Arturia announces _AstroLab - Avant-garde Stage Keyboard 1599€

[Dave Maffris]

On 4/11/2024 at 5:19 PM, Jim Roseberry said:

My solution to Song Mode isn't super elegant (wastes a lot of patch space)... but it works equally well for me.

I've had an issue with broken Portamento on Synth Engine 1 (intermittent) since firmware 1.08.

Contacted Nord twice... and heard nothing from them.

Only solution is to flash back to firmware 1.06 (where Portamento works exactly as expected).

 

If you haven't, check out the Montage M8x.

It's a huge/heavy beast, but it's a really nice instrument.  Weakest spot is the AN-X filters (which are a bit generic).

I may replace my Stage-4 will the M8x (still haven't decided).

 

Yeah, I know you can work around Song mode, but I don't feel the upgrade is worth it and I need as much patch space as possible in my tribute band, etc.

As far as the Montage, I won't ever buy a keyboard for gigging that is super heavy, and for me, I prefer the 30 lbs or less, as my age, build and general health require this...and I gig too much to be shlepping too much, which is why I have a Nord in the first place and don't necessarily need two or more keyboards or a computer/tablet to do my shows. For studio, I would consider something heavier, but for what purpose, when in my studio most of what I do is software/controller driven, and I want to rehearse with the band and use the same equipment I use on a gig, anyway. There are so many great keyboards, but the heavy ones are just not for me, not even safe for me to try and deal with them anymore.

I now also have a Yamaha CK88, which meets the weight criteria and has 88 weighted keys and sounds very good--not Nord good, but good enough for my jazz and variety band cover gigs, but not my Tribute work, where I use the Nords extra pedals, arpeggiator and other features extensively. 

As far as Song Mode, Yamaha Live mode isn't bad, but not as good at all, plus they don't have a software editor for me to organize my sounds and sets. So I'm gonna be ok with what I have now.

 

[bitflipper]

On 4/11/2024 at 2:19 PM, Jim Roseberry said:

I may replace my Stage-4 will the M8x (still haven't decided).

I have been researching replacements for my NS3, and am seriously considering the Montage M73 (for stage use I prefer 73 over 88 keys, and the 88's polyphonic aftertouch isn't a compelling feature to me).

However, there are no retailers here (or anywhere outside of LA, it seems) where I can sit down with one and see if it'll work for me. Every video demonstration is someone playing solo, and I need to assess it in the context of a live band. All those pretty stacked pads are useless to me in a 70's cover band. I need bright, dry pianos, brass and strings that cut through a live mix. Like my old Yamaha MO8. Would like to hear your thoughts on the M8x and why you're thinking it might be a good replacement for the NS4.

In the course of my search, I came across Arturia's instrument. The idea is great: a cheap, rugged hardware synth with downloadable VIs. My jeans get tight imagining a keyboard instrument hosting Keyscape! But Arturia's libraries just aren't suitable for a classic rock cover band, and 61 keys are often too few. So sadly, I have crossed this one off my list.

Quote

 

As far as the Montage, I won't ever buy a keyboard for gigging that is super heavy, and for me, I prefer the 30 lbs or less, as my age, build and general health require this...and I gig too much to be shlepping too much, which is why I have a Nord in the first place

 

Me, too! I bought my Nord specifically because it was light.

My current main instrument is a Korg Kronos. It, too, has downloadable VIs, but they are specific to the Korg format and many are feature-reduced versions of their DAW-based equivalents. My biggest complaint is that even though it's the 73-key version it still weighs 82 lbs in its flight case and requires two people to lift it onto the stand. That's a selling point for the Montage - still a beast but about 25 lbs lighter.

The Nord has largely been a disappointment. As a sampled-instrument player it leaves a lot to be desired. The pianos are nice-sounding in solo, but not much use in a rock 'n roll band. I mostly use it as a lead instrument, for synth leads. I thought I'd like all the real-time controls more than I actually do, as in the heat of the moment I really don't want to do a lot of fiddling.

[Jim Roseberry]

18 hours ago, bitflipper said:

I have been researching replacements for my NS3, and am seriously considering the Montage M73 (for stage use I prefer 73 over 88 keys, and the 88's polyphonic aftertouch isn't a compelling feature to me).

