Arranger Sections on Midi Tracks

[Sridhar Raghavan]

I am on Windows Cakewalk 2004.02 Free Version

I upgraded to this version a few weeks ago.

 

a) I am puzzled by the behavior of Arranger Sections.

I have a three MIDI tracks that play fine sending midi messages to my Korg PA600. 

I created three Arranger Segments (for testing).

When I play any of these Arranger Segments, Playing starts on the Arranger Segment but keeps going instead of stopping at the end of the Segment.

I have been using the Arranger for a while, but this seems to a be new behavior.

b) I also created an arrangement.

When I play it (with Loops or Without Loops) playing starts at the first segment and just keeps going forward instead of stopping at the first Segment and going to the next segment etc.

c) Did anything change in the new Version. What configuration setting am I missing to get the normal/desired behavior of Arrangements?

Is it that Arrangements defined on MIDI tracks do not work anymore?

FYI, I imported the MIDI file into the project. Does that make any difference.

 

Appreciate any tips on what is going on, and how to fix it.

Thanks in Advance, Sri.

P.S. I know that MIDI arranger sections can potential have  due to:

Some Notes being ON coming in from the Left and

Some [other Notes] remaining ON going out from the Left.

The Reference Manual even talks about correcting for these. But I do not see those Menus on my version!

(Also see the attached screenshot)

 

[John Vere]

I gave up on the arranger a while back as I found it totally buggy. 
It’s only function for me is as more visible markers or for placement of lyrics. But even that screwed up a song one day that I wanted to cut out a chunk. So it’s off limits for me until they fixit. 
It seems to work properly in Cakewalk Next. As well as they copied my idea for the lyric display track. 

Grab yourself a Backstage pass and try this in Next. It’s a perfect DAW for simple Midi and Audio stuff. 
 

[Terry Kelley]

I used the crap out of the arranger. I’ll check this and get back. I don’t think it ever stopped if there wasn’t another section set to play. 

[David Baay]

I have used it recently and not seen any of the mentioned issues. I just checked that project, did some temporary re-arranging and all seems good.

Are you starting playback by the button in the Arrangements section? If you start playback normally by the Tranport module or Spacebar, the whole project will play through normally without regard to any arrangement.

And the Event Overlap Threshold function you mentioned is present at the bottom of the MIDI tab in the Track View submenu.

[Sridhar Raghavan]

John/Terry/David

Thanks for your attention and taking the time to post your comments. 

John: What are Backstage Pass and Next?  I assume you are pointing to a different environment.

Terry: look forward to more from you after your check.

David: I am playing from the Arranger Segment and/or Arrangement. Not from the main transport buttons.

As of now now, I am still in an impasse and will explore things with conscious randomness hoping for discovery.. trusting that it is some amiss configuration, that has surfaced.

 

br Sri.

 

[David Baay]

Might help to share your test project.

[Sridhar Raghavan]

David You just triggered an important thought for me. 

What I have in Cakewalk is a Midi file and its tracks. This may be it.

How do I save it as a Project?

Save as .. does not give me an option to Save as a Cakewalk Project (a CWP file)

I will create a Project and import the midi file and check.

br Sri.

 

[Sridhar Raghavan]

Dave/All

That was it. 

I created an Empty Project, Imported the Midi File. Created the Segments and an Arrangement.

Everything Plays fine as expected.

Dave Thanks a Lot  for you casual request. ..

Why we need good sounding boards like you folks,  who can trigger directions and serendipity.

Here is the new Screen Shot. 

br Sri.

P.S. I hope we can somehow highlight this to Developers, so they can at a minimum add it to FAQ.

 

[Sridhar Raghavan]

And the Event Overlap Threshold function you mentioned is present at the bottom of the MIDI tab in the Track View submenu.

Thanks David for this as well. 

regards Sri.

[Sridhar Raghavan]

Just noticed that when I import a MIDI file into an empty project,

 

the MIDI tracks are loaded, but

all the Markers are forgotten.

These markers are critical for me and cannot lose them.

Is there some configuration to preserve markers during midi file import?

 

br Sri.

[Promidi]

If your audio engine is not running, then the arranger will not play out of order.

If you are using MIDI only in your project and your metronome is set to MIDI, then the audio engine would not running

Check the engine running status in your transport module.

What you need to do is either create an audio track, or set your Metronome to use Audio.  Do what ever you need to do to get the audio engine to run.

Once the audio engine to running, then the arranger sections will play in the order specified.

