JnTuneTech

@Byron Dickens - Of course, but please, let's not try and scare people to death before they get comfortable using Cakewalk! 😶 -For this forum here , especially when Cakewalk went to a free licensing model, I have assumed we need to allow for general public access, including new users & casual creators, so maybe let's offer some basic help first? -But yes, links to the hardware manuals would be on the top of the compatibility listings sections - I would think.

Thanks for the info on what you are working with, -very helpful! -So, I am stuck on one of the terms you keep using - wet/dry level. In a typical audio mixing scenario, wet/dry usually refers to having an effect process that in itself routes both the dry audio feed it is being sent, and the amount of effect added to that, -used either in the primary signal path, such as an inline fx bin routing, or in a separate audio process fed by a send, such as a bus, for instance, that then is usually mixed back in with the main mix, and so by nature creates an element of parallel processing of any "dry" signal in most cases. -In your case, what do you mean - does the internal game audio engine have a separate reverb fx unit you need to control & mix back with the original audio? As a note - in GM MIDI - CC91 is only "commonly" referred to as Reverb Send - it actually can be almost anything at all, and it really has no literal connection to being a send or just plain level, so don't let the general terms confuse you. In your case it looks like CC91 refers to a certain level of what you say results in reverb, and it is assigned per channel individually. Otherwise, there are many ways to use a separate reverb fx that offers wet/dry mixing in Cakewalk if you think you need that. It might be difficult to do however from a multi-timbral synth, you may want to use separate synths for each MIDI instrument in that case. -How many individual instruments are defined in the MIDI you are using?

So many posts here seem to be primarily involving non-Cakewalk native issues, that it seems like there would be a good use for more specific sub-sections in these forums. The existing subsections are fairly robust, but I would like to see a more specific sub-section for the information & troubleshooting using Cakewalk with audio interfaces specifically, since as it stands right now that category is lumped under "Gear", along with things like headphones, etc. Much of that probably should remain as is, but there is so much happening each day with posts relating to specific audio interface problems & Cakewalk specific setup issues, that it might be best to have a full Audio Interface sub-section, and perhaps even major manufacturer categories in that. I would also recommend, once Cakewalk again becomes a paid-for product, that there be some curation of the audio interface section(s) of the forum, to include organized hardware compatibility lists - testing notes, and hopefully basic Cakewalk-specific setup guides where possible, with appropriate caveats & links to the manufacturer's direct information and support. -Without trying to give preference to any particular manufacturer, there still should be some easy groupings, or at least tags, to easily reference the most common interfaces, and a place for various lesser-known interfaces and legacy hardware notes, most of which can be user-provided.

Indeed. I have used a UFX (1) for about 10 years now, mostly with Cakewalk software. It has gone onstage, indoors, outdoors, and still works flawlessly back in the office setup. The driver options & stability are, from what I have been reading in these forums, very robust, and of course TotalMix, -once you get a handle on it anyway, is very much a part of the pro options that can be implemented on a computer audio interface being used to the fullest. -Almost every one of my mixes in Cakewalk includes a track to set the desired TotalMix options & change direct monitoring dynamically during playback. -And, I even get a fair amount of use out of the Durec - direct to USB recording that the UFX series has - really can come in handy for live recordings, troubleshooting & alternate DAW output mixing. Great stuff!

Yes - and it almost always is master-controlled by the mixer/driver interface of the sound device you are using. I was going to say that this is getting off the topic of the OP, but really it is still relevant, because unless you understand & have full control over how your DAW sounds are routed through your interface, getting live input monitoring to work the way you want can be difficult. -Generally speaking, the more i/o options your interface can provide, the more you need to discover how it works and how to route the options. -If you only have a 2-channel interface, it can be simple, but add separate headphone and/or line outs, etc., and your routing paths can get hard to understand, unless you spend some time learning your specific interface mixing options. @JohnnyV -On my particular current interface, for instance, I chose to route the WASAPI feed from Windows outputs to a mix that always appears in my headphones, via a driver setting and an interface mixer routing. And for me, it causes no obvious problems with Cakewalk so far as I can tell, to run both driver paths simultaneously, but that varies from interface to interface, so it is not a general answer for everyone. The same goes for how I route my interface options when using live input monitoring, versus the interface direct monitoring, for instance. As I always seem to say - it's all about the routing, - understanding, often testing that, is key for many things beyond simple recording & playback.