However, there are no retailers here (or anywhere outside of LA, it seems) where I can sit down with one and see if it'll work for me. Every video demonstration is someone playing solo, and I need to assess it in the context of a live band. All those pretty stacked pads are useless to me in a 70's cover band. I need bright, dry pianos, brass and strings that cut through a live mix. Like my old Yamaha MO8. Would like to hear your thoughts on the M8x and why you're thinking it might be a good replacement for the NS4.

In the course of my search, I came across Arturia's instrument. The idea is great: a cheap, rugged hardware synth with downloadable VIs. My jeans get tight imagining a keyboard instrument hosting Keyscape! But Arturia's libraries just aren't suitable for a classic rock cover band, and 61 keys are often too few. So sadly, I have crossed this one off my list.

Before I moved to the Nord Stage 3 (and then Stage 4), I used the OG Montage.

Played a lot of gigs with the OG Montage 7.

Over time, I grew dissatisfied with it's analog synth capabilities.

In particular, it lacked accurate voice-priority/articulation for monophonic analog synth sounds.

 

I got the Stage 3 after seeing Toto. 

So many touring players were (are) using the Stage 3, there had to be something special about it. 

The local GC had the Stage 3 in-stock... so I gabbed one. 

Up till this point, I'd always used workstation type keyboards.  I never thought I'd be happy using a "Stage Piano". 

I was worried that the Stage 3's two Synth Engines wouldn't allow me to cover things like "Here I Go Again" or "Turn Me Loose". 

Quite the contrary, I was able to program our entire four hour show in two days. 

Ironically, the Stage 3's two Synth Engines are in some ways more flexible than the three Synth Engines on the Stage 4.  

ie:  To cover the Intro for "Turn Me Loose" (G5add9), we need four notes each playing a sawtooth wave.

Each of the Stage 3's Synth Engines allow you to select a pair of waveforms... and tune each waveform individually.

I programmed Synth Engine 1 to play the G root and the 5th above it (both sawtooth waveforms).

Synth Engine two is playing the G octave above and the 9th above the root (both sawtooth waveforms).

 

On the Stage 4, I have to use all three Synth Engines to achieve the same thing.

Each Synth Engine allows a pair of Waveforms... but you're limited to preset 5th and octave intervals.

To get a 9th, 3rd, or 7th interval, you have to use a Synth Engine just for that singular note.

Nord keyboards are great in many ways... but some limitations are head-scratchers.

We get an additional Synth Engine with the Stage 4, but sometimes have to burn it to achieve the same as Stage 3. 

 

Another thing to know about the Nord Stage 3 and 4; user-samples in the Synth Engine are single velocity (there are no velocity splits).

I was initially extremely concerned about this limitation.

A couple years back (playing NYE), we had to cover Garth Brooks' "Friends In Low Places".  

We're a Rock band... but it was requested.

I had to cover the violin melody on keyboard.  I was thinking that was going to be pure unadulterated CHEESE.

Still had the OG Montage, so I called up it's solo violin sample.  OMG, It was awful.  No way would I use it.

Called up the solo violin sample on the Stage 3... and even though it was a single velocity, it sounded far better.

At that point, I stopped worrying about the single velocity limitation.

 

On to the Stage 4:

I was one of the first in the US to get the Stage 4 (pre-ordered the day it was announced).

Stage 4 basically doubles the user-sample space, adds another Synth Engine, and has expanded effects/processing.

As with all keyboards, you don't discover the dirty-details... until you dig deep.  Is that an AC/DC song? 🤪

I  discovered an issue with broken Portamento on Synth Engine 1 (and it's intermittent).

Some have tried to convince me it's a hardware issue... but it's not.

If I flash back to firmware 1.06, Portamento always works as expected.

Nord introduced a bug at firmware version 1.08... that persists in the latest firmware 1.24.

I've contacted Nord twice about this issue.  No response/address after many months.

It's a real pain when you have to cover things the intro for "Turn Me Loose"... where I have to use all three Synth Engines to generate that G5add9.  When the issue happens, Synth Engines 2 and 3 do the two octave glide up... and Synth Engine 1 immediately plays two octaves up (no glide).  This isn't as bad as playing a half-step out of key... but it's a close second.  😉

For me, Portamento is a fundamental function.  It should be fixed.

