Bruno de Souza Lino Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 One thing I'd be careful is with opinions that bash Linux with a clear notion of distros from 1995. Or people that claim Linux to be worse because it's different. There are a lot of those out there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linux Daws Are The Best Posted June 19, 2023 Author Share Posted June 19, 2023 Well when young people can see that linux is easier to use that windows, and are giving up on macs because they are not the same quality as they grew up with, linux has most definitely arrived at a point where it is more than useful, I actually thought it would take longer, but we have apple and windows to thank for speeding up the process, no wonder gates and co have stopped singing praises for linux like they were a few years back when for whatever unknown reason they were in favour of it and even got involved in submitting code. They think they have the people tied in, making it difficult now to install Linux on devices with newer chipsets, but free software people and hackers will defeat them, and people will leave them when they finally realise the trap they are in. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linux Daws Are The Best Posted June 19, 2023 Author Share Posted June 19, 2023 7 minutes ago, pwalpwal said: priorities, man /goodluck You too, but seriously, games, I gave up when I was a child. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno de Souza Lino Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 Considering Cakewalk nowadays doesn't have the same amount of mind share and market usage it used to have when it was a paid product in the past, maybe a Linux version would be a nice differential which could potentially gather a different type of cust.... Eh...That will never happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 On 6/19/2023 at 5:49 AM, Whinbush said: I simply can not understand why it is not being made available on Linux That much is quite obvious. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linux Daws Are The Best Posted June 22, 2023 Author Share Posted June 22, 2023 6 hours ago, Starship Krupa said: That much is quite obvious. Right back at you, Genius, is that all you got, have you ever tried Linux, if so then please share your experience. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linux Daws Are The Best Posted June 22, 2023 Author Share Posted June 22, 2023 20 hours ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said: Considering Cakewalk nowadays doesn't have the same amount of mind share and market usage it used to have when it was a paid product in the past, maybe a Linux version would be a nice differential which could potentially gather a different type of cust.... Eh...That will never happen. And from the resistance to Cakewalk on Linux on here, Linux is better off without these kind of nay sayers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tim Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 (edited) Not to mention Linux is also better without naysayers that use ProTools, Cubase, Studio One, Logic... Cakewalk by Bandlab and Cakewalk Sonar going forward is a Windows application. Rewriting this for Mac was impractical, so rewriting it for Linux which has far less market share doesn't make any kind of sense at all. This is commercial software, so they must take that into consideration. Why isn't there a Linux version of most of the other major DAWs? There's got to be a reason other than "BUT IT'S TOTALLY BETTER THAN WINDOWS AND MAC!!!" don't you think? Cakewalk Next is cross-platform with Mac and would have a better chance of being ported to Linux, but what is the incentive for them doing so other than keeping a very small minority of people happy who are not using the platforms that almost every other commercial DAW does? The reality is this: This is commercial software, and they have to pay their staff, and keep their users happy enough to keep coming back. The Cakewalk team isn't very big, and I don't think many people here think it would be a good use of their time to port to a platform that has a comparatively small userbase for commercial DAWs instead of keeping the feature updates and bug fixes going for their products that sell to a wider userbase. Linux is great, I've used it since the mid-90s myself. (I still have PTSD trying to make an Intel740 video card work properly with a CRT monitor.) But there's really no compelling reason for most people to move to Linux when MacOS and Windows works fine for the overwhelming majority of users. There are some great DAWs that do work on Linux though, so if it feels that far superior to you than Mac or Windows, then they probably will fit your needs better than Cakewalk. Edited June 22, 2023 by Lord Tim 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linux Daws Are The Best Posted June 22, 2023 Author Share Posted June 22, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Lord Tim said: Not to mention Linux is also better without naysayers that use ProTools, Cubase, Studio One, Logic... Cakewalk by Bandlab and Cakewalk Sonar going forward is a Windows application. Rewriting this for Mac was impractical, so rewriting it for Linux which has far less market share doesn't make any kind of sense at all. This is commercial software, so they must take that into consideration. Why isn't there a Linux version of most of the other major DAWs? There's got to be a reason other than "BUT IT'S TOTALLY BETTER THAN WINDOWS AND MAC!!!" don't you think? Cakewalk Next is cross-platform with Mac and would have a better chance of being ported to Linux, but what is the incentive for them doing so other than keeping a very small minority of people happy who are not using the platforms that almost every other commercial DAW does? The reality is this: This is commercial software, and they have to pay their staff, and keep their users happy enough to keep coming back. The Cakewalk team