You know, with a multi-out interface like the 18i8, you can actually get quite creative with your monitoring options. Of course, it may require a lot of adapter cabling, and experience with your various devices, but options abound, since Cakewalk can use any or all of the available outputs on an I/O device like that. The key is in the routing, and your use of it. -But unless you have a real need for it - I still recommend simplest as the best. So - for instance: I currently use my 2ond headphone output as a feed for audio to an AV mixer for streaming or recording from my audio interface while using Cakewalk. That could just as well be routed to a boom box, or any other device with line input, with a bit of experimenting, and again cabling. Or, the line outputs on the 18i8 could be used that way just as well, and though I can't recommend it, even plugged back into the laptop (if it has an audio i/o jack and you get the impedances to match, etc.) audio for that lo-fi comparison (probably very lo-fi in that case!). -All of that is only experimental though - (like for when you are really bored 🤓 ), and watch out for mutli-out latency issues, of course, so again, simplest is usually best. -But sometimes it's worth the adventure! Use those multi-outs! And @charles kasler - it's great to have people that follow up on their posts! Great to learn from all these good suggestions & info here.

As has been said before... "Humor - It is a difficult concept." -Goes well with music though, for me anyway. 🙈 😎

Also, if you use the default multi-timbral synth in Cakewalk, TTS-1, note that the defaults loaded for all tracks have reverb level set at 40. -So, unless you have a different stated MIDI command at the start of playback, reverb on any default instrument will start at that level. -It used to really throw me off! My solution when loading a MIDI track, or assigning a new one, to a TTS-1 instrument, is to toggle the reverb setting (in the inspector for instance) to zero - or whatever you really want to start with, before continuing to play and program. -Of course, any later MIDI changes will override that, but starting out it may not be obvious. For some reason, I usually have to do that with chorus as well, but the TTS-1 GUI says the default there is zero - maybe it was just me! - FYI.

Can't tell from your initial description, but perhaps input echo on a MIDI track might do that. -If those are MIDI tracks - Check and make sure you have only the MIDI routings you want selected in the tracks, as they change when you move the project to a new system most of the time. Also, maybe the input echo follows track selection preference was off on the old system?

Simplest option (IMHO) - occasionally export your current mix to a stereo file, play it on the laptop media player, or VLC, etc.

From your 1st post, it sounds like you are dealing with some possible custom MIDI implementation, and I think tools in Cakewalk could certainly help work with that. It also sounds like it may take somewhat of a learning curve, it's good you have been checking out tutorials! MIDI can be confusing at 1st. Can we get more information on your situation? What type of MIDI file are you using to bring the material into Cakewalk? Does the game engine use any kind of MIDI standards for the rest of the controls, such as instrument/patch selection, even perhaps any system exclusive or other of the in depth stuff? You mentioned CC 91 as being used for a reverb level, which is an optional command within the GM standards, are the volume levels for the mix also using standard CCs?

{The Cakewalk forum admin gets an urgent alert from one of the ad bots. Immediately afterwards, they chat with the upper-level data silo AI: "Hey, we have a possible opportunity here, you'd better spin up the legacy Noel simulation, and get it ready again - we may have someone wanting to actually use the old school, pre-AI approach to Cakewalk products! -Oh, and also rack up that Anderton module, just in case they go the um, what did it used to be called... Do It Yourself sort of way of thinking. I'm sure we can handle that, we have the digitally signed EULA from when they first used the free version at some music & computer club memorabilia show..."] ***Complete FICTION!*** - (We hope!) 😅 🙈🙉🙊 🤓