I should also mention that many of the samples that came with the Stage 3 do not come with the Stage 4.

If you're going to migrate, make sure you keep the Stage 3 until you've fully migrated.

 I had to sample a LOT of the sounds I needed from the Stage 3... and also sampled various instruments to supplement the stock Stage 4 samples.  This took a couple months.  My transition to the Stage 4 was far more time-consuming than the transition to the Stage 3.

The Stage 4 is expensive... and my patience with Nord is wearing thin.

 

Enter the Montage M.

Though not as immediate as the Stage 3/4, the UI now offers much more realtime control.

Takes time to set it up... but you can control drawbars, percussion, noises of a B3... similar to the Stage 3/4.

The M adds AN-X (VA Synth Engine with 16-voice polyphony).  This addresses many of my concerns with more authentic analog synth sounds (especially polyphonic).

Where AN-X falls a bit short; the Filters sound somewhat generic (not a lot of character)... and monophonic note articulation.  Nord's VA mono articulations are more flexible.

ie:  You can have the Filter (only) retrigger based on velocity... while playing monophonic using Portamento. 

AN-X can't do that.

I use this on the Bridge for the synth melody on "Feels Like The First Time".

I'm playing a mono (Moog'ish) synth sound... and I like having subtle control over the timbre of each note (based on velocity).  Yes, I could play it without, but it sounds flat/sterile.

Ironically, Montage M can do this when using the AWM2 (samples) Engine.

 

The Montage M doesn't have many of the odd limitations that you'd find on a Stage 3/4. 

• Montage M has far more user-sample space (3.7GB vs 1GB on Stage 4 and .5GB on Stage 3)
• Splits can be anywhere you choose (they're preset on Stage 3/4)
• User-samples can use velocity splits (limited to a single velocity on Stage 3/4)
• Programming, the M has far more "granular" control

 

A single Montage M part can consist of up to 128 Elements (loosely an oscillator).

Combine that with trigger conditions... and the M is the closest we have to Kontakt in a hardware instrument.

If Yamaha would have provided disk-streaming for samples, it would have been game changing.

Polyphony was never an issue with the Stage 3/4... even on things like "Here I Go Again" where I use four layers (Acoustic Piano, Electric Piano, Synth Pad, Vocal Pad). 

The Montage M has even more polyphony (up to 400 voices). 

Yamaha have released the first version of ESP (a true 1:1 virtual instrument of the Montage M).  This version doesn't have full editing (only quick edits).  The next release will have full/deep editing.

Montage M8x certainly isn't an inexpensive option, but it's $1200 less than the Stage 4.

 

If you get a Stage 4, some of the included samples are pretty lame (brass, choirs, strings, guitars)... especially if you're used to a higher-end workstation.  You'll have to supplement these with your own samples (or source from online venders like Narfsounds). 

For "Addicted To Love", I sampled a brass layer I created in Montage... and layered that with one of the included brass samples.  That made a huge difference.

For "Dirty Laundry", I sampled the Vox organ I was using from the OG Montage.  I didn't have to do this... as the Stage 3/4 have Vox organs... but it sounds more authentic (to the song).

If you grab a Montage M, you won't have to sample much (if anything).

I have to cover Malcom Youngs guitar on "Thunderstruck"... on keyboard.  Didn't want to sound like absolute cheese, so I sampled each of the guitar chords/notes... and put those into the Stage 3/4 and Montage M8x.

The Strings, Horns, Choirs on the Montage M sound very good.

Acoustic Piano and Electric Pianos are (IMO) pretty much a wash.

 

Nord has distilled the Stage 3/4 to those features which are absolutely necessary.

Some limitations leave me wondering why... but I will say that I've always been able to cover what's necessary.

The Montage M is going to be a deeper dive.

It'll take longer to program... but the possibilities are FAR beyond the Stage 4.

If you've ever played the OG Montage 6 or 7, the M7 keybed is identical.

If you've played Korg's unweighted Kronos keyboards, the action is identical.

 

IMO, The Montage M is currently the best all-in-one keyboard/workstation.

It's not perfect... but none of them are.

Downside for many (myself included), the M8x is HUGE and heavy.

Stage 4 88 weighs just a little more than the M7... and you have 88 weighted keys.

Much prefer weighted keys for playing Piano.

M8x action is slightly heavier than the Stage 4.

