Chris-J Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 5 hours ago, Byron Dickens said: Perhaps its just my skeptical nature, but I'm always suspicious when someone is that specific. 88ms? Really? You measured it? 88 for sure and not 90 or 82? Especially when they are apparently unaware of such basic steps like looking for troublesome plugins... To answer your question: Yes, I measured it. Approx. 87-89 mS. I’m not guessing or ball parking. It’s a very reasonable question though. As for not looking for troublesome plugins, I don’t claim to be an expert, that’s why I’m here. I just got a new computer and confess to spending way too much time trying to figure out what was wrong with the new computer, and not looking at DAW software as the culprit. My old computer used an Intel i7-4700U, so freezing a few tracks and NOT using CPU intensive plugins was mandatory just to run a project I couldn’t see the forest for the trees. I’ve learned a lot in this thread and I appreciate everyone’s assistance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-J Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 6 hours ago, Starship Krupa said: As you might imagine, this is like waving a red flag at me. 😉 I'll point out that every one of Cakewalk's stock plug-ins, including the ProChannel modules, is a "FREE PLUG-IN." Statistically, most of us try more freeware plug-ins than payware ones, so we're more likely to find issues with freeware ones. Wider is a favorite of many Cakezoids. I like it for extreme widening effects, but usually prefer JST/Boz Sidewidener (once magware, now freeware) or Ozsoft Xpander for more subtle effects. Anything you find in the "Favorite Freeware" threads is vetted to some degree by Cakewalk users. Cakewalk itself is a testament to the quality level of today's freeware. It's become more stable, faster, and compatible under the freeware license than it was when it was payware. Things have changed in the past 10 years: so many larger companies have begun issuing freeware as a loss-leader promotion. MeldaProduction was one of the innovators, with their highly-regarded MFreeFX bundle. With the old picture of freeware being the product of solo hobbyists working in their spare time is no longer accurate. Wider is a loss-leader product of Polyverse, who have a line of decidedly non-free plug-ins. As a loss-leader, presumably intended to pique interest in the company's for-pay efforts, one would hope they have incentive to make sure the thing worked. Anyway, I prefer to say that it's a conflict with a plug-in. This avoids the dreaded finger-pointing/perception of defensiveness. And, bottom line, if there is a problem with a plug-in (especially with one as popular as Wider, @John Vere 😛), the Cakewalk developers should be informed that there is an issue. Same with the plug-in developers. Let 'em know? If a plug-in doesn't play nice with Cakewalk, neither Cakewalk nor the plug-in is "at fault," even though thousands of other plug-ins work just fine with Cakewalk and the plug-in in questions works just fine in other hosts (usually REAPER 😄). Compatibility is a 2-way street, and the fact is, both the host and the plug-in can be 100% compliant with the VST3 spec and still not play nice with each other. Fortunately, it's easy for developers to test with Cakewalk: all you need is a Windows system and an internet connection to get it. Why should Wider work for so many others, but not John? I have no idea. I've seen a tiny number of plug-in conflicts not with the host, but with another plug-in. Sometimes they don't like being in the same rack or even project with each other. I see that situation as being hopeless, because how do you get 3 different developers to sort out something like that? BTW, regarding payware vs. freeware, has anyone mentioned the possibility that there's an unregistered plug-in in this project? That's a common feature of plug-in demos: before the product is registered, it will issue silence or hiss at various intervals. The gap or noise usually lasts for at least a second, not as brief as 88mS, though. Thanks, lots of food for thought here. Several months ago I did have an obvious problem with a Freeware plugin called “EpicPlate”. I very quickly deleted it from my computer. As for the question, do I have an unregistered plugin? I don’t think so, but I will verify. Mistakes can happen! Another test I will run later on today is Exporting another project with different plugins in the Master Bus. The current project, which is displaying this issue, does not have a large quantity of Plugins in it’s Master Bus. Thanks, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-J Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 12 hours ago, bitflipper said: You might have a plugin running in demo mode. Since the 88ms dropout affects the entire mix, start with the plugins on your master bus. Even if a plugin is bypassed it remains in the circuit and still has an effect on the signal passing through it. Thanks for the info! I don’t think I have plugin in Demo mode, but I will verify this. