Are large vsts more likely to cause problems?

[T Boog]

Cheers guys. I've been downloading a bunch of free piano vsts. I notice that pianos like Keyzone and neo piano 1 are only about half a gig. Well, I'm tempted to download the Soniccouture Hammersmith and because it has a small library of ambient effects it's about 5gb.

Does the larger size of the file make it harder to run along side of other vsts?

I ask because I'm using a pretty humble pc with a single ssd drive and I'm usually running about 3 vsts at all times(YES, I have commitment issues 😒).

I also ask because I think I've encountered this problem before. I once downloaded MODO drums free version which was a large file and it gave me bad problems(although my cpu showed fine). I then downloaded the free Slate ssd5 drums(a much smaller file) and it works perfectly.

So is that the way it works guys... Are larger vsts more likely to cause problems while running with other vsts or should I be fine as long as I don't use the included ambient effects?

Thanks a lot!

[Andres Medina]

No tech expert here, but as a user, I've experienced that the performance of the VST depends more in the way it is designed to work, and less in the size of the sample content.

i.e, VSL has HUGE e libraries, but the performance is superb. Their VST engine is proprietary, and is really efficient.

Other engines working on smaller sample content are much less efficient and uses a lot of resources. 

[John Vere]

And don’t except to much from free plugins. 
In my tests the best free piano was Addictive Keys. It’s just missing the lowest and highest octaves no big deal for rock and roll. You have to sign up at XLN and install the product manager. You also get a set of Addictive Drums missing the Tom’s. 
The TTS-1 piano sounds better that a lot of the free ones. 
Even though I have it already I hope they bring back True Pianos. 

[T Boog]

48 minutes ago, John Vere said:

The TTS-1 piano sounds better that a lot of the free ones

I actually LOVE the TTS-1 piano. It's my go-to but whether I buy Sonar or not, it'll be gone right? Or would I still have access to it on the new Sonar if it's already in my pc?

[John Vere]

It is no longer included with the last version of CbB or Sonar but if you have it you have it. As long as you don’t uninstall CbB I would think. 

Just don’t ever loose the CbB full installer from last fall that did include it. 
In the future if you build / purchase a new computer you might not be able to save projects from CbB but I would think you would be able to install it and therefore still install the TTS-1. 
There’s always the Roland SC VST. It’s only around $70. 
I have a video I made exploring the options. 

 

[mettelus]

4 hours ago, T Boog said:

I ask because I'm using a pretty humble pc

As Andres said, a lot of this is how the VST is scripted and how it loads samples (if used). There is no cut and dry answer for this unfortunately, but VSTis that load samples into RAM so that they are instantly accessible will often be smoother than ones reading from a disc, but that would also bring up a RAM concern to make sure you can load them all. Internally a lot of VSTs can be CPU-hungry even if they do not have massive size to them, so using only what you need is often best (akin to Ozone Standard is a mastering plugin, do not use that on all tracks). For some instruments it can be better to bypass internal FX, then use a lightweight chain on the output.

A good portion is also the system, so do not forget old school things like freezing or bouncing tracks. CWPs themselves are rather small (as long as Region FX are bounced), so you can save things with a new name when you are "close" to committing, yet still back out to the previous version if you do have tweaks to make.

[CSistine]

An intensive usage of cpu and memory can reveal hardware and software issues that maybe not visible with low processing. This can be caused by processings that are running in parallel and interrupt themselves or by stressing hardware resources.

[Mr No Name]

6 hours ago, John Vere said:

It is no longer included with the last version of CbB or Sonar but if you have it you have it. As long as you don’t uninstall CbB I would think. 

Just don’t ever loose the CbB full installer from last fall that did include it. 
In the future if you build / purchase a new computer you might not be able to save projects from CbB but I would think you would be able to install it and therefore still install the TTS-1. 
There’s always the Roland SC VST. It’s only around $70. 
I have a video I made exploring the options. 

 

 

good morning John, 

                                  Can you provide a place to find this CBb full installer file you mentioned in your post above.  thanks.