Stage 4's keybed is light enough that you can move pretty fast.

 

In a perfect world, I'd like the Montage M8x in the size/weight of the Stage 4, the Nord's VA Engine, and no odd limitations.

If you've read this tome, both keyboards are amazing and annoying.

Choose the one who's limitations you can most easily live with (or work around).

 

 Hope I haven't confused more than helped!  😁

Edited April 14 by Jim Roseberry

[bitflipper]

Thanks so much, Jim! Your insight comes at just the right time for me.

Guitar players routinely pick up new axes the way some people casually buy a new pair of shoes. Keyboard players have to be much more prudent. And not just because it's a lot of money (my instrument cases alone each cost more than a nice guitar amp) - each acquisition represents a serious learning commitment. And like Jim says, you don't find out the limitations until later.

I, too, bought the NS3 simply because every band on the planet seemed to have one. My decision was cinched when I saw Brit Floyd, a jaw-droppingly good note-perfect Pink Floyd tribute band. All those critical Rick Wright organ, piano and synth parts were credibly reproduced on an NS2. 

But I'll just say it: Nord synths are over-hyped and overpriced. My now-ancient Korg Kronos bests the Nord by every  measure except weight. Its progressively-weighted keys feel more piano-like than anything short of a dedicated digital piano.  The piano samples are comparable to anything in my Kontakt collection. It contains 9 synth engines, basically the entire Korg history in one box. 

Sadly, neither the Korg nor the Nord replicate a Hammond to my satisfaction. I am thinking it's time to go back to Suzuki for that, as the XK-5 seems to have nailed it.  At the moment I'm picturing the Montage 7 on the lower tier and the Hammond on top.  That combination's eight grand not including flight cases, and the combined resale value of my current instruments is about four grand. A big purchase for a guy living mostly on social security.

Arturia, you almost solved all my problems. Please keep trying.

 

[Dave Maffris]

On 4/13/2024 at 5:47 PM, bitflipper said:

I have been researching replacements for my NS3, and am seriously considering the Montage M73 (for stage use I prefer 73 over 88 keys, and the 88's polyphonic aftertouch isn't a compelling feature to me).

However, there are no retailers here (or anywhere outside of LA, it seems) where I can sit down with one and see if it'll work for me. Every video demonstration is someone playing solo, and I need to assess it in the context of a live band. All those pretty stacked pads are useless to me in a 70's cover band. I need bright, dry pianos, brass and strings that cut through a live mix. Like my old Yamaha MO8. Would like to hear your thoughts on the M8x and why you're thinking it might be a good replacement for the NS4.

In the course of my search, I came across Arturia's instrument. The idea is great: a cheap, rugged hardware synth with downloadable VIs. My jeans get tight imagining a keyboard instrument hosting Keyscape! But Arturia's libraries just aren't suitable for a classic rock cover band, and 61 keys are often too few. So sadly, I have crossed this one off my list.

Me, too! I bought my Nord specifically because it was light.

My current main instrument is a Korg Kronos. It, too, has downloadable VIs, but they are specific to the Korg format and many are feature-reduced versions of their DAW-based equivalents. My biggest complaint is that even though it's the 73-key version it still weighs 82 lbs in its flight case and requires two people to lift it onto the stand. That's a selling point for the Montage - still a beast but about 25 lbs lighter.

The Nord has largely been a disappointment. As a sampled-instrument player it leaves a lot to be desired. The pianos are nice-sounding in solo, but not much use in a rock 'n roll band. I mostly use it as a lead instrument, for synth leads. I thought I'd like all the real-time controls more than I actually do, as in the heat of the moment I really don't want to do a lot of fiddling.

Well, I have done a lot of work on my Nord over the years to get it sounding perfect in nearly all situations, from straight jazz solo piano to Tribute Band stuff, to Rock/Pop/Funk. Not using much of the factory patches, mostly my own, doctored ones, downloaded sound banks from Nord artists as well as 3rd party. Seems I can usually find what I need. Probably the weakest link, IMO are the brass sections and such, but I tweak them or layer and it does a decent job, and I don't hear too many other keyboards whose sounds are much better, although that is definitely a matter of taste and type of music. 

[bitflipper]

33 minutes ago, Dave Maffris said:

I have done a lot of work on my Nord over the years to get it sounding perfect in nearly all situations...

