How did I not hear this guy before?

[Rain]

It's Sunday morning for the rest of the world, but Friday night for me.

Meaning I get to relax, listen to music and look up stuff on YouTube.

I am embarrassed to admit I'd never heard Lenny Breau before now. But I'm even more embarrassed to have referred to myself as a guitarist...

 

Edited April 22 by Rain

[craigb]

He's pretty good, but take that capo off and he's nothing!!! 😜

(J/k!  I've never heard of him either and, at first glance, thought it said Lenny Bruce! 😆)

I never learned to finger pick... 😕

Edited April 21 by craigb

[kennywtelejazz]

How did I not hear this guys before?

The short answer is the current powers that be on the internet are so busy shoving a bunch of meaningless non nutritious music and second rate performances  on everybody it  has become almost impossible to find a real influential  musical  genius from the past that happens to be the real deal .

In the mid 70's onward Lenny Breau was held in high regard amongst many of the absolute best guitar players from that era .

Lenny recorded  duet albums with Chet Atkins ..As a Jazz player Lenny recorded and did a film documentary with Tal Farlow .

Lenny also had a robust  musical background and for those that don't know it  Lenny was single-handedly responsible for having been the earliest guitar player to utilize the cascading harmonic arpeggio effects  most people have come to associate with Tommy Emmanuel  ...

Sort of like what Van Halen did with tapping

For the record Lenny was playing them every bit as good as what Tommy does in today's era ...

When Cher' was doing a concert in my area ( mid 70's ) I met her guitar player and many of her back up band .They were staying at a hotel and I spent hours with her guitar player jamming with him . He  taught me the correct tech on how to play those cascading harmonic arpeggios .

Lenny also became one of the first 7 string guitar players playing unaccompanied solo Jazz Performances . Sometime in the late 70's going into the 80's . IIRC Aria made a 7 string classical guitar model as his signature guitar .

The depth of Lennys talent was very deep ,Yet like many super talented musicians from that era Lenny had succumbed and entered into the tempestuous  allure of heroin addiction ....He braved on and still performed but unfortunately his life ended when he was murdered ..

to this day his murder is still unsolved .

all the best

Kenny

 

[Rain]

I studied classical guitar for a few years, so I had to learn. 

For the audition, I had to borrow an acoustic (steel strings) and I played Diary of a Madman (the intro) with a pick.  A few months later, my teacher handed me handed me charts saying "I think you'll like this one". The piece was Leo Brouwer's Etude No. 6.

 

[pwal³]

8 hours ago, kennywtelejazz said:

The short answer is the current powers that be on the internet are so busy shoving a bunch of meaningless non nutritious music and second rate performances  on everybody it  has become almost impossible to find a real influential  musical  genius from the past that happens to be the real deal .

this has always been the way ( substitute "internet" for "mainstream media" ) - there's so much great stuff that doesn't pass the "monetisable product" corporate test - it's the same old "art versus product" thing - -why would the big companies push stuff that doesn't (they think won't) make them money? in my teens i discovered so much music that i'd never heard of! so since then i spend time actively looking for stuff, rather than waiting for some bloated suit to suggest it

/goodluck/keeplooking/thegoodstuffsoutthere

 

[X-53mph]

My son is a student at conservatory, and he's surrounded by super talented musicians (there is one guitar player who plays a bit like Lenny here). Sadly, however, whenever there is a concert or show, they struggle to get a crowd. Even family and friends don't come to see their own kids. I find it shocking. I'm there at ever concert my son plays, watching with my heart in my throat. I never had the opportunity to study music, so these young performers  amaze me with their level of skill and commitment. 

Many years ago, I had the joy of seeing Paco de Lucia  twice in concert. Though not exactly the same genre as Tommy, he had those finger picking skills that left you dumbstruck. RIP

Edited April 22 by X-53mph

[craigb]

6 hours ago, Rain said:

I studied classical guitar for a few years, so I had to learn. 

For the audition, I had to borrow an acoustic (steel strings) and I played Diary of a Madman (the intro) with a pick.  A few months later, my teacher handed me handed me charts saying "I think you'll like this one". The piece was Leo Brouwer's Etude No. 6.

 

Their definition of "Simples" is different than mine! 😆

[TheSteven]

On 4/21/2024 at 11:34 AM, craigb said:

He's pretty good, but take that capo off and he's nothing!!! 😜

My story^
Someone stole my capo and now I can't even tune my nylon string guitar. 😢
My career arc destroyed overnight.