(NotBot) - Hey, are you going to help me with my problem, or not? -Read the room here! I think that AI plugin you have in Cakewalk doesn't like my song, you need to fix that! (Hapy2Help) - Well, not to be rude, but did you thoroughly read through the AI plugin documentation? I believe there are very specific pre-requisites and procedures when using the sexy time mode. It's not just automatic you know! Certain things also have to go in the proper order, and as I mentioned earlier, in the right place. Do you have the proper interface to be sure everything connects right? Did you get that pitch corrected as @craigb also suggested? [no immediate response, or perhaps a network error gap ensues...] .................... (Hapy2Help) - Hello - did you get our recent posts - is everything OK? -By the way, I should ask, what is the title of the project - song that you are experiencing the AI engine failure with? (NotBot) - Well, I named it after one of the really old titles in my grandad's pre-AI banned audio collection... I think it was something called an album, and I liked the name. -"Machine Head". The picture with it even looked like some kind of liquid metal stuff - would that be offensive to the AI plugin? (Hapy2Help) - Well. "Machine Head" - you say? That might be rudely interpreted - I would suggest turning off the AI plugin for that track, just to be safe. -In fact, all the AI tools. (NotBot) - You've got to be kidding? -How do you make a song without AI?? That's like singing without auto tune. -No way. 😅 🙉 🥵

Yes, -I can even envision the emoji track forum complaints now... (NotBot) - Hey, the second verse in my project is supposed to be the hot & sexy movement, but the emoji AI keeps messing up the eggplant emoji I inserted. (Hapy2Help) - Maybe you didn't insert it in the right place? (NotBot) - That's not it. You don't understand. That's the hot part of the song, but the AI put my emoji in laying down, and I can't get it up. How do I fix that? (Hapy2Help) - Um, -It did what? -Are you sure you put it in the right place? Did you install the plugin correctly? 🙄 🙊

After a few rounds of responding to what was probably trolling in another part of this forum, where someone (ostensibly) asserted that Cakewalk should be able to create rests in a MIDI track in PRV, I got philosophical about the current state of where musical understanding & performance is going. - Yeah, OK, I was being a grumpy old dude. Then it occurred to me, what's next? If we want to program music that way, shouldn't we add an emoji track to Cakewalk? -In fact, we can even get AI programming involved to have it "respond" to the beats & loops automatically, and then add it and post it to your latest TikTok video! -Oops - I hope Next isn't actually going to go that way, -respectfully... I'm all for easy content creation and expression, but I think that this idea gets the poop emoji from me!

Timed gaps in MIDI are one thing, but what instrument is playing is just as important, because if the instrument doesn't naturally follow the gap, it is not going to work in the way you seem to want. In fact, if you've worked in music notation and conducting, you will know that rests are handled differently by some instruments (and often hired players, but I digress). In any case, MIDI - which is what the PRV is for entering & editing, is not the same thing as the actual note that an instrument plays. MIDI is only the command being sent to the instrument. Some MIDI instruments, primarily percussion, include specific "mute" notes & rules, to create a gap, in a fashion natural for that instrument. In that case, you can specifically design when the previous note ends with a series of MIDI entries in the PRV. But in most cases, you simply must program the note length on the PRV according to the result it gets from the instrument it is sequencing. The answer to your specific question would have to be answered in context with the instrument you are programming. There are no generic rest entries for using the PRV MIDI note entry. -Yes, you can create designed gaps, down to the tick, in MIDI commands. But that will not necessarily be what the instrument plays. Lots of music works like that. Creatively, you can work with your instrument, and the tools Cakewalk has, to figure out how to put in those gaps correctly, manually, that is the only single answer to your question that I can see.

