Wookiee Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 It is quite interesting that S1 keeps being mentioned, are you aware that if any DAW other than S1 is mentioned, on their forums or social media streams those people are removed and banned from those forums and social media streams. Bandlab have been very generous on that front. I suspect Cakewalk and Bandlab have good reasons for not releasing the products Sonar and Next, they probably want to get it right. From what I understand it is a complete overhaul of the GUI, replacing all the BMP, PNG images possible with vector graphics to make the entire GUI scalable, where possible. That is quite some trick to a GUI that has been in the wild some 9 years and probably 10 to 11 from development. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Kelley Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) Bandlab was certainly generous letting us "borrow" Cakewalk for a couple of years and in return we tried to give feedback to help them make it better. But it wasn't "given" to us for free, it was "loaned" to us for free. I saw a ton of suggestions and issues identified and fix by the developers. It's been quite the event! But all things come to an end. At some point they want Cakewalk back. Now if they change their minds and let us keep it, great but I would expect they will want us to buy Cakewalk (Sonar). If it's worth it, I certainly will but I understand I might have to move over so some other DAW. Edited February 5 by Terry Kelley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misha Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 (edited) Compared to many other software titles, Cakewalk team was great with bug fixes. I have no desire to switch to anything else, as my workflow has not changed significantly in last 10 years. Cakewalk has 90%+ of what I need, with exception of a Chord Track Actually I was very surprised they put development of "arranger" track ahead of a Chord Track. In my view, it should have been the other way around. Edited February 5 by Misha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookiee Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 45 minutes ago, Misha said: Compared to many other software titles, Cakewalk team was great with bug fixes. I have no desire to switch to anything else, as my workflow has not changed significantly in last 10 years. Cakewalk has 90%+ of what I need, with exception of a Chord Track Actually I was very surprised they put development of "arranger" track ahead of a Chord Track. In my view, it should have been the other way around. By chord track do you mean a track that automatically identifies chords. You do know that markers can be used to set a chord pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookiee Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, Terry Kelley said: Bandlab was certainly generous letting us "borrow" Cakewalk for a couple of years and in return we tried to give feedback to help them make it better. But it wasn't "given" to us for free, it was "loaned" to us for free. I saw a ton of suggestions and issues identified and fix by the developers. It's been quite the event! But all things come to an end. At some point they want Cakewalk back. Now if they change their minds and let us keep it, great but I would expect they will want us to buy Cakewalk (Sonar). If it's worth it, I certainly will but I understand I might have to move over so some other DAW. What makes you think you might have to change DAW's? As far as I can establish from reading the advanced information and what has been printed in the forums, the only difference between Cakewalk Sonar & CbB is the way the GUI is drawn. CbB uses fixed BMP's & PNG's and is not scalable, they have said Cakewalk Sonar will use Vector graphics which will be scalable. Functionality will be the same, the look will be the same as near as they can achieve using vector graphics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSistine Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 8 minutes ago, Wookiee said: What makes you think you might have to change DAW's? For me a reason could be the authorization. I could accept an ongoing authorization for the free product, but I am not willing to PAY for something like that! It's not future-safe at all, IMHO! But it's also true for me: I have invested so much learning in this DAW that I rather would like to keep it! Other than the authorization it could be that some minor things have been removed/changed that I liked so much (multiple plugin layouts, external plugin manager, Radius stretch methods, the way of comping, ...). We'll see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Kelley Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, Wookiee said: What makes you think you might have to change DAW's? As far as I can establish from reading the advanced information and what has been printed in the forums, the only difference between Cakewalk Sonar & CbB is the way the GUI is drawn. CbB uses fixed BMP's & PNG's and is not scalable, they have said Cakewalk Sonar will use Vector graphics which will be scalable. Functionality will be the same, the look will be the same as near as they can achieve using vector graphics. Meaning, they want more money than I want to give them and conditions/terms I don't like. I learned Cakewalk - I can learn another DAW. Actually, I am pretty good at two others but so far Cakewalk is preferred. I don't think the new Sonar's functionality will be an issue. To not go south again, Cakewalk has to make enough money to pay for support and development. I don't know how many developers are on the team but that is overhead (I would assume) Bandlab would like to cover at some point. But then who knows that their business plan is. I am impatiently waiting and hope it's something I am willing to open my wallet for. So far I don't know what it will be (although it sounds very close to the existing CbB with an improved GUI), how much they will want ($$$) and what the conditions of use will be (own or rent.) Them telling us it's something we will like (oh, we think everyone will be happy with the terms) is meaningless. What is it. Edited February 5 by Terry Kelley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misha Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, Wookiee said: By chord track do you mean a track that automatically identifies chords. You do know that markers can be used to set a chord pitch. No, a chord track where you can type in (or select) chords and it will reharmonize track that have "follow" engaged. At least for MIDI. I am not interested in workarounds (existing feature). I already have a workaround that I use It has to be similar to S1 or Cubase way of