[Promidi]

12 minutes ago, Sridhar Raghavan said:

Just noticed that when I import a MIDI file into an empty project,

Open MIDI files in Cakewalk rather than importing them.  Then the markers will be included.

[msmcleod]

1 hour ago, Promidi said:

If your audio engine is not running, then the arranger will not play out of order.

If you are using MIDI only in your project and your metronome is set to MIDI, then the audio engine would not running

Check the engine running status in your transport module.

What you need to do is either create an audio track, or set your Metronome to use Audio.  Do what ever you need to do to get the audio engine to run.

Once the audio engine to running, then the arranger sections will play in the order specified.

 

1 hour ago, Promidi said:

Open MIDI files in Cakewalk rather than importing them.  Then the markers will be included.

Both these solutions are correct. 

To get around the arranger issue, add a single audio track to your project or a simple instrument track.

Also I'd highly recommend turning off the event overlap threshold unless you absolutely know what it does and what to expect. 

On the rare occasions I use this, I'll set it to 1/64th note or 1/128th note, but certainly no higher unless there's a specific case involving a single section where I need it to pick up a leading note.

[msmcleod]

7 hours ago, John Vere said:

I gave up on the arranger a while back as I found it totally buggy. 
It’s only function for me is as more visible markers or for placement of lyrics. But even that screwed up a song one day that I wanted to cut out a chunk. So it’s off limits for me until they fixit. 
It seems to work properly in Cakewalk Next. As well as they copied my idea for the lyric display track. 

Grab yourself a Backstage pass and try this in Next. It’s a perfect DAW for simple Midi and Audio stuff. 
 

We're not aware of any bugs in the arranger, and FWIW Next uses literally exactly the same code.

The only thing that might give you unexpected results is the event overlap threshold... just turn it off, or set it to a very low note value.  It's designed to include notes that start or finish slightly before/after the section boundaries.  This can be useful if you've got unquantized piano parts, but really, using the arranger for anything that isn't snapped to the grid (at least on the section boundaries) is asking for trouble.

I'll quite often have unquantized parts in a song, but I always make sure the start/end of of a verse or chorus always start/end exactly on grid.  This removes the need for the event threshold completely.

[Sridhar Raghavan]

Promidi

Thanks very much for the tip about Opening rather than importing MIDI.

Works perfectly remembering all the Markers. 

 

Promid/msmcleod

 

Thanks for adding additional important tips/details to this discussion.

Right on the money. 

I am coasting along fine now, with no issues, and better educated.

 

regards Sri.

 

 

[John Vere]

My midi tracks are normally on the grid. But the issues I encountered were all to do with using normal editing to remove or copy paste parts of tracks or whole sections of songs. Once you add the arranger these edits will go south on you. 
I also noticed the commit arrangement to project never seems to work. 
 

[Promidi]

45 minutes ago, John Vere said:

My midi tracks are normally on the grid. But the issues I encountered were all to do with using normal editing to remove or copy paste parts of tracks or whole sections of songs. Once you add the arranger these edits will go south on you. 
I also noticed the commit arrangement to project never seems to work. 
 

My MIDIs tracks are never on the grid.

What I do if I want to copy, I move FROM a little back from the measure where I want to copy from to capture any events the occur slightly before the measure.

Then move NOW the same distance back from where I want to paste, then do the copy and paste.  That way, any events the occur slightly before the measure are also copied. They also are placed at the right location relative to that measure.  I use a CAL script to move NOW.

EG

[Sridhar Raghavan]

ProMidi

 

Thanks for the pictures and explanations for managing MIDI segments with note spills crossing the boundaries.

Can you share your Cal Script for Move Now. It might very handy for me.

 

BTW, I generate my MIDI files as needed (custom Python Code), from my specification expressions.

For example, for Korg PA Styles Creation.  I can take care of the note spills.

Sort of Like Zero Crossings in Audacity. (BTW how do I do these for Audio Segments in Cakewalk?)

 

There are also other scenarios, where I create Korg PA Style Midi files from existing MIDI songs.

Here, the segments,  a la Marked regions,  are precisely length bound (without gaps!). 

Here, I may draw on your approach and scripts. This is WIP.

 

br Sri.

[Promidi]

6 minutes ago, Sridhar Raghavan said:

Can you share your Cal Script for Move Now. It might very handy for me.

Sure.

 

Goto_from_offset.CAL

[Sridhar Raghavan]

Thanks ProMidi. Will play with it tomorrow. regards Sri.