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vere Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 @Starship KrupaAs I said it was just one track and further investigation was it was right at a point of a split in the track. which was a copy paste of the Harmony track which was also abused by me with Melodyne. I have learned that if you want problems then fill a project with a zillion edits and clips. The solution I find is to export the tracks as 48/32 stems. Then delete the mess and drag the nice fresh track back and now everything is fine. So it was not Wider to blame per say, it was a combination of things that created the dropout or glitch. I have been using Wider for over a year and it’s actually one I trust. This was the first time it was accused of having issues by me. I use a lot of plug ins I got for free and what you say about many of them come from very reputable developers. I always sign up for newsletters and through that have scored many great upgrades and deals. I’ll edit my other post so as not to scare anyone away from Wider. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vere Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 I just thought of something that I didn’t see mentioned yet. Run Resplendence Latency Monitor and see what is going on. It is a laptop I do believe. They can be more problematic https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-J Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 4 hours ago, John Vere said: I just thought of something that I didn’t see mentioned yet. Run Resplendence Latency Monitor and see what is going on. It is a laptop I do believe. They can be more problematic https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon Thanks John, I will try this out. You are correct, it is actually a Gaming Laptop made by Dell. I have uninstalled all the Alienware software the laptop shipped with and have ensured that “Gaming Mode” is OFF. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettelus Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 I might have missed this being mentioned already, but repeatable glitches like that are very common to plugins that have a DEMO mode (or a "free" variant of a paid plugin). Does anything in your master FX chain fall into that category? I agree this seems more a rogue plugin issue than a system issue. Another thing to be mindful of is plugins that have look-ahead associated with them and that there is enough buffer to accommodate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 i updated my laptop and forgot to re-apply my CA-2 license and was getting blanks and clicks. until i opened the settings and got the message about the license and that the audio would be disrupted periodically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-J Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 7 hours ago, John Vere said: I just thought of something that I didn’t see mentioned yet. Run Resplendence Latency Monitor and see what is going on. It is a laptop I do believe. They can be more problematic https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon I‘ve ran latency, and one of the latency meters goes into dark red. The worst driver is Wdf01000.sys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-J Posted March 7, 2023 Author Share Posted March 7, 2023 2 hours ago, mettelus said: I might have missed this being mentioned already, but repeatable glitches like that are very common to plugins that have a DEMO mode (or a "free" variant of a paid plugin). Does anything in your master FX chain fall into that category? I agree this seems more a rogue plugin issue than a system issue. Another thing to be mindful of is plugins that have look-ahead associated with them and that there is enough buffer to accommodate that. Thanks for the tip. I checked, I don’t have any plugins in Demo Mode. Plus I would think that Demo Mode would drop audio out for a full second or two? Not 88 mS. I will try three other things. First: I have Klanghelm’s “VUMT” meter plugin on my computer and their “VUMT Deluxe” meter plugin installed in the Master Bus. I’ve uninstalled “VUMT” from my computer as I really don’t need it if I have “VUMT Deluxe”. Plus I’ve deleted VUMT Deluxe from the Master Bus as I don’t need it to Export. Second: I have a plugin called Lowtility, but I’m only using it as a High Pass filter so I replaced with the EQ in Pro Channel. Third: I have deleted a plugin called Panipulate, which I only use to listen to the mix in Mono. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-J Posted March 7, 2023 Author Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Glenn Stanton said: i updated my laptop and forgot to re-apply my CA-2 license and was getting blanks and clicks. until i opened the settings and got the message about the license and that the audio would be disrupted periodically. Weird, I don’t see CA-2 in my list of Compressors. Isn’t that included in Cakewalk By BandLab? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-J Posted March 7, 2023 Author Share Posted March 7, 2023 I suspect there is a plugin conflict between two plugins in the Master Buss. The problem project has Waves SSL Compressor and PlugIn Alliance’s MAAG-4 EQ in the Master Buss. I’m exporting another project which has Waves SSL Comp but does NOT have MAAG-4 EQ in the Master Bus This project does not have drop-outs when it exports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 22 minutes ago, Chris-J said: Weird, I don’t see CA-2 in my list of Compressors. Isn’t that included in Cakewalk By BandLab? It's included as a ProChannel module. There's a VST version as well that will work in any VST host. It was well received when it came out and is still held in high regard even though you can no longer buy the VST version. It was included with the Platinum bundle, and at one point, Cakewalk, Inc. ran a limited time offer of a free license to anyone who registered with the company. The usual way to build buzz and get people on the mailing list for offers, I guess. Although I had not used SONAR in many years, I snagged a license because, hey, free. Now if I want it, I just use the ProChannel version. We hold out a sliver of hope that someday, BandLab will again offer it for sale or bundled with Cakewalk, along with the Linear Phase EQ and Multiband Compressor. They would be really nice to have in Cakewalk. The bundled DXi plug-ins are looking pretty tiny and dated. 