User 905133

Did some quick tests. SM2 standalone, *.dll, and *.vst3 all seem to work. Tested the dll and vst3 in two hosts including Cakewalk. Since the vst3 is new, I did a VST scan to get it registered in Cakewalk.

Uh oh. What do you mean by "Nothing works any more . . . ?" Are you saying just the CM edition doesn't work or the update trashes other versions? ?

Did someone say something about confusion? Well here's something else to consider--from the manual, for those who have access to it ? : I have not made the time to try reconstructing any Syntronik 1 presets into the Syntronik 2 format (nor do I intend to**), but this quote from section 5.1.1 – "The Edit Panel and Legacy Syntronik 1 Preset" seems to suggest to me that it can be done. I mean, if the Wave Sets used in SYN presets can be loaded into new SYN2 presets, why wouldn't it be possible? **Maybe there's still a chance IK will recompile the SYN presets so they work as SYN2 presets? But maybe that is in the plans for Syntronik 2.5 or 3 along with additional edit panels, etc.? NOTE: Beyond the actual quote, this is all pure speculation on my part. JMO: Nothing here should be used to decide whether or not participation in SYN2GB meets anyone's current needs. As for me, I am still on the fence: Impulsively, the new Instruments are saying, "GO FOR IT! You know you really want us!!!!" On the other hand . . . . ?

See:

I almost posted Don't Worry, Kyoko (Mummy's Only Looking for a Hand in the Snow) but decided I didn't dare! This is much more pleasant to listen to

If a preset doesn't share sound files/samples/etc it should be more than fine. And yes, some of us here are pushing for ToneNET for every logical product outside of AmpliTube 5. I'm with you on that front, 100%. TY

BTW, a few weeks ago I started creating expanded presets to take advantage of these new features (just a few test presets-in-progress so far). That's why I have been optimistic about the potential for Syntronik 2. I had been planning on finding a way to share them. More recently, though I have been kind of hoping IK creates a community for sharing Syntronik 2 presets like they have with their ToneNet community sharing system for Amplitube 5 presets. But, if IK isn't interested, to me that doesn't mean that other SYN2 users couldn't share presets elsewhere. Does anyone know if (or have thought on whether or not) that would violate the IK agreement?

If the SYN2GB gets extended and reaches 33 and I jump in, maybe when its over I can try to sell the SE version I bought at the end of February to someone who didn't get all 33 for the price of one. ? But if it doesn't go to all 33, maybe I can sell the TS3.5 I picked up a few weeks ago just to get Syntronik 2 [Full]. ? Or if it only goes to 11, I could just keep TS3.5 and get the 11 new ones I don't have and end up paying what Syntronik 2 MAX would have cost!!!!! Of course there's always the option of looking at how my retirement funds have tumbled this year and decide I already spent too much trying to distract myself from the losses. Thank goodness IK gives me all these options!!!! Oh yeah. I forgot. Maybe "The Markets" will recover by the time TS5.0 MAX comes out which might include even more instruments, improvements to the synth engine (including more editable parameters), and possibly Syntronik 2.5 or 3.0. ? Warning for the humor-impaired: I believe that to survive these "troubled times," I need to take things with a dash of perspective which for me includes attempts at humor. So, even though I reference IK, it is intentioned as lighthearted and good-natured humor. In other words: I am not bashing anyone. Seriously, though, these are indeed my options with regard to the SYN2GB.

@Promidi Good explanation for using the default locations. I hope I was clear that in my case I was using non-default locations. At one point I had everything IK on the my default 500 GB SSD C;\ drive, but I got tired of spending tons of time downloading the files and installing them with the standard/product manager only to have the process just stop since I had run out of room. BTW, maybe you can help with something I have wondered about: what's in the *.pak files v. the *.st3i and *.st4i files?

I don't have any of the new instruments such as Syner-V, but I did have some issues of sounds not being found along the way when installing earlier SYN2_xxxx instruments. I haven't sorted out it all out yet (esp., how IK installs to and uses different paths), but with the SYN2s I definitely had errors like that at first--until I sorted out installation paths. At least one of the FAQ sheets talks about paths for the *.st3i and *.st4i sound content. That might be helpful; not sure since the "same" (similar) problem can have different causes for different users. There is some good discussion on the IK Forum; not sure if anyone else addresses the missing resource issue. There's always the option of opening a dialog with IK support. I am not an IK software expert by any means, but you might want to look at the paths for the Syntronik 2 resources and make sure they are listed properly in the Settings > Library Section. We can have multiple paths listed and I have my SYN / *.st3i files in one place and my SYN2 / *.st4i files on a dedicated 250 GB SSD. My E Drive is one of those Seagate External 6 TB Drives I got several years ago (not unlike some of the 8 TB ones mentioned in the "Deals" sub forum). Much slower access/loading than from the SSD drive, but plenty of room for my *.st3i files. I installed my SYN2s with Syntronik 2 open. The rescan (rebuilding database) happened automatically, but I have seen comments that sometimes under some circumstances people need to refresh something manually. Again, my problem and solution might not apply to your circumstances, but maybe some of my experiences will be helpful. If not, there's IK's support process. FYI: I suspect that at least some of the SYN2 presets use SYN resources. So I temporarily removed my E\: . . . \ST3 path from the library and got this with a Generation 2 preset: As in your case, some SYN2 presets load just fine with the missing ST3 path; some don't. Hope this helps.