That's really the key, isn't it - knowing your tools well enough to adapt them to your needs. I'm the same way with my Kronos, having heavily customized it over the past decade to suit my application ('60s-'70s cover band).

Unfortunately, I never clicked with the Nord in the same way. I thought the real-time controls would be cool, since the Korg is not easy to modify on the fly. But after nearly 3 years with the Stage, I still find myself turning the wrong knob in the heat of performance and suddenly I've applied a flanger when I meant to kick in a delay. 

My biggest disappointment is with the Stage's Leslie emulation. It's OK on slow but too warbly on fast. I've got a Neo Ventilator but no longer use it in order to minimize setup time. So even though I had intended to use the NS3 for organ, I do most of that on the Kronos with its superior Leslie sim, often playing on the Nord's keyboard for its faster action. I think I'd need a whole music store's worth of instruments to be truly content, but then I'd need a bigger van. And a couple roadies to lug it all.

Well, last night I took the plunge and ordered a Montage, then listed the NS3 on Craigslist at a bargain bin price. My hope is the Montage can suitably take over the Kronos' duties (mostly piano, strings and brass). If it does, then I'll likely add a Hammond XK-5 to the stack. Then surely I'll be happy for my remaining years.

[Jim Roseberry]

Like Dave, I've never used any of the Nord presets.

I've always programmed from scratch. 

Wasn't overly impressed with the stock Stage 4 library... but it's relatively easy to add your own (Sample Robot to the rescue).

 

Went to see Night Ranger last night.

Eric Levy plays a Motif XS on bottom with an organ as second tier keyboard.

Sounded great.  Helps that he's a great player.  😁

 

I'm not huge on B3, but I find the Stage 3/4 to sound ok.

I know what you mean about the fast Leslie.

I was going to mention the Ventilator... but you've already got one.  

 

Montage M has the new Leslie VCM effect (recently ported from their Stage Pianos).

Take some time to get familiar with it.  You can control Leslie speed with the Ribbon (stop, slow, fast).

I use a high-pass filter on the 2-Band EQ (post Leslie)... to pull out a lot of bottom end.

Edited April 15 by Jim Roseberry

[bitflipper]

58 minutes ago, Jim Roseberry said:

I use a high-pass filter on the 2-Band EQ (post Leslie)... to pull out a lot of bottom end.

That's good advice. I do that with all my patches, especially grand piano, in order to keep from stepping on the bass. The Korg has a nice parametric EQ across the entire instrument. Hopefully, the Montage has one, too.

[Dave Maffris]

3 hours ago, bitflipper said:

That's really the key, isn't it - knowing your tools well enough to adapt them to your needs. I'm the same way with my Kronos, having heavily customized it over the past decade to suit my application ('60s-'70s cover band).

Unfortunately, I never clicked with the Nord in the same way. I thought the real-time controls would be cool, since the Korg is not easy to modify on the fly. But after nearly 3 years with the Stage, I still find myself turning the wrong knob in the heat of performance and suddenly I've applied a flanger when I meant to kick in a delay. 

My biggest disappointment is with the Stage's Leslie emulation. It's OK on slow but too warbly on fast. I've got a Neo Ventilator but no longer use it in order to minimize setup time. So even though I had intended to use the NS3 for organ, I do most of that on the Kronos with its superior Leslie sim, often playing on the Nord's keyboard for its faster action. I think I'd need a whole music store's worth of instruments to be truly content, but then I'd need a bigger van. And a couple roadies to lug it all.

Well, last night I took the plunge and ordered a Montage, then listed the NS3 on Craigslist at a bargain bin price. My hope is the Montage can suitably take over the Kronos' duties (mostly piano, strings and brass). If it does, then I'll likely add a Hammond XK-5 to the stack. Then surely I'll be happy for my remaining years.

Man, if I had known you'd list your Stage 3 I would have jumped, although I recently purchased a new one at a fanstastic price because of a mixup that the Store went out of their way to make up for. 

As far as the Leslie emulation on the Nord, a lot of very wonderful musicians I know who are also Nord owners have said they didn't like it--and I don't know what I did to customize mine, but I love it and consider it as good as any I've played (well, maybe the Hammond itself, the real thing, and who knows, there might be many more), not warbly on fast, and I love using the drawbar emulation, drive control, and percussion, etc. People who hear me way it sounds great, too, but again, very individual thing, I know.