 

 

I never mention that I only have one nylon string guitar (a Costco special) and it's a POC.
The demo in the store sounded way better, mine's very dead sounding in an odd meh sort of way. 
My own fault - I should have opened the box in the store and checked it out before paying for it.  It was on sale, bought it on a whim and stuck the box in my closet before flying out to Utah to take care of my dad.  When I got back around 4 months later I didn't feel right about returning it after that length of time; if I had paid more I might have been pissed off enough to try and get my money back.
Probably TMI

Edited April 22 by TheSteven
fixed typos

[Starship Krupa]

13 hours ago, pwal³ said:

this has always been the way ( substitute "internet" for "mainstream media" ) - there's so much great stuff that doesn't pass the "monetisable product" corporate test - it's the same old "art versus product" thing - -why would the big companies push stuff that doesn't (they think won't) make them money? in my teens i discovered so much music that i'd never heard of! so since then i spend time actively looking for stuff, rather than waiting for some bloated suit to suggest it

/goodluck/keeplooking/thegoodstuffsoutthere

 

THANK YOU!

This has long been my line.

Old farts go on about how the top 10 these days is such total crap compared to when they were young. Oh, you mean back when "Having My Baby" and "You Light Up My Life" went to #1?

How many Led Zeppelin songs made it to even the top 40? "Whole Lotta Love" and how many others?

Finding cool and interesting music has always taken effort. It's actually so much easier now to find exciting music than it was back in the day when the only way to have your music heard nationally was to please both corporation-owned record companies and corporate-owned radio stations. Yeah, we had "freeform" FM stations, but much of their programming was also playlisted.

Sure, maybe you'd see a review in corporate-owned Rolling Stone or Spin or whatever and check it out, but that was it.

All the rest of it had to come via word of mouth, record store clerks, indie labels we trusted, later, college radio, going out to shows and liking the opening act, sitting through half a dozen MTV videos to find something you liked, etc. People don't remember but it took WORK.

But today we're in a world where, thanks to the internet, I can sit here at home, create a song, and put it up for sale. And I get to keep 90% of the money rather than the 10% artists used to get from record sales (if they were lucky). And as a consumer, I have access to so much written information and recommendations based on my tastes, either curated or by algorithms.

College stations are still around, and I can listen to every college station in the world if I want to.

Even YouTube recommendations are a good way. I clicked Watch on YouTube on the Lenny Breau video and got 2 documentaries and a TV performance. Keep clicking and the algo will point you at similar artists. And, friend recommendation, anyone who liked the Lenny Breau song should check out the all-but-forgotten Sandy Bull. So ahead of his time.

When was the last time you asked a friend if they were listening to anything new and exciting?

I throw it in other geezers' faces: if you think "today's music" sucks, it's not the music that sucks, it's the lack of effort you put in to seeking it out.

Don't stay in your Spotify comfort cocoon. When people get older, we tend to seek comfort more than novelty. Finding new music that moves us takes us to new places, emotionally, culturally, and that's risky in a way. And if you hear a bunch of meh music along the way, well, we've always had to wade through stuff that didn't move us to find the stuff that did.

In other words, don't stop rockin'.

 

Edited April 22 by Starship Krupa

[craigb]

This might be the right place to confess that I was never much of a fan of the "Top-Whatever" list...  In fact, as I grew older, I would buy albums and listen primarily to the songs that weren't the so-called big hits on those albums...

[X-53mph]

On 4/23/2024 at 12:29 AM, Starship Krupa said:

Finding cool and interesting music has always taken effort. It's actually so much easier now to find exciting music than it was back in the day when the only way to have your music heard nationally was to please both corporation-owned record companies and corporate-owned radio stations. Yeah, we had "freeform" FM stations, but much of their programming was also playlisted.

Sure, maybe you'd see a review in corporate-owned Rolling Stone or Spin or whatever and check it out, but that was it.

All the rest of it had to come via word of mouth, record store clerks, indie labels we trusted, later, college radio, going out to shows and liking the opening act, sitting through half a dozen MTV videos to find something you liked, etc. People don't remember but it took WORK.

But today we're in a world where, thanks to the internet, I can sit here at home, create a song, and put it up for sale. And I get to keep 90% of the money rather than the 10% artists used to get from record sales (if they were lucky). And as a consumer, I have access to so much written information and recommendations based on my tastes, either curated or by algorithms.

I'm gonna push back against some of what you said here.

Sure, back in the day the Top Ten was always jam packed with candy floss toss, but that was music for the general public. I remember my step father used to DJ on river boat parties, and he'd buy the top-ten singles every week, because he knew they were the ones most people would ask for. He had crates full of top ten singles from the previous years, and I would sometimes go through them hoping to find a gem. As you can imagine, most of it was trash. Anyone remember Tarzan Boy? Crazy Frog? Those were the songs people wanted to listen to.  That was for the masses.

