Issue with Key+ on midi tracks

[jono grant]

Hi, just trying to use the "Key+" feature on a midi track in Cakewalk.

I'm just transposing for a trumpet part. So everything up two semitones.

If I use the Key+ feature, it's supposed to move the notes AND the key signature in the direction and amount I have set. 

But it's doing this: I set "key +" to +2 semi-tones. It raises the notes but LOWERS the key signature! 

I don't believe it's supposed to do that... very annoying!  

Could it be some setting I have going on?

Thanks

jono

[User 905133]

1 hour ago, jono grant said:

I'm just transposing for a trumpet part. So everything up two semitones.

If I use the Key+ feature, it's supposed to move the notes AND the key signature in the direction and amount I have set. 

But it's doing this: I set "key +" to +2 semi-tones. It raises the notes but LOWERS the key signature! 

I don't believe it's supposed to do that... very annoying!  

The transpose function and the key signature are separate things.  Key signature relates to which notes are sharp and flat. Transpose relates to note pitches and how they look on a staff.  There are threads where this is discussed complete with screen shots if I recall correctly.  Unfortunately, it is too late in the day for me to look. 

Transposing notes in a song to change the pitches regardless of the instrument is different than transposing notes so instruments of different keys will sound the same. 

Sorry. It is late and I know that explanation is not as good as it can be, but I hope it points you in the right direction.

Edited February 26, 2023 by User 905133

[jimlynch22]

what is the Key+ feature?

[sjoens]

See Q:

It transposes the track's key audibly but not physically in PRV.

Adjusts octaves with mouse wheel. Adjusts semitones with shift+mouse wheel.

2x click to reset -0-.

Edited February 27, 2023 by sjoens

[User 905133]

On 2/26/2023 at 12:00 AM, User 905133 said:

The transpose function and the key signature are separate things.  Key signature relates to which notes are sharp and flat. Transpose relates to note pitches and how they look on a staff.  There are threads where this is discussed complete with screen shots if I recall correctly.  Unfortunately, it is too late in the day for me to look. 

I looked and found a number of older threads that address transposition, key signature, etc. However, none of them directly address the issue you raised.

On 2/26/2023 at 12:00 AM, User 905133 said:

Transposing notes in a song to change the pitches regardless of the instrument is different than transposing notes so instruments of different keys will sound the same. 

The short answer is: (a) transposing notes up 2 half-steps in a song to change their pitches is one thing; (b) transposing to and from instruments that read music in different keys (e.g., a C instrument and a Bb) is different.

[msmcleod]

So a trumpet in Bb, means when you play a C on it a Bb comes out.

If you're using a VSTi, then obviously everything is non-transposed so...

So to get the notes right, you need to:
-  Transpose the MIDI up 2 semitones,  so all Bb's look like C's in the PRV / Staff View.

Then to get it note sounding at the right pitch:
-  Use Key +/-  down 2 semitones.

 

[sjoens]

1 hour ago, msmcleod said:

so all Bb's look like C's

I thought it was CbB. 

[jono grant]

On 2/27/2023 at 12:24 PM, msmcleod said:

So a trumpet in Bb, means when you play a C on it a Bb comes out.

If you're using a VSTi, then obviously everything is non-transposed so...

So to get the notes right, you need to:
-  Transpose the MIDI up 2 semitones,  so all Bb's look like C's in the PRV / Staff View.

Then to get it note sounding at the right pitch:
-  Use Key +/-  down 2 semitones.

 

This was helpful BUT the full answer is this: Yes, you do have to raise the pitches to the transposition you want manually (Select the notes and transpose by semitones) in this case +2 semitones as it's a Bb instrument. 

Then when you change the "key+" button in the opposite direction (-2 semitones) The notes will sound like the concert notation AND the key signatures will be changed to the new transposed key. (Such a backwards way! lol) Anyhow, that works. 

I swear cakewalk used to do this in one step with only the key+ button! Probably back in Sonar 7 though! lol  (been using it for decades and feel old...)

As long as it works though...

Thanks

JG