Starise

I remember that discussion on Overture. I think $$ was a consideration then for sure. I have a hard time believing that beats/live performance are the things that seem to be getting all of the attention as evidenced by SO5's new performance page, though they also added notation. Presonus must think they are getting reliable stats from somewhere. Looks like they sort of accommodated both groups. Depending on what you do you either liked it or not. Educated notation reading musicians are not going away. You won't go to college and have the music professor say, " Hey we decided to throw out music notation from now on". The fact that CbB is still free and two years out still aren't charging up for anything additional is sending some kind of a message. I just can't figure out what it is?? In that respect any direction they take is a big question mark. The only reason to offer good software free is usually to eliminate or weaken the competition so far as I can tell. Sort of like the way large chain stores open up and offer lower prices than the stores down the road who eventually go out of business. The DAW market is different though. I don't see the key players going out of business. Their bottom lines might be hurting some because I have heard some users of DAW sofware X deciding to stop paying and cross over to CbB. Not sure how often this happens. If I invest 2 or 3K in a rig I'm not going to let a 299.00 software purchase hold me back. If I like brand X I'll buy it. If the free one is no loss I'll use it instead. Most for $$ studios have several DAWs.

I have pointed people to CbB in the past who were composers. Inevitably they always ask why the notation isn't more complete. I'm not sure how large their group is...but some of them love Musescore because it's free as a replacement for Sibleus or Dorico. If you begin to have them recommending a program to one another, then that says something. TBH The integration in SO5 is still evolving. Not perfect yet. Not bad though, especially for people like me who aren't extremely particular so long as musicians can read it.

Not sure about Sphere specifically. I will be very surprised if you can't install the extra content at the location of your choice same as SO5 software. I can tell you that Sphere will need an internet connection and it needs to dial in every 3 days. This isn't acceptable for some users. Presonus has a shell that allows you to use their plugins in other DAWS, This is presumably so that you can purchase only the plugins...I don't think they were just being nice. Stranger things have happened. This is a free download on their site to registered Presonus users. I have used the Fat Channel in CbB with no issues.The synths don't work in anything else so far as I know. Neither do the loops. They are not Rex or Acid...proprietary. Presence XT is just a another rompler...nothing astounding there. The orchestral sounds sit at a mid point in quality. They aren't going to sound like Spitfire but I think they are slightly better than some of the other beginner sound sets. Pretty convincing in the right kind of a mix. You could import midi from Cakewalk to Notion and use the sounds that way. For me going from SO5 to Notion works best since those soundsets aren't as good in Notion. I have no real reason for doing that. The Notion sounds are just *ok*

When you say large how large is large? When you say cinematic I'm guessing heavy mixes ( on a computer) . By heavy mixes I mean 100+ tracks ( or more) + video. Some composers offload some of that weight to another server. Not all DAW combinations lend themselves well to those kinds of mixes. TBH I have never had a mix that large on CbB. The software and platform are important as well. Recently I read one person who mixes cinematic say that Studio One wasn't pulling the big mixes good enough for him. Nothing against CbB, but I wouldn't look at it for this kind of thing. Cubase yes. I know of composers over on other forums who are effectively using Reaper and Ableton for this. My theory on Ableton is the piano roll is one of the easiest to read and navigate. That comes in handy on those large mixes. Studio One's piano roll is one of the worst IMO.Cakewalk is pretty decent. I would be interested to hear if anyone has a huge mix and is confident with CbB in this capacity. I would be very leary of resting a huge mix on something not proven in that capacity. If it were me, I would have two computers. One for video editing and one for audio work. ..but that's me. I think it makes sense to keep them separate. 8K is around the corner. Some people here do this as a livelihood. Those who do it full time fully expect to make a large investment in both hardware and software. High end cpu, 128 gb of ram (or likely more), backup protected. BBCSO is 600gb. VSL and East West are similar if you get all of the instruments. You simply should not attempt it on anything less than the best. Not the best you can afford. The best. There's a difference. If you can't afford it, don't try it.