Also, I seem to have mastered the onboard controls very early in my ownership, and I use it a ton. So much so that when I decided to pick up a Yamaha CK 88 as an additional board, I did so because it, too, has a fair amount of on board knobs, sliders, etc. that I enjoy using to create instant sound variations without designing separate patches. To each his own, and I get it if someone else doesn't work the same way I do. The result is what matters and your own personal comfort and inspiration is what's most important.  Playiing my Yamaha and Nord side by side (or up and down keyboard shelf), the superior sound of my Nord is obvious in many many patches, especially acoustic pianos, and yet so many keyboardists complain that Nord's ac piano is bad and praise yamaha to the hilt. Mind you, I'm comparing a $5000 vs. $1500 keyboard, so I get it. But I've played other brands and find the Nord (as I've customized it) White Grand, for example to be richer and more complex than any other keyboard's.

As far as Kronos, I've always been interested in them, but a couple of things stand out to me--I've heard it's a long boot up, which is no biggie except when you have to reboot during a show, and it's weight. I may be uninformed here, but I can't lug a keyboard more than 30 pounds or so anymore, so that eliminates a ton of great machines (Nautilus, Montae, some Rolands, etc.) no matter how great they are. I gig a lot and I'm old and getting weaker every day--or more lazy. I've heard great things about the Kawai keyboards, but their sheer weight would make it impossible, especially since I do a lot of solo gigs. I hae three sub 30 lb keyboards, my Nord 76, casio 3100 and yamaha CK 88. I'd add a Kurzweil PC4, but I think I'm all out of money and space in my studio or car, lol.

[Jim Roseberry]

2 hours ago, bitflipper said:

That's good advice. I do that with all my patches, especially grand piano, in order to keep from stepping on the bass. The Korg has a nice parametric EQ across the entire instrument. Hopefully, the Montage has one, too.

Montage has a lot of EQ options.

 

Element (loosely an oscillator):

• Each Element has it's own EQ

 

Part:

• 3-band pre A/B insert effects
• 2-band post A/B insert effects

 

A/B Insert Effects:

• Insert effects can be many different things... including EQ

 

Master:

• Master out has a 5-band EQ

 

Elements make up a Part... and Parts make a Performance.

Every sound (patch) on the Montage OG and M is a Performance.

There's no Single Patch and Multi-Patch. 

If you just need a single Part (sound), it's a Performance with just that one Part. 

Each performance can use up to 16 Parts.

[Jim Roseberry]

11 minutes ago, Dave Maffris said:

Man, if I had known you'd list your Stage 3 I would have jumped, although I recently purchased a new one at a fanstastic price because of a mixup that the Store went out of their way to make up for. 

As far as the Leslie emulation on the Nord, a lot of very wonderful musicians I know who are also Nord owners have said they didn't like it--and I don't know what I did to customize mine, but I love it and consider it as good as any I've played (well, maybe the Hammond itself, the real thing, and who knows, there might be many more), not warbly on fast, and I love using the drawbar emulation, drive control, and percussion, etc. People who hear me way it sounds great, too, but again, very individual thing, I know.

Also, I seem to have mastered the onboard controls very early in my ownership, and I use it a ton. So much so that when I decided to pick up a Yamaha CK 88 as an additional board, I did so because it, too, has a fair amount of on board knobs, sliders, etc. that I enjoy using to create instant sound variations without designing separate patches. To each his own, and I get it if someone else doesn't work the same way I do. The result is what matters and your own personal comfort and inspiration is what's most important.  Playiing my Yamaha and Nord side by side (or up and down keyboard shelf), the superior sound of my Nord is obvious in many many patches, especially acoustic pianos, and yet so many keyboardists complain that Nord's ac piano is bad and praise yamaha to the hilt. Mind you, I'm comparing a $5000 vs. $1500 keyboard, so I get it. But I've played other brands and find the Nord (as I've customized it) White Grand, for example to be richer and more complex than any other keyboard's.