Yup there are some dedicated users and moderators there who are helpful.

Yup!! This is a major selling point for me--the wave sets and the ability to layer up to 4 of them for some really lush sounds! BTW, I have started to install all of the SYN2 Instruments from my recently acquired Syntronik 2 [Full] purchase. Doing the installations one-by-one, double checking number of the Generation 1 presets I counted before, counting the number of Generation 2 presets and comparing the number with what I counted before (when I just had CS and/or SE installed), and counting or recounting the number of wavesets in the browser for each instrument. Since IK doesn't have or doesn't make available those details (based on the best available information I have), my plan is to share the information in case its useful to other IK users. Oh yeah, some users in the IK forum have also been sharing number counts, so my plan at the moment is to double check my numbers. I listened to all the Jordan Rudess videos for the 11 new instruments; still not sure I will buy in to the SYN2GB or which ones I might be interested in. I have the Cherry Audio Oberheim Instrument and the SEM modules for VM, so not sure about the M-12 or Obie One. I will have to compare CPU usages though. Back in the 80s I audited a class where I worked so I could spend a semester with the Synclavier, so the Syner-V looked interesting. I hope others who have jumped in on the SYN2GB share their impressions--strengths, weaknesses, etc. Of course its very personal. If someone likes Yamaha-style FM, they might like the GS-V.

I see that the Transfer Button (under My Products > Serials/Licenses) goes to a FAQ which states "Please note that not all software is transferable. Items received for free via a promotion are not transferable. Purchases made inside of the Custom Shop using Gear Credits are not transferable to another user or account." Do you know (or have an idea) what would happen if someone bought a transfer token and tried to transfer an item that was purchased in the Custom Shop using Gear Credits? I have several things that I "bought" that I don't use that I might want to sell so I can get some of those snazzy, new-fangled Syntronik 2 Instruments. Thanks.

Are you referencing the FAQ I linked to in my post or a different FAQ? If you mean the one I linked, I did not see any reference to "Wave Sets" being mentioned. Is it possible that by "Wave Sets" you mean the st3i and st4i files? Hmmmmm. I suppose if st3i and st4i files contain what I know of as samples, multisamples, and presets, then maybe "Wave Sets" = "st3i and st4i files?" If so, does IK have a glossary of the terms and phrases it uses? I only know of "Wave Sets" from seeing that section in Syntronik 2 and I have never looked into the structure and use of st3i and st4i files. Is there a document that goes into those details?

@Peter - IK Multimedia Are you saying that IK lacks the ability to upgrade the presets? I have seen other companies who have recompiled samples, multisamples, and presets to make them work in newer versions of their synths. I totally get that IK chose not upgrade the presets from the start, but I hope you can see that by IK saying CS and SE host previously purchased synths while Full and MAX upgrade previously purchased synths, consumers may have been led to believe by the website that previously purchased presets packaged with the synths would be upgraded, (not just the synth engine). In case its not clear, saying that "Because v1 presets don't and cannot contain the Wave Sets that are mentioned in the FAQ so it would be literally impossible to edit them in the same way as V2 presets." does not mean that the v1 presets cannot be upgraded to v 2 in ways that other companies have recompiled samples, multisamples, and presets. I fully recognize that IK might not have the ability to upgrade the previously purchased v1 presets to v2 presets the way other companies have recompiled resources. That's why I am asking.