10 minutes ago, Chris-J said: The problem project has Waves SSL Compressor and PlugIn Alliance’s MAAG-4 EQ in the Master Buss. I’m exporting another project which has Waves SSL Comp but does NOT have MAAG-4 EQ in the Master Bus This project does not have drop-outs when it exports. Good shootin'. Ugh, a 3-way conflict. It's like the ending of The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly. The three principal characters all facing each other down. Still, if you can narrow it down to that, get it reproducible in another project that has SSL Compressor and MAAG-4, I'm sure all interested parties would like to have a .CWB file showing the problem. BandLab and Waves, at least. Waves is one of the more staunch supporters of Cakewalk compatibility. Not as sure about PA, although I've never had an issue with their products in Cakewalk (save for the jank't VST3 preset listing, which is definitely Cakewalk's problem). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vere Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 5 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said: It's included as a ProChannel module. I'm pretty sure the CA 2A , both the VST and pro Channel module were only included with Sonar. But the PC 2A Leveler is identical in all respects other than it does not have side chaining. This is why the OP can't find the CA 2A if they never used Sonar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scook Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 The original PC-2A was a PC only module sold separately. The CA-2A added sidechain, AU and VST2/3 formats for Windows/MAC. This too was sold separately. The PC-2A was added to CbB 2021.04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) I lose track of the CA/PC-2A permutations due to being one of the (few) people running around here who had the full VST/PC version but not SONAR itself. So from the start with CbB, I always had the PC module, way before it started to be included. I also have the installer for Bark of Dog 1, which lets you install a PC module version. Bummer that development of 3rd-party PC modules stopped with the Gibson sale. Was there something about licensing, or was it just loss of interest on the part of the 3rd-party developers? Edited March 7, 2023 by Starship Krupa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vere Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) 16 hours ago, Chris-J said: I‘ve ran latency, and one of the latency meters goes into dark red. The worst driver is Wdf01000.sys This thread has gotten too long so I missed this which is pretty important info. You need to deal with this. You can’t run any DAW when that is red. It may or may not be at the root of the problem but overall to use a computer for music it needs to run clean an green. I believe you said this is a Dell laptop. If it is this could be issues in the BIOS as I have personal experience about 8 years ago with similar issues. Dell wouldn’t deal with it. We sent it back and they said it wasn’t broken? $1,500 no good for audio. Still have it and it’s fine for all else. Bought a $600 Acer that never had issues with Audio once bloat ware was removed. Edited March 7, 2023 by John Vere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvideo Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 That Wdf01000.sys is a "driver framework", so it could be used by any non-class-compliant device on your computer. Since it is a "gaming" computer, there may be a device built in that uses a driver tuned to gaming. Another possibility is that your anti-malware software has provided some alternate or stacked drivers, e.g. for keyboard and mouse (mine does), though wdf01000.sys is unlikely from anti-malware software. So mainly have a look at the driver stack for keyboard and mouse. Control panel -> device manager -> Keyboards (or) Mice and other pointing devices (double click or right click) -> properties -> Driver -> Driver Details and see if wdf01000.sys is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scook Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-J Posted March 7, 2023 Author Share Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) On 3/6/2023 at 8:15 PM, John Vere said: I'm pretty sure the CA 2A , both the VST and pro Channel module were only included with Sonar. But the PC 2A Leveler is identical in all respects other than it does not have side chaining. This is why the OP can't find the CA 2A if they never used Sonar. Ah-ha! I do have the PC2A Compressor in Pro Channel and it works quite well! One of my favourites for electric guitars. Edited March 9, 2023 by Chris-J typos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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