What Max said ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Glad to see you made it back ok........I was beginning to wonder. Hope all is well down there with whatever happened.

Yeah, there's that garage sale dream I keep having where I stumble into a garage toward the end of the day and there's this woman there looking sad wondering what to do with all the stuff she hasn't sold that day. Over in the corner there's this pile of metal boxes all dusty. She explains that it belonged to her deceased husband who once had a recording studio. She is moving next week and she really needs to get rid of everything. She says she will take any good offers on "those boxes" over in the corner. I mosey on over there trying to look bored to look at the boxes. I only have 100 bucks in my wallet. I offer it to her and she looks relieved saying she accepts asking me when I can come and take it all away. It ends up being a pile of vintage gear that most engineers would give their right arm for.......man what a dream that was. So now I can put all of that in my studio and they might even feature me on the cover of a well known recording magazine. People will look at that and say wow!! that dude has quite a load of gear there ( I know dream on). It was a nice dream

While I whole heartedly agree with 99.99 % of what you said, I would only add that I believe many plugins are very accurate representations of actual hardware units. While not many people can afford 5K for a compressor or a channel strip we can afford to buy something that is so close many wouldn't know for MUCH less. I don't claim to be extremely knowledgeable about dedcated 1960's-1970's hardware since it wasn't ever a part of my reality, so maybe I'm missing something. I have heard some pretty good mixes using mimicked hardware in software though. My software Korg M-1 sounds exactly like my hardware M-1 did....only at the time they wanted 100.00 each for all of the cards for it which were included in the software version. No intention to start a war here. I really wish I could get some of that expensive gear Lots of hobbyists eventually at the least end up with some kind of a channel strip if using mics is a high priority. I don't see it as a necessity though given the quality of today's pre amps.

I jumped right into that one. Actually this is pretty tame.

Magix offerings can be somewhat confusing to anyone who doesn't have any of their products. There are several versions of Vegas. If you aren't familiar I suggest you look at what the different versions offer. The pro version is the one that accepts the most formats. I have Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 16. If you upgrade to Pro 17 from 16 you get the update to version 18 in the deal HERE. Since I don't have PRO my price is probably higher than someone who already has PRO 16.

There might be people here who didn't see this on May 19th right? But yeah, Larry is tough like that. And yes, he would not have hesitated....... I seen it because I just got this months issue of MusicTech and it was one of the freebs on the CD. I'm not going to go three pages in before I post a deal.....two maybe

I think if you stay in this you'll eventually have both. At least I seen Fabfilter Pro-Q as the last EQ I would ever need......not that I wouldn't try another one. Not sure how far along you are in your mixing hobby. At the very beginning you're still learning the basic concepts. You can make pretty good mixes using basic plugins. I've been at it awhile and I still have a lot to learn. I think maybe you could use the basic CbB plugins in the beginning to get a good understanding of EQ frequencies. IOW where your instruments generally sit. What many beginners don't realize is that EQ is often more subtractive than additive. Often if gain is needed it is very small. The CbB EQ can be expanded and is actually a pretty nice EQ in every sense of the word. Most good mixes are only EQ, proper gain staging and maybe some compression per channel. Most masters are similar only your looking at the whole mix and trying to get the mix to the correct levels without going too far using a limiter. You and your ears are more important than the plug in. Many of the best mixing techniques you won't ever learn using automated or pre set chains. In order to really learn you need to know WHY and in what context. What is the goal? In this respect Ozone or IK Multimedia TRacks can be very educational. Look at an Ozone preset. What are they doing to achieve that result? Look at how each module is set. Cakewalk has chains too. Simply click the arrows on a module in the pro channel and you will see a drop down list. Looking at these chains can be very educational. Once you know how all of that works you can build your own chains using any plugin you desire or use pre made ones. I have Ozone 7 all the way through Ozone 9 advanced still on my computer. If anything I think that program has made too many people complacent about getting more involved in a mix. Yes it is effective, but if all you ever do is use a preset you might as well hire one of those online mastering services and save yourself some time and money. Fabfilter is just a more fully featured set of the most used plugins. Pro-Q3 has a way to solo each freq. band. You can choose to make the band "dynamic" in that it will cut that band by a certain amount depending on the material and how you set it, so it's really similar to built in multi band compressor. You can take any frequency and put it where you want it in the stereo or M/S field. So it basically can pan too. Ozone also has a dynamic EQ as does Melda. Neutron isn't a new Idea. Voxengo and others have something similar that can look at other EQ in different tracks and make a comparative analysis. Basically a smart EQ that can share data across channels. I have Neutron but I tended to like simply soloing tracks together and manually EQing that way. You might not agree with Neutron's decisions. Remember, it's more about those two things on either side of your head The worst thing you can do is to think that any plugin will make you sound better. In the end, only you and your mixing skill will make you sound better. The higher end plugins are just icing on the cake.