One procedure that Cakewalk, and other DAWS can offer, -one that is in fact often working under the hood already, and often not as easily understood by those of us who started on analog consoles and recording devices, is to reference data in a single track in multiple ways within a project, without duplicating or modifying the original data, and also then keeping it in sync across multiple routing choices. It has taken me some time to begin using that more in my own mixes, and I wonder if perhaps there might be better ways to make that function more obvious and quicker to use? A lot of other recent posts lead me to thinking how Cakewalk might offer that better than it does now. Primarily on the subject of multiple routing options for a recorded MIDI track output, but it also applies to audio, and that may be even more overlooked because audio is typically just routed in analog fashion to a bus, as well as have sends routed, -again as in the analog world, already. Perhaps an option to create a multi-out track could be one option. If it could bring up a second dialog - similar to the insert soft synth option, which can allow for track creation options - including the number of reference tracks, and perhaps the initial naming, so that it would be clear the tracks are all related (name + -Ref + number), and have the option to populate them inside a track folder, for instance. -I'm not sure if the complications of associated clip and arranger options would get in the way there though, but if it can be done, more of us could quickly route a new track to multiple outputs using the same data track source. -I suppose that might be a track template use option? That still may be too buried, and too many steps. How many of you have used the track view - right -click option to "Duplicate Track" - and used the pop-up options to include "Events" - "Link to Original Clips(s)" - and worked with that functionality? -For me, it is the simplest native option to have recorded MIDI tracking output to multiple devices, and along with keeping one master edit version, gives opportunities to add different levels, fx, etc., to each routing, and the option later to unlink the duplicate(s). -I do it with audio too, for various patching options, which, if I was trying it from an analog console, would take a lot of work... You get the picture. In any case, might there be a better way to implement this in Cakewalk Sonar, or perhaps I am already missing something and it just needs better exposure as is?

Typically, MIDI input assignments in Cakewalk, in fact device assignments in general, change when devices are unplugged and/or added, and even when drivers are updated, and that is mostly a function of how PCs deal with various device driver loading, before it even gets to Cakewalk. Although it can be tough, my approach has always been to make sure you start the PC with all desired devices plugged in and available, or at least made available in the same sequence in the OS before starting Cakewalk. -However, in my experience, sometimes even that cannot guarantee updates or other non-Cakewalk related events will not change the device startup - listing order. As per @57Gregy mentions - you may save yourself some hassle by not leaving inputs assigned all the time in saved projects - I follow that same rule. In regards to fixing the changed inputs in bulk: When I want to switch, or assign multiple MIDI inputs to the same device, I use track view and inspector view together, and ctrl-select all MIDI tracks I want to (re)assign, -starting in track view by holding down ctrl starting with the first track, and then at the final selection, -without letting go of the ctrl key-, selecting the MIDI output device I want in the inspector. -There are also other similar procedures. As a note - once in a while if I notice a major change in MIDI input assignments, -before saving the project again-, I have had luck simply restarting the PC with all devices connected in proper order, and re-opening the project, or sometimes even disabling the MIDI devices in Cakewalk preferences, closing the app, then restarting & re-enabling... but I know all of that can be a pain. -And - the results could sometimes even be worse, so be careful! -Still - if you have that many projects that could be affected, those methods may be worth a try in a pinch.

It seems like you may be confusing 2 MIDI note entry methods. Rests are a musical notation, and in Cakewalk represented in Staff View. They do not have a MIDI entry in PRV. But yes, you could technically then create "gaps" in PRV entries to the same effect, programmatically. -Neither of which may be performing as you expect though. As to your experiences with notes entered on the PRV (or anywhere) seeming to sound longer than the time you put them in on the grid - I would look into whether the instrument you are sequencing plays the notes based on the timing (and velocity, etc.) that you send from the track, or perhaps in fact only uses note on messages, etc., effectively so that notes hold (or not) for their own timing and what have you. -There are also other considerations to be included in that category, such as whether you also have a hold (pedal) command already in effect, etc., so do check that too. For reference - yes, creating a "gap" in the PRV note entries would most typically then create a rest in the Staff View, but again, if your instrument does not play notes with absolute note-on - off responses, that "gap" would not necessarily be honored on playback.

I don't have that particular VSTi, but I do have another that exhibits the same way, but only in the VST3 version. -Even some VST2 synths will not respond to patch changes, without consulting the settings required in their documentation. Some VST2 synths require enabling MIDI patch changes manually, and some VST3 versions have other suggested workarounds for MIDI patch changes. -It all depends on the particular plugin. -On mine, the patch saving routine is even particular, as I get the same default to patch 1 in a default bank... but instructions in the synth manual helped with that. -Still a pain though!