isn't very big, and I don't think many people here think it would be a good use of their time to port to a platform that has a comparatively small userbase for commercial DAWs instead of keeping the feature updates and bug fixes going for their products that sell to a wider userbase. Linux is great, I've used it since the mid-90s myself. (I still have PTSD trying to make an Intel740 video card work properly with a CRT monitor.) But there's really no compelling reason for most people to move to Linux when MacOS and Windows works fine for the overwhelming majority of users. There are some great DAWs that do work on Linux though, so if it feels that far superior to you than Mac or Windows, then they probably will fit your needs better than Cakewalk. Overlooking what even young people are seeing, apple crapping out early and now cheaping out too, they are buying windows computers, and when they get their belly full of windows taking up half the resources available for spying and running the most inefficient OS of them all, is it really difficult to see how this will end, it is if you believe in the Titanic that is windows, or that apple of old is the same apple we have now. Why not buy a card that works with linux, that is what people who want linux to run do. And time will tell regarding the decline of windows as a result of the crap they are at, same with apple, people don't expect their more expensive chips to perform worse than their very first M1, word is getting around. Edited June 22, 2023 by Whinbush 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tim Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 OK, let's do a hypothetical: You run a small bakery with a small team of bakers. You make pies for your village. You make 3 kinds of pies, beef pies, pork pies and gourmet escargot pies. This business pays your rent, your staff, and puts food on your table. Luckily business is good. The pies you sell most of are the beef and pork pies. They're not your favourites because they're quite fatty and you don't care much for the flavour but the townsfolk love them for some weird reason. You believe your escargot pies are superior in every way to the other pies. You have one guy who comes in every 2 weeks to buy one of these pies and you talk for hours about how everyone else just doesn't get it and they're totally missing out. One day you decide to take a stand to make people see what they're missing. You move all of your focus onto making these escargot pies. Your one guy who loves them as much as you is overjoyed. The rest of your customers are disappointed by this decision and go to the pie shop down the road to have their beef and pork pies since you're no longer putting in the effort to make the thing they liked from you. You know one day that people will eventually come around and realise how crap those beef and pork pies are. They'll see! One day! The young people will eventually get sick of that stuff and abandon ship and see how much better your escargot pies are! You just wait! In the meantime, you can't pay rent, any of your staff, and have to reluctantly close your bakery because your now dramatically smaller customer base has gone elsewhere. Those other guys may be on a sinking ship in your opinion but they still have their lights on and their doors open. It's a commercial product. The Bakers need to be paid. They can't do that with "one day..." 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linux Daws Are The Best Posted June 22, 2023 Author Share Posted June 22, 2023 I believe when hunger sets in because the bakery is not reliable, people will move elsewhere, hope this post is still here in 5 years time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User 905133 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 On 6/19/2023 at 11:20 AM, Bruno de Souza Lino said: One thing I'd be careful is with opinions that bash Linux with a clear notion of distros from 1995. Or people that claim Linux to be worse because it's different. There are a lot of those out there. I am not really a basher of Linux. I can't comment on when others last tried Linux, But I last tried several distros August 2008, including Ubuntu Studio and gNewSense and I have to agree that Linux has come a log way since 1995 (or actually 2000, when I previously gave Linux a serious look). Speaking just for myself, my choice not to use Linux is not based on it being either worse or even different (as in the sense of being unfamiliar and requiring time to learn). Moreover, it is based on my needs. And I do understand expressing personal preferences and even making polite requests. Peace. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linux Daws Are The Best Posted June 22, 2023 Author Share Posted June 22, 2023 1 minute ago, User 905133 said: I am not really a basher of Linux. I can't comment on when others last tried Linux, But I last tried several distros August 2008, including Ubuntu Studio and gNewSense and I have to agree that Linux has come a log way since 1995 (or actually 2000, when I previously gave Linux a serious look). Speaking just for myself, my choice not to use Linux is not based on it being either worse or even different (as in the sense of being unfamiliar and requiring time to learn). Moreover, it is based on my needs. And I do understand expressing personal preferences and even making polite requests. Peace. Reflecting back, I was not pushed to Linux, I had cheaper laptops that would bearly work under windows, so I took the decision to try Linux, that was all it took for me, I never had any big issues with Linux, way less in fact than I had with windows. I could not wait on Reaper to come to Linux, people thought it would never happen, and yet it did. I just see the big two making mistakes that are driving people over to Linux, I partake in many groups, where music plays a big part, and I was shocked to find they use Linux. I see the door is firmly closed to it here, and I have a feeling there will be