Nice work. My videos don't look that nice. Mainly because I'm in some of them. I've been watching this and feeling guilty because I have pulled my institutional card to buy software already. It wasn't Presonus software. It was recording software though. I only did it once about 5 years ago. The fine print didn't expressly say I had to be educating in the institution so I looked at it like a benny at the time. Didn't really consider that it might have been expressly wanting me to be a music teacher. I have led music at churches too but never considered that as a way to gain a discount. I looked at it similar to a teacher discount at Staples or a military discount if you were in the military. I simply made a copy of my card and sent it to them for the discount. I don't honestly even remember what software it was * seriously*. There was never a question to me as to if I were directly educating students. I would imagine that most educational institutions programs would use a multi user license because there are students. My institution uses Logic and Pro Tools. They might use others I'm not aware of. Now that I've reflected on it I guess I personally seen their real intent was to snag music educators but I think they should make that more clear in their offers. My offer never mentioned it. Nowadays I just keep upgrading the programs I like and I pay those prices just like anyone else. It's only a few more bucks and I know I'm legit. If you wanted to do it though that's entirely up to you and I'm not going to fault you for it. I don't see it the same a pirating software or even close.

This discussion is becoming very *****. * decides to split about now*

I lean in this direction too thinking optimistically. A lot of this probably depends on the state of the future markets IMHO. The C virus caused a lot of trade manufacturing issues. Not sure if things will be stable later. Anything could rock the boat, a typhoon hitting a factory could do it. SSDs were scarce or pricey there for awhile due to some bad circumstances. They have since started to come down in price. Right now in my area we only have to deal with the West Nile Virus, COVID-19, the spotted lantern fly invasion, weather modification, chem trails, stinging jelly fish etc......I only think about it if I watch the news . Any other time it's a beautiful day. How much any of this affects things like component manufacturing might be negligible. People need money to buy the stuff though. If people aren't working they can't buy. If they can't buy what will that do to prices? If you lower prices while expenses go up you don't make any money. They might minimize their profit margins some. Might take a little longer to see the next cpu. Everything has a way of balancing out. Thunderbolt doesn't seem to be a widespread consumer demand. Might be seen as a feature for a minority similar to firewire. Only Mac photographers and some studio musicians were using FW. Something like the i9-9900K would future proof you for awhile. There are guys collecting old computers and running the old software on them. I won't be one of those. On the old CW forum we had guys still running some old software to make music. Like ATARI configurations lol.

I'm certainly not past considering a Ryzen build. One of the main selling points for the i-9 9900K is the 95 watts. Thunderbolt tech is purchased from Intel isn't it? I could be wrong. Design originated with Apple, somehow crossed over to Intel...possibly because Apple was/is using Intel. Moving to ARM. If true, this means AMD has to license TB2&3 from Intel. I have seen TB MOBOs for Ryzen builds. Not sure how well they are working with TB audio interfaces or how much those MOBOs cost. There's always a lot of homework to do before a build ( at least for me there is).

Get it HERE. For anyone who has Black Hole, can you tell me how this compares to that?