Starting from the viewpoint that "clunky" will be interpreted, and in fact used by others as a widely-variable, often throwaway term, I think I will just react mostly to @msmcleod in his addition to this thread, and try to keep it simple. (Right... after reviewing later, well...) And to be clear, I am mostly reacting as a fairly comfortable user of the current CbB release, otherwise we could go on & on. New users, non-forum involved ones, critics, will all have their own, often quite valid statements as to what is "clunky". Feature options and methods generally available, have always been my stumbling block for almost any complex tool, and Cakewalk is no exception. Even in the days of the new feature video (for while you download- are you kidding me, with average bandwidth back then?) in the install & start screens, -none of that ever fixed not knowing the existing basics in the first place. So, while the current help module option is a good addition, some kind of separate user guide for common tasks, very prominently offered, and a comprehensive natural-language search query response engine to access that and all the documentation, would be my first suggestion. -Maybe AI will be able to help with that (as long as we are careful...). -Even having more prominent links to allow casual users to know about these forums (and hopefully feel comfortable to do so) could help with that. I know, -that one subject is a huge ask for a software company, since it can be so resource intensive and hard to gauge a return from. I can only say that my guess is, that if more users can easily jump on board, and feel comfortable, it would pay off. -Note: - I have found no other DAW that is less "clunky" in that respect though, so far. Outside of that, specific items for what I work with, mirror many of the issues already stated earlier in this thread. For MIDI-centric users, some of the older tools are hard to use, such as the drum maps, event viewer, and tools to deal with older MIDI such as PRV display & conversion options, as well as legacy items like instrument definitions - note mapping in general. MIDI routing options are still limited in some ways (BTW - one option I use for sending 1 MIDI track to multiple VSTis is to right-click duplicate the track & check link to original then name accordingly...) - they could be more comprehensive I guess, though a lot of that simply needs to be more usefully explained, as per my suggestions earlier. Audio options (and performance) in the use of comping are something I still find a bit wieldy (not clunky exactly...) for some reason. I wish I could explain that better, but for whatever reason, I tend to avoid using that feature, often in favor of new tracks instead. -Perhaps consolidating & adding to the methods for adding tracks - it still seems many folks don't understand what live input routing does, especially in audio, -that might be another add track option somehow. But again, explaining, and cleaning up the various entry points for that type of thing would be a good direction to go in my experiences of using Cakewalk over the various iterations up until now. -Also, I did have issues learning audio path - fx routing for using the ProChannel plus the fx bin combo - some of that is improved from earlier versions, but I still keep a screenshot of the Cakewalk audio routing path handy to refresh my aging memory... Aux track & patch point usage/info is still a bit rough too. And yes, I know many of these things can't be fully changed without affecting backwards compatibility, and adding is what is contributing to clutter, so understandably, some of that is always just going to have to be taken into consideration by all here. Still, the bottom line for me is always explanation - and getting myself and others to accept/find it readily. -Tough task in most of life's workflow - to be sure. All the templates, documentation, Cakewalk gives us, and yet, there's always something... and then somebody calling it clunky, I guess!

Buying, owning, many, many "things" in our modern world has changed, - a lot for some of us old enough (yes, I know, grumpy gramps talking...) - and that affects everyone, in different ways, to be sure. I've learned so far that I can only make as good a choice as I am capable of, and if possible, try and help to make it work out. When Gibson dumped on us with Sonar, we all had to deal with that. Now, somehow we are still here with a progression of Cakewalk software, and I for one plan to try and continue to make the best of it. -Of course - open forums encourage all opinions and expressions, but I have to wonder sometimes if people realize the logical loops created by complaining without offering any positive solutions. -Ah well, perhaps it all helps in the end. I just hope the devs can sort through all this hubub and continue to keep this Cakewalk thing going, and getting usable feedback from members here. It has previously been a mostly positive experience from my vantage point, so far. Yes - software, and related product "ownership" has changed a lot in the past 30 years & counting. But creators and companies that stay alive generally keep working because we support them with our dollars - with varying shades of the effects of the balance of power (wealth), of course. -I'm just happy Cakewalk wasn't dumped - again. On the grumpy side: I too wish I could use an iPhone 3 with the current Apple software and a phone provider of my choice. -Instead now of having a phone that could plug into any jack, in almost any major country, I have to pay again (or subscribe) to get an entirely new one, or eventually they cease to work for the primary purpose I bought it for. Adobe still owns all my and my client's PDF software rights, and could shut them off at any time. Avid MC used to be the solid, reliable, backwards-compatible media editing & storage option. -See the previously mentioned company about that now. (Isn't there already a book out there called "Future Shock"? - I really should read it) Salespeople can never be trusted to tell us the truth. -Oh, wait, -are you working sales for that new startup now... Oops, sorry about that. I can open my client's original Apple Mac Word .doc file on almost any device and still figure it out. The original licensed Word for Mac will not work on any modern computer normally. -And this could go on & on... We all wish everything could stay the same, unless of course we don't like it. -Pick your battles, when you can, I am told. -Seems wise to me. -Well, at least until AI starts turning off the heated seats and driving me where I don't want to go, anyway. I wonder, -will AI let us unsubscribe even? Be happy when you have a choice. I think Cakewalk here seems to be continuing in that general direction, and that works for me. Today.