Yesterday, independent of these two posts, I wrote a draft of an analysis of how bypassing likely played a role in the confusion - frustration - dissatisfaction chain of reactions related to the upgrade/update to MODO DRUM based on different ways in which "1.5" was linked to "MODO DUM." At the end I distanced myself from what I saw as IK bashing on the part of some IK product users since I wanted to emphasize a positive, constructive approach. Unfortunately, new posts erase the forum reply edit buffer and I don't think I saved it in notepad. Found it! (See below.) Decades ago I learned to dislike what I call "defense wars" when it comes to communication. From what I have seen, it doesn't lead to positive outcomes. On the other hand, I believe that reaching out in openness can often resolve issues including those based on miscommunication. I didn't finish the last sentence because I was grappling with how to say say something like, "show how words and their presentation can lead to misunderstandings," "build a bridge between consumers and IK," and a few other similar ideas. I had more or less decided not to post this, but based on the two quotes above (what I saw as IK bashing + a defensive grenade launched as a reply) I decided it is relevant and might even serve a useful purpose. ------------- @Peter - IK Multimedia As for the main topic (the Syntronik 2 Group Buy), just so you know, I have repeatedly stated in several places that I really like (a) having four "Oscillator" layers and (b) the option to choose from the wave sets to tweak/design my own presets. As for my own consumer behavior I am still open to participating in the Group Buy even though it might be better for me personally to wait. So, please don't lump me into the category with "IK bashers" because I have tried to explain what I see as "bypassing."

We will have to agree to disagree. I have looked at other instances of the customer confusion and have seem similar instances of miscommunication. I was trying to be helpful because I have noticed among IK users what be might called be a love-hate relationship: Many users really love the virtual gear and at the same time have major issues with things IK does and doesn't do. I could be wrong but to me the issues seem to cause things like confusion, frustration, disappointment and in some cases resentment of how IK treats customers. As I wrote above: By the way, as for this (the prior reference to transparency) to which you say I misunderstood your reply: I agree completely. In fact I agreed when I first read it. In addition, I went a few steps beyond and offered an explanation from communication theory for how I believe the confusion and miscommunication was based on what's known as "bypassing." Unfortunately, based on your reply it seems to me that you did not appreciate my explanation. I was hoping you would see the value in it. I stand by my analysis which I offered freely and openly of how in this case "bypassing" led to repeated attempts by several IK consumers to get clarification.

Thanks for bring this up and for all the discussion points raised. Its been a while since I explored the interactions between screensets and workspaces and the implications for personal workflows. I tend only to use workspaces nowadays because they meet my needs quite well. But, the discussion has been giving me some ideas for new workflows that make use of both. I probably won't have time for another deep dive myself for a few weeks (maybe some mini shallow dives), so I'd be interested in what others have to say. For example, I have not yet explored locking screensets in project templates (official templates or project files used as de facto templates), creating projects based on templates, and then switching workspaces. Also, I am not sure if and how the workflows would be different depending on the "[ ] Apply Workspace on Project Load" setting (checked v. uncheck). If anyone knows (or does the explorations) I'd be interested.

For all practical purposes, it means it will play sounds that you own from Syntronik 1 and Syntronik 1 Deluxe, but they will not be editable in Syntronik 2. For that you need the full or MAX version which will upgrade the sounds (as opposed to merely hosting them). 2022-04-22 UPDATE: Based on what I had been reading from IK at the time, it seemed that my above comment was true. However, over the past few days there has been additional discussion both here and in other forums and it now seems my references to playing and upgrading "sounds" wasn't the complete picture. Based on recently posted discussions: I now believe that to IK "synths" refers to what I would call "the underlying synth engine" as opposed to what can be called "content" (presets, samples, etc.). I now believe that IK did NOT intend to mean that "previously purchased synths" included the "instrument presets." In other words to IK, "synth" meant "synth engine" not "synth product." In short, "upgrades previously purchased synths" does not refer to previously purchased instrument presets. With this recent clarification I now understand that: In terms of CS and SE "hosts previously purchased synths" means they will play sounds that we own from Syntronik 1 and Syntronik 1 Deluxe (as I said). In terms of Full and MAX, "upgrades previously purchased synths" means that we now get an upgraded synth engine which: can be used to edit new presets (factory and user) using: the new Edit Panel, including up to 4 "Oscillator" layers what IK calls "wave sets" Regarding my original post: For all practical purposes, any version of Syntronik 2 will play sounds presets that you own from Syntronik 1 and Syntronik 1 Deluxe, but they will not be editable using the new Syntronik 2 Edit Panel. They can still be edited using the Syntronik [1] style virtual hardware edit panel which is included in Syntronik 2. For recent details see, the IK FAQ sheet here.

