marcL

Even for the upgrade of Samplitude alone they want $149 ! ?

That's exactly why I began to love iLok! Having problems with my Windows 10 PCs (new install) the iLok was the easiest to handle authorization (of course free plugins also! ?) and the handling of the plugins that I autorized with the iLok LIcense Manager locally was easy, too! Most of the other stuff was quite complicated (except those that provided an autorisation file), because each plugin provider did it differently and still there are some plugins I could not authorize till today (since 20-aug).

Yeah, I remember the good ol' Command Center! ?

As far as I know and how I understand your point there is already a functionality like this (I use it very often)! You can simply move the dB loudness scale on the track up- and downwards. Here is an example, the same clip in 2 tracks, but in the 2nd track I have moved up the loudness display scale:

Thanks! But in my case it was an OEM version, more precisely they were 2 OEM versions that I lost (d@mn MS!), the original HP W10 Home and a W10 Pro OEM that I bought later.

I saw exactly the same problems, even with new Melodyne editings. I have Melodyne Editor 5. As you said it is really difficult to edit. Also if I set the cursor location in Melodyne, the now time gets to a totally different location in CbB.

One very positive thing about Reaper that I have found out: With a Windows 10 Update my laptop could not boot in a regular way anymore. Even after 2 weeks I could not fix it trying all kind of manual boot repair (how I regretted to have chosen UEFI!). Thus I decided to reinstall Windows 10 and lost my license ? because I had added a SSD as boot disk (luckily I had bought a cheap spare license lately, I tip from the Deals forum!). Now I have a long way to go through all my program and plugin installations! ? Except with Reaper, I just could copy the mobile installation and it runs again! This was great in the old times of the PCs where this was possible with almost any program. All application configurations were placed in the application directory, no mess with registry and files in a couple of system directories like nowadays progress, the future, the almighty Windows 10!

IMO Windows 10 is the worst Windows since a long time! I nearly can't see any advantages for me, but a lot of new problems! Recently the last Windows 10 2004 update shot down 2 of my PC's! It wasted many hours of my life and it was absolutely not the first time this happened! I hate this update ***** (enforcement), it makes you feel like a slave of MS! To me the MS developers are the worst terrorists on the earth, they assault millions of people all over the world!

Okay, I understand now! ? You only want to stretch the clip as a whole, no intention to quantize audio! Sorry, in this case I have misunderstood!

I don't agree to that! I have tested several audio stretching implementations of other DAWs and also read about some more and IMHO they don't suit for professional work or only restricted to certain material (sometimes even confirmed by their DAW gurus)! The problem is that all of them that detect the transients automatically make a lot of incorrect detections and there you must have the possibility to adjust this like with AudioSnap! You must be aware that there is no algorithm to detect the transients absolutely correct, because there are instruments (like vocals) that allow to choose the transients in various positions to sound "correct". So all those flashy programs like Ableton that do it the "easy" way, they just cheat you! Because if you have wrong detections and no possibility to adjust it, the stretching is not usable at all, unless you allow the performance being destroyed! And some other programs (like Reaper) even lack a "real" stretching functionality. They provide only a very basic stretching support that is really labor-intensive! Back to AudioSnap: Aside from its brilliant design I agree with you that there are some issues (and I still hope it is being fixed one time), but they may be caused more by the stretching algorithms and by their application.

There are 2 ways to do it, either with AudioSnap or Melodyne. With AudioSnap: Import the mix into a project, the tempo does not matter. Use the "AudioTrnsnts" selection on the track (or tracks). If you have multiple tracks (stems) in the "mix" then use the drum track(s) for best results. Disable all transients that are in wrong places and add/move the other transients to fit the material. Open the AudioSnap menu and choose "Set Project From Clip", this creates a tempo map for the project, you're done! (maybe it needs some fine tuning?) I can't remember how to do it with Melodyne, but it has something to do with Audio to MIDI in the first step.