But we are not talking about that here, right? We are talking about high musicianship and connoisseurship. There used to be places for people like that . In the UK, there were late night DJs like John Peel who would introduce niche audiences to niche music. My friends and I would tape his shows because you were guaranteed to discover a gem each time (on a side note, I was luck enough to have my single be played by him shortly before his passing). Then there was the indie scene. I grew up buying bootlegs and test pressings from small indie record shops.  They were places to hang out, meet like minded people, even meet the bands sometimes. That was a far cry from big labels. Sure you had to make the effort to go to the shop....but you were likely to get recommended something great by the guy behind the counter, and that personal touch meant a whole lot more than the 'other buyers also liked' suggestion at the bottom of your Amazon order or YouTube page. They were places of community.  

Also, how did a teenager living in the suburbs of the UK get to know about American indie music? DIY Skateboard videos is where. Before the internet, we used to circulate low quality skateboard videos. That was where I discovered Sonic Youth, Dinosaur Jnr, Black Flag, Husker Du etc. Sure there was MTV, but most kids I knew didn't have MTV or cable or satellite.  

Later on, in my 20s, it was boutique labels that introduced me to the best music.  If you liked Bjork, you'd check out the rest of One Little Indian's roster. If you were into Badly Drawn Boy, you'd check out the other artists on Twisted Nerve. The labels were a form of curation, just as great DJs were curators. Not everyone was in the pockets of big labels, and not every label was out to shaft the little guys. Many of them where like small families. 

However, that all seems to have gone now. Sure, there are still labels (online and offline) but they are trying to stay afloat in an ocean of trash. Sure there are playlist curators....but.....comon.....seriously?

It's not that the Brave New World of the internet self distribution doesn't have its pros (I can now write a song, record it in a day, and have it up on-line in 24 hours - whoopy), it's that any level of real curation has fallen to the wayside. The so-called gate-keepers were there to slow down the onslaught of sludge. 

I'll explain a bit more clearly from my own personal experience.

A few years ago I decided to explore the world of internet radio. There are lots and lots of legitimate radio stations on-line which will accept open submission from unknows, unsigned artists. I started pushing my stuff wondering if this might lead somewhere. As I'm sure you all know, if you have an account with Spotify or Bandcamp etc, you can see your stats on a daily basis, you can monitor the progress. You can see when, where, even who, listens to your music. (I don't think this is always a healthy thing). Well over the course of two years having my music playing on loads of radio stations (sometimes on a daily basis), being nominated for an award, being put into dozens and dozens of playlists, the impact on my stats was....nothing.  Most playlists are never listened to by anyone other than the artists on them (just sign up to one of the many playlists on X/Twitter and you'll receive your set of instructions to stream the entire playlist daily to 'improve' each others stats). Those radio stations (I suspect) are not listened to by anyone other than the artists on them either. It started to feel like nothing more than a vanity project. Now, take into account the millions and millions of songs being self released every day; where is the audience for them? That is, in my opinion, the problem with the internet model. The sheer volume and the lack of curation.

@Starship Krupa what I'm specifically kicking back against is when you said 'it's the lack of effort' that people put into finding new music. I disagree. Suggesting that the listener isn't trying hard enough to find new music when they have to wade through a sea of millions and millions of mediocre (or worse) self-published stuff is disregarding just how frustrating it has become. And let's also be clear. We don't just search out music that sounds good. We want a story. We want a package. We want a brand. That's why the people who are good at self promotion are the top feeders.  But being internet savvy and good at promotion doesn't necessarily make someone a great writer of player. Let's be honest, to get to the level of Lenny Breau you'd have to be playing for hours each day...not servicing your online accounts and pushing content.  But that's what it has become.

When I was talking with a mentor he told me a thing that I recognize to be sadly true. 'It's not about the music anymore. The music is just a freebie'. No-one want to pay for music anymore. So musicians are now having to use the music as ways into selling something else. At the moment the big trends are services promising the keys to the kingdom. Promises of increasing your Spotify stats if you sign up to their course. Promises of perfect mixes if you sign up to their course. The music is just an end product, like the crappy pottery experiments that are the end result of that 2 week pottery course. The music has become devalued to such a level that it means nothing. 

Sure there are still great musicians out there. Sure we can go look for them. But it's like me putting you in a shipping container yard in Shanghai and telling you to find a great pair of shoes: they are in there somewhere, but how much effort are you going to put into finding them?

Edited April 24 by X-53mph

[kennywtelejazz]

This whole the music today is better than the music of my youth debate got settled a long time ago for me...