Hmmmmm........CCS Cake capable sugar? DCC? Yep makes sense. Remember when that was a Pentium 2 and 2gb of ram?

I'm baking a cake but I can't call it a cake until it's a cake, so I have to say I'm making a "pre-cake" ? It's all the sum of the hardware/software. If I'm building a DAW, I'm building a digital audio workstation. Nuff said. Have a good day! My direction on my next build will be making sure the MOBO is Thunderbolt compatible with Presonus Quantum and similar thunderbolt interfaces. An interface is part of a DAW. Just letting you know.

I think the tools are important. I also agree. She had a really cool arpeggio thing going on with a harp that sounded real. The reverbs were just the right kind of slathery. Rhythms seem to be easy in that DAW since it has those tools that lend themselves well to it IMHO. Yes I'm sure I could do it in CbB ( or any other DAW) with the right workflow. I don't have her way of making music though, so yeah....my tunes wouldn't sound like her tunes. The Beatles were good looking too ( to girls...and maybe a few others) and I think they could have recorded on a victorola and done well I think more than anything, I was curious how the DAW works in more detail. If you can add elements to a tempo and have it sound organic, I think that's a big plus......but I don't really know because I haven't used it.

I was eyeing the guitar and harmonica on that list. Unfortunately was having issues playing the sound file examples which are linked to Sound Cloud. I found a guy on YouTube demoing the harmonica but he didn't know how to make it sound like a harmonica. For 29.00 quid it might be worth a gamble. I have harmonicas so I guess I should just put one in my mouth and blow on it instead. I personally have drums out the wazoo and was looking at EZ drummer as a quick compo tool but they won't put it on sale. I'm not a drummer and have trouble walking and chewing gum at the same time. The SONiVOX set looks like just the samples....not sure. The site isn't especially helpful. I appreciate those who have confirmed at least some of the libs are decent.

Under a grand can theoretically get you into a high end DAW at these prices if you build it yourself. This just doesn't happen in the Mac world. Not picking on Mac, just saying why I'm not a Mac guy. I have an old DAW that was laying around since I built my last one. I could remove the MOBO from the silent case add some SSDs, memory an OS and be good to go. Can't justify it more than admitting it's just PC ( GAS) at this point. If I thought prices were going to rise in the future though I would be tempted to make a run at this or similar. Maybe buy a part at a time until I eventually had the whole shebang. The memory and the graphics card would influence the price. I could still keep it close to that number I think.

I had no idea there was a shakeup at SONiVOX???? Thanks for that info. Jason looks like a real knowledgeable dude who probably helped to create a bunch of their libraries ( from looking at his info). I have a bunch of SONiVOX orchestral libraries which I was impressed with for the price and functionality. I'll admit I was wondering why their web page wasn't connecting to the audio examples for that last deal I posted. They need to update their web page at the very least. I found some examples on YouTube. Back to Reason- There's a person I know who is getting HUGE play counts on SC ( compared to most there) and she uses Reason as her main DAW. She makes decent music in her genre. I guess that part had me slightly curious. In the end it probably has more to do with talent than her DAW. I have wondered if the DAW gave her some kind of an edge though.

Glad you found something that worked for you. Many of the plugins in MX9 load into CbB. The synths do too and they have a decent line up of those including a sampler. Not many DAWs allow cross pollination like that including CbB. Some of the stuff is dated but not all of it. Not trying to sell their vocoder as the only reason to buy it, but for a DAW that is in the 100.00 range as compared to many others that start at 399.00 it isn't too shabby. Reminds me of the way Platinum once came all loaded up with additional programs. It's a lot for the $$ IMHO. This video was helpful to me for Vocalizer Pro. It is a little "different" than traditional vocoders. but to me that's the beauty of the plug in.

Intel Core i9 Coffee Lake 8-core , 3.6 GHZ, 5 GHZ OC. 449.99 LGA 1151 95 w desktop processor. I don't think this is a bad price for these right now. If you have a MOBO with 1151 this might be a decent upgrade. ASRock MOBOs are in the 175.00 range.