As far as Kronos, I've always been interested in them, but a couple of things stand out to me--I've heard it's a long boot up, which is no biggie except when you have to reboot during a show, and it's weight. I may be uninformed here, but I can't lug a keyboard more than 30 pounds or so anymore, so that eliminates a ton of great machines (Nautilus, Montae, some Rolands, etc.) no matter how great they are. I gig a lot and I'm old and getting weaker every day--or more lazy. I've heard great things about the Kawai keyboards, but their sheer weight would make it impossible, especially since I do a lot of solo gigs. I hae three sub 30 lb keyboards, my Nord 76, casio 3100 and yamaha CK 88. I'd add a Kurzweil PC4, but I think I'm all out of money and space in my studio or car, lol.

Kronos 73 and 88 probably wouldn't work for you.

73-key Kronos weighs 46.5 pounds

88-key Kronos weighs 53 pounds

 

Boot time can take a long while (depending on exactly what you have loading).

I'd say the better part of two minutes.

 

The Kronos 88 is a bit smaller than the M8x (somewhere in-between the Stage 4 and M8x)... and weights about 9 pounds less.

 

The beauty of Kronos is the samples stream from SSD.

The downside is that it's been discontinued.

Getting your own samples into the Kronos is far my cryptic than with Stage 4 or Montage.

 

Korg have said Nautilus is now the successor to Kronos.

I had a Nautilus 88 AT for a brief period.

The UI (screen jumping) didn't click with me.

Much prefer the Kronos UI (and more controls).

That said, I prefer the Montage UI to Kronos.

 

Had the K2700 two separate times.

Tried hard to live with the awful UI the second time.

When I got deeper into programming, I found a problem with Portamento.

It's really hard to describe in words, but it just sounds wrong... like the pitch slide curve isn't correct.  It almost sounds like a glitch.  I have to cover a lot of mono Moog'ish sounds... and that absolutely ended it for me.

 

Pardon me for totally derailing the AstroLab thread!!!

 

 

[frankjcc]

I can't get past the thermostat.

[Sander Verstraten]

Not interested in the Keyboard as I'm not a live musician. But are all those Artist Tribute Presets available in the regular Analog Lab Pro?

[User 905133]

21 minutes ago, Sander Verstraten said:

Not interested in the Keyboard as I'm not a live musician. But are all those Artist Tribute Presets available in the regular Analog Lab Pro?

If you have the free version Analog Lab Play, you could try exploring the Tribute expansion packs (use the search term "tribute" here before your purchase (possibly on one of the 50% off sales) to see if they would meet your needs.   

Edited April 16 by User 905133

[bitflipper]

22 hours ago, Dave Maffris said:

I've heard it's a long boot up, which is no biggie except when you have to reboot during a show

That's a fact. Twice I've had mine accidentally unplugged mid-song, and I was dead in the water for 2 minutes while it booted back up. Compare to the Nord, which takes < 10 seconds. That's because the Kronos stores libraries on SSDs and transfers a user-specified working set of them into RAM on boot up. The price of having 80GB of storage.

And it is a heavy beast. Even worse (~81 lbs) when residing in its plywood flight case. I usually solicit aid from one of my bandmates when moving, setting up and tearing down, lest I do a number on my back.

Still, the Kronos has been a real workhorse. Scrolling through the patch list is like scrolling through Omnisphere's enormous selection. I've also added some third-party libraries. So when the band asks if I've got a particular sound in there, I often tell them to check back with me tomorrow.

Its UI can be rather obtuse when editing, even for basic things such as routing fx. In performance, though, it's great. The large color touchscreen is the best I've seen on a synth. I can create any number of set lists, organize patches any way I like, color-code, pan, transpose and EQ each slot - all without altering the underlying patches. From what I've read in the Montage manual, its Live Sets are just lists. Will know more after it arrives on Thursday.

22 hours ago, Jim Roseberry said:

I prefer the Montage UI to Kronos.

I think I will, too. Even though I can do the equivalent of Scenes with the Kronos (e.g. I have a bunch of EPs in one set list slot for easy switching/layering), the 8 illuminated buttons on the Montage will be quicker and less error-prone when playing live. In the edit screens, I'm seeing a common UI philosophy with my Yamaha mixer, which I like a lot. Yamaha's definitely gotten better at that sort of thing over the years. Maybe they've learned a thing or two from Steinberg.

Apologies to the OP for hijacking the thread, and for all the words. I'm just excited to have a new synth on the way.