First off, every musician I ever knew never bought a record and listened  to the first listen of the record all by his or her lonesome .Typically there would be 8 people jammed into the guys mothers basement or toughing it out in his smoke filled bedroom elbow to elbow hunched over passing the album around so everybody can see the art work as the songs played .

I don't care who you were , when you bought a new guitar those same 8 guys would show up at your house and then we would pass that guitar around person to person just like an Indian Chief would pass around the ceremonial peace pipe .

Music was an event that was meant to be shared .....

People of my era knew this and they gathered around Musical activities and hung out socially to feel the buzz and effects of the music collectively  .

When somebody bought a new pedal or learned how to play a Pink Floyd guitar solo we would all get together and teach each other how to play it ...

Nobody I knew played music in a vacuum . If you played the chords to Stairway To Heaven wrong two things would happen . The luscious succulent hottie you were trying to impress  knew how the song was so posed to go because the other 7 guys from the 8 I mentioned before had already played it for her so she would have to bow out of your advances ...In any case just when you felt the devastation of having just failed one of the other guys would pull you aside and show you how to play the song correctly .  

Every one I knew would practice together .

And I'm not just talking about my high school pals ...I wont drop names right now but I have always had people that wanted to learn tunes and woodshed together ....I'm gonna take that info to the grave with me simply because nobody would believe me if I mentioned some of the people  that have asked me to show them what I just did .Name Cats on the covers of mags in some cases .

I have met everybody I have wanted to meet except for Santana and Leslie West . I feel very fortunate to have gotten my feet wet in music at a time when 20 bucks would get you in the door ....When I didn't have the 20 I would find out where the equipment truck was and I told them I would unload and help them set up and more often than not they would hand me the guitars and amps and I would walk then into the theater .

When Roy Buchanan played Town Hall in the mid 70's I sat right there a little off to the side at his feet on stage ...I will always remember that show ...

Now 'm not trying to take you guys down memory lane but I have met and hung with every body musical from all genres of music at a time when the artist was approachable , the concerts were priced reasonably and the music was relevant ...

So for me what they call music now simply does not hold the appeal it may as it does for younger people ....I'm just not into watching a scantly dressed singer lip syncing while shaking her booty with 50 back up dancers evading explosions and streams of light ...

Everyone I ever wanted to meet in real life and hear them perform is a blessing too me ....maybe some day I'll drop names ..not today

all the best

Kenny

 

 

[Starship Krupa]

11 hours ago, X-53mph said:

I'll explain a bit more clearly from my own personal experience.

Excellent rebuttal/rant. Let the jibba-jabba flow.

On the consumer side:

Sigh. Yeah. I even agree with what you're saying, coming from your...uh....current perspective. It IS harder in some ways. And we're older and not surrounded by a network of rabid music fans the way we once were.

But that's what I mean about having to work. For the kind of music that excites me today, I have dug up good curated streams. It helps that the electronic music I'm into now still has a good current following. Platforms like Bandcamp have blogs that talk about promising artists, YouTube makes recommendations, etc.

And for SURE, it ain't always about finding stuff that's current. Some of the stuff that I've found recently was originally produced 5, 10 20 or 30 years ago. It's new to me and that's what I want.

Also this tool, Music-Map, is a fun and useful way to find artists who are working in the same genres you're seeking out. Put in anything you want and it will find something that has similar elements.

Artist side:

As far as the revenue streams and curation and finding audiences and audiences finding artists, we're still in the midst of a HUGE shift. For fans of The Expanse, we're in what Amos called the Churn. An upheaval that some will survive and some will not. Who knows what the future holds? Things can shift very quickly in the entertainment realm. How long ago was it that Netflix was competing with Blockbuster?

I say what I say because I'm one of those annoying glass half-full people.

Creating a brand and story, well, it's there on Bandcamp and YouTube. Superabbit is a person who lives on an island and makes music. Even that much can be interesting to people. Or not.

Musicians becoming rich never happened until fairly recently in human history. Even my idol and namesake, Gene Krupa, who revolutionized playing the drum kit the way that Eddie Van Halen revolutionized playing the guitar (and had as much or more involvement in its development as Les Paul did for guitar). Krupa wound up teaching drums in New York (supposedly Peter Criss was one of his students).

Even making a decent living has always been difficult for the majority of players. Coffee house gigs. Teaching. The people we consider the great composers had rich people who just gave them money to sit around and compose. Mozart's funeral? Dusted with lime and dumped in a common grave.