a missed opportunity to support a growing crowd instead of a shrinking one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User 905133 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Whinbush said: Reflecting back, I was not pushed to Linux . . . . You jolted a memory!!! During the last century I also tried Corel's version of Linux and in fact still have "Using Word Perfect 8 for Linux." You might remember, at one point Word Perfect was the only serious competition for Microsoft Word. Corel invested a lot of energy trying to promote Linux. Microsoft even invested in Corel and some speculated MS had an interest in seeing if Linux would fly. For those who don't know, Corel was later bought out from being a publicly traded company. Shareholders who had the foresight to see it coming (and anyone who had insider information) could have sold their shares for more than the buyout gave them. PS: It looks like I still have some backup copies of corellinux-oc_1.2.iso. I might have earlier versions somewhere. Historical FYI links: Link to wikipedia blub on Corel Linux OS. Link to 2000 Forbes article. Quote In August 2000, Cowpland was accused of insider trading and left. A new board of directors was then appointed and Derek Burney Jr., announced that the product line would be split into several brands—DeepWhite, ProCreate, and Corel. However, these plans were scrapped, and only the Corel brand remained. Corel acquired the graphics software company Micrografx in late 2001. In August 2003, Corel was bought out by the private equity firm Vector Capital for $1.05 a share (slightly more than the cash in the company). The company was voluntarily delisted from the NASDAQ and Toronto Stock Exchanges. Some U.S. shareholders alleged the management benefited from the buyout personally while the buyout price was too low. A lawsuit was filed in the U.S. to stop the buyout and was unsuccessful. Edited June 22, 2023 by User 905133 to add another link related to MS, Corel, and Linux; to add a link; to add a PS re corellinux; duplicate words removed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linux Daws Are The Best Posted June 22, 2023 Author Share Posted June 22, 2023 I had no idea Corel were invovled in Linux, I have Corel Draw, nearly typed Corel Daw there. I would not be thinking of Cakewalk on Linux other than I like Cakewalk, and Linux, and I see that apple and ms for their different reasons becoming less advantageous. Linux would already be more popular if it came pre installed, like apple and ms do with their offerings, that way people would not have that barrier to overcome, download, create a bootable iso, partitioning and following the click click installer. But my teenage daughter had no issue with it and she is the most unlikely candidate, she is musical, not technically minded in the least, and she had no trouble, and said linux was much cleaner and easier to use than windows 11, she came from the apple arena, never had anything else until a year ago. In any event I shall retire from here, but will be back to tell you all I told you so. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakini Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 I think you shouldn't have a religion about operating systems. The most important are software and plugins. OS is secondary I started computer music with Linux / Ubuntu studio because I got a laptop and I didn't want to pay for a license for windows. Conclusion: I had to use specific amateur software with fewer features than those I had with Windows. The concern does not come from Linux but from the ecosystem of software and plugins. In the end, it made me waste my time and I switched to windows in order to have more choices regarding software. PS it's been 20 years since I heard that linux is better and that it will replace windows. ==>3% of market share Today for the desktop it still remains a geek thing 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno de Souza Lino Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 2 hours ago, Lord Tim said: Not to mention Linux is also better without naysayers that use ProTools, Cubase, Studio One, Logic... Oh but Linux has even worse naysayers. This whole "my DAW flavor of the week" argumentation is child's play close to the type of naysayers they have. And people reinventing the square wheel. 2 hours ago, Lord Tim said: Cakewalk by Bandlab and Cakewalk Sonar going forward is a Windows application. Rewriting this for Mac was impractical, so rewriting it for Linux which has far less market share doesn't make any kind of sense at all. This is commercial software, so they must take that into consideration. Why isn't there a Linux version of most of the other major DAWs? There's got to be a reason other than "BUT IT'S TOTALLY BETTER THAN WINDOWS AND MAC!!!" don't you think? I feel like some of the more vocal Linux people often pin themselves into a wall with the whole "Linux is better" thing. Linux is different than Windows and has more similarities with MacOS in certain aspects. As per the whole "commercial software cannot thrive in a free software environment" thing, which is perpetrated as a scare tactic by companies like Autodesk when talking about their competitors, the following commercial software have native Linux versions: - Substance Designer - Substance Painter - DaVinci Resolve - Autodesk Maya - Autodesk MudBox - Autodesk MotionBuilder - Arnold - Unreal Engine - Unity3D - Houdini - Modo - RenderMan - V-Ray - Siemens NX As per DAWs, you all know the ones which have native Linux versions. As per the reason why there aren't commercial versions of other DAWs? The reason could range from monetary to lack of knowledge about licensing models (til this day there are people that still believe you cannot sell GPL licensed software and that couldn't be further from the truth) or they believe they'll die a tech support death. The latter can be easily solved by only supporting a specific set of distros (some of the software