There is a communication concept known as bypassing. One person (or party) "knows" what it means by the words and phrases it chooses (and the way information is presented). However, the meaning others get is different than what the person (or party) intends. When I see words like "clearly," "obviously," "completely transparent," and "more than people seem to think" as used in the above, I get the impression that there has been a lack of recognition of responsibility in the miscommunication. "We said it clearly. [Hyperbolized implication to get the point across:] Its your problem that you didn't understand what we intended by our words." Based on what I have seen many people in various forums (not just here) are confused or have been led astray by the words (and presentation) chosen to communicate Syntronik 2 messaging. Please recognize the importance of people who buy and use IK's products when they tell you they did not read into IK's words (and presentation) and automatically understood what was clear to those on the inside. The "obvious," "completely transparent" explanation above ("you cannot edit V1 content that has wave sets that aren't there") is a meaning that in-house people (insiders) would have by virture of their existing familiarity with the product and the way IK uses language. The way I see it from the discussions of the issues, it is not at all obvious to others who don't have that insider knowledge. Sorry to have to say this, but the people who have been trying to get clarification are not in error by seeking clarification if that's what you are implying by "clearly," "obviously," "completely transparent," and "more than people think." IK "knew" what they intended to mean. However, the intended meaning to many was unclear/confusing. Consider this specific example: IK may have intended "Hosts previously purchased synths" and "Upgrades previously purchased synths" only to refer to what I and maybe others would call the underlying synth engine. However, perhaps many users of Syntronik (like myself) consider the synths as products to include the instrument presets we acquired when we purchased the Syntronik synths. Finally after almost two months of trying to get clarification, I think I have now come to understand what IK may have meant by the words as presented. To me this is a classic case of "bypassing:" IK meant one thing by the language and presentation above [synths = underlying synth engine only]; however, some of us considered presets to be included in the "previously purchased synths" [synths = synth products]. Communication is interactional. To some of us, it was not at all clear or obvious what IK intended to mean. So we sought clarification.

To lower the ledger lines an octave, try changing the clef to 8va Treble if the original uses a Treble Clef.

I do not work for Cakewalk, but I was wondering about your post. Are you saying that adding a specific midi device (your drumpad), Cakewalk adds audio feedback (squealing)? If you mean it creates midi feedback, to me that suggests a routing issue possibly related to midi data being re-sent over and over (aka a midi loop). You seem to be suggesting it is a Cakewalk bug, but perhaps it can be fixed by changing your midi routing or gear settings. Now that I think about it, I used to have a drum machine midi loop issue (play a note or pattern and the midi data would be re-sent over and over), but that was a few decades ago. IIRC the issue was caused by midi out from the hardware going into the software and then midi out from the software going back into the hardware and the hardware resending the incoming midi data. Just trying to be helpful. Maybe you ruled the midi loop issue out already?

Yup!!!! In looking at the SYN2 versions of the same old instruments that come with Syntronik 2, the number of Generation 2 presets is small compared to the number of Generation 1 presets. I stopped making my table of G1 and G2 presets (numbers of each only, not preset lists), to try to work on the "hosting" v. "upgrading" issue. Now that I know it is a waste of time uninstalling/reinstalling to try to get the G1 presets to work with the new Edit Panel, I will probably get back to the table. Oh, in case you wonder why I just don't ask IK, I did--about two months ago--before I decided that if I want to have better numbers/details than on the IK site, I'd have to compile my own table. That being said, I really like the ability to layer up to four "oscillators" by using the wave sets that come with SYN2. For my own music tastes, this is the real power of the new version. If you haven't checked it out yet and you like doing sound design/tweaking, I'd recommend looking at some Generation 2 presets and giving the different wave sets a listen. We can layer up to four, and can adjust fine tuning and drifty on/off. Syntronik 2 CS is not sufficient to test the wave sets because the CS version (a "lite" version) doesn't provide all of the wavesets SE and Full (and I assume MAX) have. I believe the CS presets have only 1 (or 2 at most) wave set choices. From what I have seen the other SYN2 Instruments (purchased or promos) do have quite a number of wavesets. For example, with VCF3, I counted (multiple times!!) 106 Generation 1 presets and 28 Generation 2 presets. However, there are 42 wave set choices. JMO: Personally, as I told IK, I think if they were to provide the details, they might well motivate consumers as opposed to just putting misleading aggregate numbers in the comparison table. As I went from CS to SE to Full, my disappointment at the G 1 editing limitation and the small number of G 2 presets was lessened by having 4 layers to assign a large number of wave set options. Like everything, there are advantages and disadvantages (some of which I have tried to point out here).

That's about where I am too.. What I don't like about IKPM: It lumps all sound libs together. You have to go through it one by one to see if you are missing anything. Unless I am missing something.... PITA!! I might do this, too, so I can try to sell/transfer Syntronik 2 SE or TS 3.5 before they are totally worthless. ? (Either that or wait for TS 5 MAX when all previously purchased SYN Instrument Presets are "fully editable.") ?