IMO some comments here against OpenSource sound more like necromancy or voodoo! ? The gossip about no standards and multiple versions with OpenSource wants us make believe that the world of the paid products is much better! But if I simply look at the reality e.g. of paid plugins I see dozens of preset managements, dozens of installation variations and even with the dll's have some venders very odd ideas (shells, additional dlls, ...). Also with the installation locations of everything else (docu, presets, uninstallers, ...) and with the autorisations reigns a real chaos! It isn't any better than in the OpenSource world, quite the contrary! In addition the "standard makers" like Steinberg create more chaos than standardization. I have seen the same with database programming for example (SQL), in the end things are so different that the customer is bound to one provider! I do not mind that BandLab does not have any intention to make CbB OpenSource, they have paid for it and want to get something for it! That's absolut o.k. So this is not the reason why I write this, rather some imprudent and dull comments about OpenSource! (On the other hand there are also very intelligent and justified inputs like the one of @fossile).

I have sympathy for BandLab that they do not want to make it OpenSource! On the other hand there would be the possibility that a lot of coders could find potential bugs and report them exactly to the project leader (with code). Also most "professional" OpenSource projects have only 1 official version (tree) like products with "hidden" source! Thus this is no problem IMO. New ideas and features come only into the official version by approval of the project leader or core team!

It seem that I am an especially weird person (I know there are a lot of people on this forum that will applaud to this statement! ?)! For me the best installation manager is a zip file, because there I have full (nearly) control what components to install where and maybe later uninstall correctly (as I want it, without dead bodies everywhere in my systems! ?). Everything without trouble, no plugin provider specific chaos and exotic ideas! I know, I am an old fart talking of yester advantages!

I just sent you a tiny example of the last painful ? AudioSnap clip (vocals). There are many clips that fail. If I'll have the next failing clip where a part of the clip is repeated (duplicated) in the bouncing, I will send it, too, because I think this could be especially helpful. Thanks, Marc!

I prefer to use the "Radius Solo" (Vocal, Bass) algorithms for offline rendering (best quality!). I had tried to use "Elastique Pro" with a problematic clip, but there the waveform changed in some positions dramatically (visible without zooming in) and did not sound like the original, though the shifts were minor! I see the problems in a lot of different projects (I always create a new project to fix a single track), so I guess it has nothing to do with the project or the clips! But nevertheless, the next time I have an example I isolate it and send it to you.

Hi, Cakewalk development team! I keep my frustration back and try to be neutral in my problem description and question. I have several projects with very sloppy multi-track recordings in respect to the rhythmics. Some are very old recordings that can't be redone and yet have tempo variations caused by a tape recorder. I thought that's all no problem with the brilliant AudioSnap in CbB! I have been working now several weeks on it and my conclusion is that it is simply unusable as it is today. For me it is no problem that I have to adjust a lot of transients manually, on the contrary this is the big advantage of CbB that this is possible! But there are so often artifacts/clicks produced as soon as you bounce the AudioSnap clips! Also some transients are moved seriously by the bouncing compared to the quantized AudioSnap clip (you can see this very well by copying the quantized clip before). I would say that it is minimum each third clip that fails! I tried also to simplify the thing in working with short clips whose contents had been centered first. But I am at my wits end! By the way I could recognize that sometimes it happens that a part of the clip's wave is being repeated what caused artifacts! To cut a long story short: Are there any intentions to fix AudioSnap bouncing in the near future? (not AudioSnap itself, it runs perfectly, but the bounce of AudioSnap clips!) Otherwise I will have to go the troublesome way and align the clips manually (what I already did sometimes), very elaborate work! I tried also with Melodyne, but the blobs do not reveal usable information where the transients are in some cases (synths, overlapping notes, legatos, ...). Please apologize my critical, frank description and please do not feel offended! I just would be glad to get an answer (positive preferred ?).

I have the same experience and not only with Plugin Alliance. It seems that the VST2 specification is more precise in respect to presets than the VST3 one. Ironically the VST2 support is going to end now (big thank to Steinberg)! Also I see that many plugin providers implement their own preset management, maybe caused by the fxxxing VST3 specification. For us, the users this is cumbersome because you cannot learn one single mechanism!