dealing with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookiee Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 @Sistine Historically SONAR had to phone home every now and then when both Roland and Gibson owned it and charged £450.00 to purchase. Most software requires checking in, Cherry Audio, Roland Cloud, Toontrack, all require an active account that can access their servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Kelley Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 A periodic check in doesn't bother me all that much as long as I know how often I have to connect and if I am getting close to needing to connect so I don't find myself in a mountain cabin without internet and CW decides I need to re-authorize. That Would Piss Me Off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookiee Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 @Terry Kelley SONAR when owned by Roland and Gibson charged for the product. More features have been added to the product than in all the time it was owned by Gibson. For 7 years Bandlab have provided CbB for free, improving, stabilising, bug fixing. But I suspect that is all falling on deaf ears. If you own the now defunct SONAR by Gibson you need to understand CbB, Cakewalk Sonar and Cakewalk Next are affectively different products, owned by Bandlab Technologies. Gibson dumped us and the product, Bandlab Technologies did not by Cakewalk Inc. or the SONAR brand, they purchased the intellectual copyright of the software. If you have a problem take it up with Gibson they are the company that sold you a lifetime license. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookiee Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 33 minutes ago, Misha said: No, a chord track where you can type in (or select) chords and it will reharmonize track that have "follow" engaged. At least for MIDI. I am not interested in workarounds (existing feature). I already have a workaround that I use It has to be similar to S1 or Cubase way of dealing with this. Thanks for the clarification, I assume you have made such a feature request? The markers can be assigned a Chord value and any audio loop that is REX or Acidized will follow that pitch assigned in the marker. Never tried it against MIDI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Kelley Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) I don't understand the relevance to my points. I don't have a problem with anyone. I just want them to release Sonar so I can decide if I want to stick with it. I thought Bandlab was quite generous to let us use CbB free for a period of time. Nobody else did. I think you are trying to convince me to drop a position I don't hold. Edited February 6 by Terry Kelley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookiee Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 4 minutes ago, Terry Kelley said: I don't understand the relevance to my points. I don't have a problem with anyone. I just want them to release Sonar so I can decide if I want to stick with it. I thought Bandlab was quite generous to let us use CbB free for a period of time. Nobody else did. I think you are trying to convince me to drop a position I don't hold. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, what you do is always going to your choice and I wish you the best with your decision. What you decide will have no impact on me or my decision. I am just presenting the information I have gleaned from reading the website and forum posts. As for forcing them to release a product, I find I have ask again, do you want them too release a product that they are happy with and feel is suitable for general release or a product that is not ready? Would you buy new car that has not been tested, just quickly hung together and sold because you demand the new version, I suspect not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misha Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 8 minutes ago, Wookiee said: Thanks for the clarification, I assume you have made such a feature request? The markers can be assigned a Chord value and any audio loop that is REX or Acidized will follow that pitch assigned in the marker. Never tried it against MIDI. Ohh yes, not only I, quite a few people requested that over the years. Request has strong support. S1 has this feature only at the highest tier of the program. So that is the point I was trying to make in initial post. I would gladly upgrade to highest tier of future Sonar if it will have that feature (and the price will leave me enough money for bread and water) In Cubase and S1 it works somewhat similar to EZkeys. It reinterprets / reharmonizes MIDI phrases based on chords you chose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Kelley Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) Wookie - Again, I don't understand where you are getting this but let's agree that I don't need to. Edited February 6 by Terry Kelley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookiee Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 @Terry Kelley from what I have read it will be functionally the same as CbB, the GUI may have some differences in its appearance due to the manner in which it is generated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookiee Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 @Misha that would be useful, just like an update to the Staff view, which I have been asking for since SONAR XL was introduced in 2000, and repeatedly asked for with every new version. They obviously have reasons for introducing and adding the features. Have they said anything about different tiers, if so I haven't seen anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misha Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 20 minutes ago, Wookiee said: @Misha that would be useful, just like an update to the Staff view, which I have been asking for since SONAR XL was introduced in 2000, and repeatedly asked for with every new version. They obviously have reasons for introducing and adding the features. Have they said anything about different tiers, if so I haven't seen anything. If my memory serves me well, tiers were mentioned, just not the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elson Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 AFAIK there's only two tiers: Cakewalk Sonar Cakewalk Next I don't think it's going to be too complex as far as a product line here. You're either going to get the simplified DAW for beginners, or the more complex one for Cakewalk veterans/experienced users. I've been using the Cakewalk DAW platform since 1995; it's gonna be a no-brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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