I will second that sentiment here. While I am very thankful Sonar got revived and even re-released as a free licensing model (p.s. that term is important), I had been wondering for some time now, just how long that would last. -This recent development decision may fix that, for me -certainly for a while anyway. Because of course, no product, free or otherwise, is absolutely guaranteed to succeed. Amazing in some ways we even got here with our old purchases from the previous companies somewhat intact. I plan to be positive, and work forward with what options suit my needs. And, so far it looks like familiar names & programming are still promised to be behind it. As to all the licensing options, I see so many people get frustrated, and take it personally. Not just with this product, mind you, but many times now, in a multitude of contexts, over the years I have been both a musician and a computer & networking consultant, as- well as a personal computer user. I will say, it took me many years to understand the methods by which computer software has changed what us consumers think of as product ownership. And sometimes it still bothers me even so. Regardless, I've learned that in reality, unless I am an IP owner or developer/owner of a software product, I have never owned any software put out by a major company. I have owned the hardware that may (or may not) properly run it, but that is it. I learned, eventually, that the majority of the software that runs on computers has a licensing model, and all major IP owners & developers have been using nearly the same terms since computers gained mass-market sales potential in the 1980s, and some even earlier. Most software is licensed, -not sold. Cakewalk, and most all the software that runs on and with it, as well as the OS it needs to run at all, is given, or sold, on a licensing model basis. Since most of us can never live through reading all the reams of legalspeak and manage to follow references to often distantly posted terms and such, that we now routinely agree to, when starting up a new computer, or installing software, it may slip our minds. But make no mistake - software is not like the hardware it runs on or say, a toaster or a pair of shoes for instance, -perchance in our world maybe a nicely crafted guitar even. -With software, all that is sold, or given access to for free, -depending on the licensing terms-, is whatever rights are stated in the TOS for us to use it. -Not own it. I know I never have. I don't own any software products or IP. So, when it comes to paying for it, or complaining about what happens with it when true ownership, stewardship, and development decisions change, I just try to keep that in mind. And, depending on how much I trust that process, and whether I must depend on that process to accomplish goals I want to achieve, is how I decide whether I want to pay for one version of a software tool, or multiple versions, in lump sum or in payments, is how I go with licensing these days. -At least when there is a choice. Again, I think the planned options revealed so far, in this latest continuation of the Cakewalk saga, seem promising, and I hope to continue growing with it, and the people who enjoy developing and using it.

Even Windows Media Player can be configured to rip CD tracks to .wav format files, -as long as you still have a system with connectivity to a disc drive anyway. Then do yourself a favor, and convert the 44.1 16-bit files that creates to the standard you are using in Cakewalk projects, before you import them to tracks. -One free great option is https://www.voxengo.com/product/r8brain/ - I have used that for years. -Use the high quality setting for reference files. Of course Cakewalk itself will upsample CD content quite well by itself, just check the import options when you bring in the tracks to set the level you want.

Wow, and thanks for replying. -I do a lot of work with multis and back them up too, just for that type of thing, in fact. I will now be sure to look out though, and maybe I will test some of my stuff (with backups in place) with the reset function, to try and dig deeper and to see what the deal is. -I would say - good to know, -but since we haven't solved anything for you, for now again just thanks for the detailed info!