks, instrument tracks, synth rack. We need to see what you have and haven't done.