Right now you're one crispy critter, and believe me, I've been there, with many formerly beloved pursuits. I stepped away for however long it took to come back to it when/if I wanted to do it for the love of it. That's what I did after my last band imploded. In its meagre way, it was the best shot I ever had at coming up through the old record company/gigging/radio play system (when bartenders and sound people stop you during loadout to say that they really liked your set, job well done). Walked away with my head down, hardly played a note for about 5 years. (I did get what many dudes want from being in a band, a cutie pie girlfriend) Then I happened to buy a house with a rental cottage out back occupied by....a piano teacher. Never played keys before, never really worked theory, but what the heck, eh?

It retriggered my interest in music to the point that my next career was starting my own pedal building and amp design and repair business. Also got a sweet musician girlfriend. All of those things are gone now, but the interest in making music remains.

The old hippie "if you love something set it free, if it comes back to you, etc." might apply here.

Who knows? Do we choose music or does music choose us? It seems it won't friggin' leave me alone.😄

[Starship Krupa]

9 hours ago, kennywtelejazz said:

So for me what they call music now simply does not hold the appeal it may as it does for younger people ....I'm just not into watching a scantly dressed singer lip syncing while shaking her booty with 50 back up dancers evading explosions and streams of light ...

Nothing new under the sun.

Even now-beloved acts have attracted such shade.

"I'm just not into watching some trumpet player turn his back on the audience and spew whatever notes are in the mode while his piano player vamps over two chords."

"I'm just not into watching four guys with mop hairdos brang away at simplistic 3-chord tripe at ear-splitting volume while a bunch of screaming teenage girls wet their panties."

"I'm just not into watching a bunch of Australian has-been Beatle wannabes trying to pander to the latest trend."

(not implying that what you are hatin' on is in a league with messrs. Davis, Lennon, McCartney, Harrison, Starkey, and Gibb, I'm right with you there😄)

So where are you seeing these scantily clad prostitots? On TV? Has that ever been a way of finding great music (except for the aforementioned mop hairdo guys)? Since the 60's, when Rat Pack geniuses had their own shows, it's mostly been lowest common denominator, with the exception of a few weekend graveyard shift programs and an all music video channel that switched to reality shows.

Y'know, "Oh boy, my little sister is spazzing out because her favorite airhead is on Sonny and Cher."

Back in the day, I wasn't into watching Paul Anka sing about how cool it was that he knocked up his old lady. Nor was I into Debbie Boone screeching about someone lighting up her life. But they were all over TV and radio.

(oddly enough, I've found some GREAT stuff recently being used under closing credits for streaming series, go figure. Storefront Church for Beach Boy lovers, Lil' Yachty for Tame Impala lovers)

Kids These Days don't make music in a vacuum either. Talk to some of them. You might be surprised at what they say.

[kennywtelejazz]

1 hour ago, Starship Krupa said:

Nothing new under the sun.

Even now-beloved acts have attracted such shade.

"I'm just not into watching some trumpet player turn his back on the audience and spew whatever notes are in the mode while his piano player vamps over two chords."

"I'm just not into watching four guys with mop hairdos brang away at simplistic 3-chord tripe at ear-splitting volume while a bunch of screaming teenage girls wet their panties."

"I'm just not into watching a bunch of Australian has-been Beatle wannabes trying to pander to the latest trend."

(not implying that what you are hatin' on is in a league with messrs. Davis, Lennon, McCartney, Harrison, Starkey, and Gibb, I'm right with you there😄)

So where are you seeing these scantily clad prostitots? On TV? Has that ever been a way of finding great music (except for the aforementioned mop hairdo guys)? Since the 60's, when Rat Pack geniuses had their own shows, it's mostly been lowest common denominator, with the exception of a few weekend graveyard shift programs and an all music video channel that switched to reality shows.

Y'know, "Oh boy, my little sister is spazzing out because her favorite airhead is on Sonny and Cher."

Back in the day, I wasn't into watching Paul Anka sing about how cool it was that he knocked up his old lady. Nor was I into Debbie Boone screeching about someone lighting up her life. But they were all over TV and radio.

(oddly enough, I've found some GREAT stuff recently being used under closing credits for streaming series, go figure. Storefront Church for Beach Boy lovers, Lil' Yachty for Tame Impala lovers)

Kids These Days don't make music in a vacuum either. Talk to some of them. You might be surprised at what they say.

Nice try I ain't buying it .

Kenny

[Starship Krupa]

1 minute ago, kennywtelejazz said:

Nice try I ain't buying it .

Not even on Bandcamp??😅

I ain't really "trying" for anything. It's all in good fun. ❤

I miss the old days, too, it's just that I'm enjoying the present and have hope for the future.

Annoying glASS half full dork that I am....