jono grant Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Trying to figure out what would cause this. If I snap TO a clip, it snaps perfectly. If I place a marker there, the marker is not accurate. Like it's snapping to some other grid. Also, when I try to cut/paste or cut/paste special, when I paste the data to my cursor, it's not perfect!!! It's off by several samples. Similar to the amount that the marker is off. I don't have zero crossings selected. Why would this happen? What is it snapping to? PS. If I paste TO a marker, it will paste to the marker, but the marker won't go where I want it! 😠 (no tempo changes in the session) Please help!! Thanks Jono 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helios.G Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 I've had this issue for ages. What I tend to do is set up my markers, however many I need, and zoom in to the sample level and make sure they are on grid one by one. Since I don't like doing this every single damn time, I've just got 3 basic templates set up to build projects from that I go to now, and I haven't done this in a while. Sorry you're having trouble with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 My guess is you're enabling Lock to SMPTE. A SMPTE frame (1/30 of a second) is 64 ticks at 120bpm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono grant Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 1 hour ago, David Baay said: My guess is you're enabling Lock to SMPTE. A SMPTE frame (1/30 of a second) is 64 ticks at 120bpm. Not sure where I'm locked to smpte. The markers aren't locked to smpte. I'm working with a film that is at 23.97 fps. My sync is set to audio. (sync to my UAD sound card) I should be able to put a marker or paste a clip to any sample, no? Is there a way to do that? (I can drag a clip anywhere, it's when I'm pasting or adding a marker. Thanks J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutrageProductions Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) 17 minutes ago, jono grant said: Not sure where I'm locked to smpte. The markers aren't locked to smpte. I'm working with a film that is at 23.97 fps. Just checking: Drop frame video (color, the most common) is at 29.97fps. Actual film usually runs at 24fps (+/- calibration error). You may have a typo there. Edited February 21 by OutrageProductions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Yes, you should be able place markers and clips anywhere when snap is disabled or exactly on the snap grid if it is enabled. Can you share a minimal project that isn't working as expected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono grant Posted February 23 Author Share Posted February 23 (edited) On 2/21/2024 at 5:04 PM, OutrageProductions said: Just checking: Drop frame video (color, the most common) is at 29.97fps. Actual film usually runs at 24fps (+/- calibration error). You may have a typo there. No, most productions run video at 23.97 fps now. Not a typo. I'm a film/TV composer. It's been the norm for more than a decade. It started with animation but now everything I get sent is at 23.97. I haven't changed my frame rate in years. And I check on every project. Just in case. I've had issues in the past where I've worked at 29.97 and realize it's actually 23.97. In that case you can save your cues if they all get exported to start ON the second, rather than at a certain frame. It won't be frame accurate but it will line up as each second goes by. Don't know why I went into that but, what the heck? Still can't find what markers and pasting is snapping to in Cakewalk. There should be a way to work "wild" and not on any grid. J Edited February 23 by jono grant typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutrageProductions Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) 5 hours ago, jono grant said: No, most productions run video at 23.97 fps now. Not a typo. I'm a film/TV composer. It's been the norm for more than a decade. It started with animation but now everything I get sent is at 23.97. I find that interesting. Good to know. I've done work on three movies in the last 10 months and all of their edits and director reference cuts are sent to me at 29.97fps. I just checked with my music director buddy, and he has rarely heard of video at 23.976fps being used in the production/edit process outside of the digital distribution chain. He said they do reduce the frame rate when sent to some theatres or streaming. Maybe your sources are later in the chain than I am, or it could just be your MD/Edit house preference. But that makes sense in saving a little bandwidth, cuz average hoomans generally can't really discern the difference of anything higher than 24fps film. Maybe my sources just know that I'm still stuck in NTSC from 1999. 😁 Edited February 24 by OutrageProductions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) 21 hours ago, jono grant said: Still can't find what markers and pasting is snapping to in Cakewalk. There should be a way to work "wild" and not on any grid. in preferences -> project -> clock select the SMPTE/MTC and 23.976 FPS on the time - select sample on the samples and the number of samples if you're using SMPTE - use the H:M:S:F on the time and frames for the snap Edited February 24 by Glenn Stanton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 22 hours ago, jono grant said: There should be a way to work "wild" and not on any grid. When snap is completely disabled, the finest placement you can make is to the sample, so things effectively snap to samples in that case. When snap to Landmarks is enabled with Clips and Markers checked and the musical resolution disabled, you can snap markers to clips and vice versa. But be aware that markers will snap to clip boundaries (both starts and ends) in any track or lane. If you have a lot of tracks and clips with variable start/end times, markers could be snapping to some clip boundary that's not onscreen or that you're just not paying attention to. 1 hour ago, Glenn Stanton said: in preferences -> project -> clock select the SMPTE/MTC This clock setting is for synchronizing to SMPTE or MIDI timecode from an external clock source and has no bearing on editing/snap behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 26 minutes ago, David Baay said: This clock setting is for synchronizing to SMPTE or MIDI timecode from an external clock source and has no bearing on editing/snap behavior. true but he also asked about the SMPTE settings 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 16 minutes ago, Glenn Stanton said: but he also asked about the SMPTE settings Yeah the Format setting is relevant, but not the Source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono grant Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 2 hours ago, David Baay said: Yeah the Format setting is relevant, but not the Source. Hey David, I created a very small bundle file, where I copy paste some clips in various ways. - The first clip on track one, is just a random clip placed wildly on the timeline. - The clip after it on the same track, was the same clip, drag copied to my cursor (properly) and then I placed a marker at the clip start. Which is late. - The Clip on track two, was copy special/paste special to the exact beginning of the top clip. You can see it pasted a bit late. - The clip on the bottom track was special copy/pasted to the marker. It went to the same place as track 2 clip. *I also tried this with regular copy/paste same result. Can you see a reason for this? Thanks in advance! jono Sync Test Jono Grant.cwb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 39 minutes ago, jono grant said: - The clip after it on the same track, was the same clip, drag copied to my cursor (properly) and then I placed a marker at the clip start. Which is late. When you say "drag-copied to my cursor" do you mean Snap to Landmarks with Now checked? The marker is on the tick, but the clip is 3 samples late. When you insert a marker, it will go to the tick that that clip is nominally 'on', so if the clip is between ticks, there will be a discrepancy. I generally snap everything to ticks so I hadn't considered that possibility. I still need to look at the other steps, but I noted your snap is set to By rather than To which can also cause unexpected results if not intended. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) 1 hour ago, jono grant said: - The Clip on track two, was copy special/paste special to the exact beginning of the top clip. You can see it pasted a bit late. - The clip on the bottom track was special copy/pasted to the marker. It went to the same place as track 2 clip. *I also tried this with regular copy/paste same result. I can't repro that. For me, both Paste Specials went to the marker because that's the M:B:T time that comes up in the Paste Special dialog. I never thought about it before, but apparently Paste Special can only go to the nearest tick because of that. I'm not sure why yours would end up exactly 10 ticks after the marker unless the time somehow got fat-fingered before the dialog was OK'd...? But when I do a normal Ctrl+V with the Now time at the start of the clip, the new clip pastes to that exact time (i.e. 3 samples after the tick). Bottom line: You might want to consider revising your workflow to keep everything starting on whole ticks. 125bpm is 2 ticks per millisecond so there really shouldn't be a need to place anything with any finer resolution than that. Edited February 25 by David Baay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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