I mentioned up there are only officially supported on Ubuntu) and people that want it running on something else will have to make it happen and that often ends up being the case. 3 hours ago, Lord Tim said: Cakewalk Next is cross-platform with Mac and would have a better chance of being ported to Linux, but what is the incentive for them doing so other than keeping a very small minority of people happy who are not using the platforms that almost every other commercial DAW does? Without knowing how many people are interested in a Mac version, it's hard to tell. It could be that the amount of interest in a Linux version is actually larger than ones from a Mac version. At least we know people interested in a Mac version want a Sonar version and not this newfangled Bandlab inspired DAW which hasn't shown up yet. 2 hours ago, Lord Tim said: You believe your escargot pies are superior in every way to the other pies. You have one guy who comes in every 2 weeks to buy one of these pies and you talk for hours about how everyone else just doesn't get it and they're totally missing out. One day you decide to take a stand to make people see what they're missing. You move all of your focus onto making these escargot pies. Your one guy who loves them as much as you is overjoyed. The rest of your customers are disappointed by this decision and go to the pie shop down the road to have their beef and pork pies since you're no longer putting in the effort to make the thing they liked from you. You know one day that people will eventually come around and realise how crap those beef and pork pies are. They'll see! One day! The young people will eventually get sick of that stuff and abandon ship and see how much better your escargot pies are! You just wait! This is the kind of corporate tribalism modern companies push and it's no different with "the bakers." Just try mentioning their beloved piece of software has a bug or design flaw and you'll be showered with people telling you workarounds (which are a clear admission of the bug/fault without telling so) or saying this is a problem with you and not the software and you should've been more careful with saying those words here. Of course I'm exaggerating a bit but this kind of behavior also encourages developers to not innovate or even fix bugs. Or they'll act the same way towards feature suggestions, as the creator of Ardour often demonstrates in their forums. 2 hours ago, Lord Tim said: In the meantime, you can't pay rent, any of your staff, and have to reluctantly close your bakery because your now dramatically smaller customer base has gone elsewhere. Those other guys may be on a sinking ship in your opinion but they still have their lights on and their doors open. This doesn't quite work in real life as a comparison because the way smaller companies thrive in the market is filling niches where it wouldn't pay for larger companies to compete on as the profit margins would be too small for them. 1 hour ago, Whinbush said: I just see the big two making mistakes that are driving people over to Linux, I partake in many groups, where music plays a big part, and I was shocked to find they use Linux. I see the door is firmly closed to it here, and I have a feeling there will be a missed opportunity to support a growing crowd instead of a shrinking one. In a sense, you could argue people that use Linux for music making tend to be more creative in their approach because of the many limitations they have in regards to plugin and hardware support and options. That may change depending on how well the industry takes on CLAP, because you can do VST3 plugins for Linux (u-he has Linux versions for pretty much all the products they make) but you're still at Steinberg's mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User 905133 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 56 minutes ago, Whinbush said: . . . but will be back to tell you all I told you so. ahem . . . . just saying: its not a competition. Honestly, I don't understand why you are so adamant--so much so that you need to give a heads up that you will be back to tell everyone who participated in this thread, "I told you so." Again, JMO, people are entitled to their personal preferences for themselves. However, saying you will stop being an aggressive advocate on the Cakewalk Discussion Board for the time being, but you promise to be back to proclaim at a later date to say, "See??? I was right!!!!!!!" sounds like you will be anxiously awaiting that moment should it ever come. 1 hour ago, Whinbush said: I had no idea Corel were invovled in Linux . . . . Hope you enjoyed reading the history. As you probably have heard, those who fail to learn from history are apt to repeat mistakes that others have made [paraphrased]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwal³ Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Whinbush said: I had no idea of the effort to rebuild a codebase deeply embedded into the windows ecosystem /goodluck 3 hours ago, Whinbush said: windows taking up half the resources available for spying and running the most inefficient OS haha why are you even here? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno de Souza Lino Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 4 hours ago, Whinbush said: Overlooking what even young people are seeing, apple crapping out early and now cheaping out too, they are buying windows computers, and when they get their belly full of windows taking up half the resources available for spying and running the most inefficient OS of them all, is it really difficult to see how this will end, it is if you believe in the Titanic that is windows, or that apple of old is the same apple we have now. Not to say Microsoft doesn't collect telemetry data, but claiming this is the reason Windows 10 has performance issues is just fear mongering and incorrect. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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