And again, the bouncing of clips with AudioSnap is fatal !!! ? I tried to go on with my work on a bass track, but AudioSnap bouncing stopped me! When I had adjusted the transient detection and then used the quantize function all looked pretty well ?. Even the swing was considered (a cool thing that does not exist in most other DAWs, it's a pity that you can only use full percents, no decimals). But when I bounced the clip I had a lot of note shiftings (just to be clear, not using quantize, but using bounce!), some even worse than in the original clip and in one position there was a bad artifact, the wave form had been changed! Like this AudioSnap is completely unusable (at least for melodic contents) and not only for me !!! By the way I used the "Radius Solo (Bass)" rendering algorithm. I had tried other algorithms, too, and the shiftings were quite different, but the results were also absolutely unusable. "Elastique Pro" had even much more artifacts, in one position the wave form of a note could nearly not be recognized! ? Does nobody else have similar problems? Is it just me? Do you use AudioSnap only for percussive contents? What do the developers say?

To see a prove for the latter I just have to look at myself!!!

If the synth audio is mono (track interleave setting), then a freeze adds about +3dB. In the case the loudness was too hot if may even distort caused by clipping. So just keep that in mind! It is also interesting that changing the interleave from stereo to mono (unfrozen track), then the loudness level increases already +3dB, i.e. after freezing it is +6dB louder! With stereo synths there may only be a difference if FX has been included in the freeze (as mentioned above) or if the synth values have been changed.

Not at all! There is an additional point in respect to the coding: Most things are not that easy that you can just write 1 single code statement, no, you have to program a whole bunch of code and believe me, there are so many ways to do the same thing in code. Even if you use library code, so are the call sequence and parameters essential for the results! And of course the libary and programming language that you choose! Also the logical order of your processing is extremely relevant, because many calculations have some sort of "clipping". To cut a long story short: It is 100 percent certain that such complicated things like audio processing have different results by different developers! But whether the difference is really perceptible is another question!!! (My sense of hearing is so bad nowadays!)

Generally that is true, but if VST2 is no longer an "active" plugin variant, then its support in DAWs and Audio Editors will become more and more outdated. The focus will go to VST3. We have seen this already in the last 2 years, also with plugin manufacturers. The positve is that it will come a day when most of the current plugins are VST3 (but then there is probably VST4 ?), but as said then it will be up to you to handle old VST2's (32 and 64-bit). One thing that I really dislike with VST3 is that most installers do not allow to choose the VST3 subdirectory path/structure and so it gets a bit chaotic in the folder. Okay, you can move them manually (with almost all plugins except XLN Audio's and Celemony's), but this is really a step backwards! Also preset handling gets more and more diverse, because many manufacturers invented their own "exotic" way. I guess caused by the lack in the VST3 specification and the double effort for VST2/3 and other formats. The other thing is that if you use older DAWs, Editors that are 32-bit or don't support VST3, then you have to install the same plugins in 3 versions and this is awkward IMO.

I like MacAllan and MacLeod (fluid), but I eschew MacInDodge !!!

IMHO it is a shame that so many really good plugins are more and more disused, because the fxxxing Steinbergs always change the concept. I have a long list of disadvantages for VST3 compared to VST2, maybe there are a few technical advantages, too. But I am sure that the advantages do not outweigh the disadvantages, especially for the users (audio engineers, musicians). Like that, for years many of us have to deal with 3 to 4 plugin versions at the same time (32-bit vst2/3, 64-bit vst2/3) caused by the Steinfrog's dictatorship. I know, there are those ones that conjure not to use 32-bit anymore! But if you use additional hosts like SoundForge 11 or Audacity, ... ? In my first sentence I mentioned good plugins and I know a couple of extraordinary, exquisite 32-bit plugins (most free). Even me do not use them anymore to avoid the organisational trouble. Though it is a pity, because I like more and more the plugins that have a simple, straightforward authorization and most of them are old ones (but there are some exceptional developers also nowadays). Why do I speak of authorization? A week ago one of my systems failed and until today I am fighting with authorization and other recovery! I guess it will be the 2nd huge loss of plugin resources for us when VST2 is goes away, not all plugins will be updated to VST3 (especially the free ones and the ones of small manufacturer). ?