[Will.]

46 minutes ago, Mr No Name said:

 

good morning John, 

                                  Can you provide a place to find this CBb full installer file you mentioned in your post above.  thanks.

Read the post here to understand what is happening with CbB. When done, click the link in that post to get the web install called Cakewalk Product Center -- it should be the 051 version. 

Click here Link to Installer

[mettelus]

3 hours ago, CSistine said:

An intensive usage of cpu and memory can reveal hardware and software issues that maybe not visible with low processing. This can be caused by processings that are running in parallel and interrupt themselves or by stressing hardware resources.

A lightweight alternative to Task Manager is Moo0 SystemMonitor v1.83. The Portable version is the best option, since it installs nothing on your machine and you can simply run that when needed (and use it from a thumb drive as well). If you right click anywhere on the GUI you can choose to "Keep on Top" (option near the very top) while working. If your machine starts to get sluggish, pay attention to the [Bottleneck] and [Burdened By] at the top and what processes under [CPU Loader] and [HDD Loader] may be triggering them. Although it doesn't go into the detail of the Task Manager, the Bottleneck/Burdened By fields are handy for when they get triggered and it takes up far less screen space to use.

[John Vere]

6 hours ago, Mr No Name said:

 

good morning John, 

                                  Can you provide a place to find this CBb full installer file you mentioned in your post above.  thanks.

It’s all in the video. 

The link @Will. Posted is the latest version which doesn’t include the TTS-1. 
You need a full installer from 2023. You can tell but the file size. 

Edited April 13 by John Vere

[Starship Krupa]

17 hours ago, T Boog said:

Does the larger size of the file make it harder to run along side of other vsts?

I ask because I'm using a pretty humble pc with a single ssd drive and I'm usually running about 3 vsts at all times

What are the exact specs of your "humble" PC? Processor? RAM?

My favorite virtual piano is MeldaProduction's Meldway Grand, which is 60GB of samples. It runs with no issues on my laptop system with 16GB RAM.

18 hours ago, T Boog said:

I once downloaded MODO drums free version which was a large file and it gave me bad problems(although my cpu showed fine). I then downloaded the free Slate ssd5 drums(a much smaller file) and it works perfectly.

Correlation vs. causality.

What exactly were the bad problems that MODO Drums caused?

Plug-ins may be written to make efficient or inefficient use of RAM and CPU resources, they may have bugs or be bug-free. The size of the install file has little to do with either. In the case of Meldway Grand, they are obviously not loading all of the piano samples into memory at the same time or it wouldn't be possible to use it on my 16G laptop system.

[T Boog]

4 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

What are the exact specs of your "humble" PC? Processor? RAM?

Hi Krupa. 

Intel core i5 2nd gen,16 gb ram, 3.10 ghz proc, 1 TB ssd drive. 2.0 usb ports, and Pamela Anderson Baywatch screensaver 😉

(Btw, can someone please tell me how to keep these specs listed at the bottom of my messages that way u guys don't have to keep asking me?)

Ok, the prob with Modo drums vst was a CONSTANT static-y popping noise. Again, my cpu showed low usage. It did seem like more of an incompatibity issue.

Btw, I did install the Hammersmith piano vst last night and it works perfectly, even with 3 other vsts running simultaneously.

Man, I highly recommend downloading the Soniccouture Hammersmith. It's free and works with the free kontakt player. It has a similar response to the tts1 piano(immediate & consistent) and it's also chime-y and perfectly tuned like the tts-1. However, it's even richer and more realistic. It also has extensive eq adjustment, mic IRs, mechanical noises, and some great verbs. If u have 5gb of free space, try it out. (there's also demo vids on YouTube of course)

[Starship Krupa]

6 hours ago, T Boog said:

Intel core i5 2nd gen,16 gb ram, 3.10 ghz proc

Ah, the legendary Sandy Bridge. Plenty of those still in service. If I had it, I'd be tempted to see if it would take an i7 2600 (making sure to update the BIOS first). $30 on eBay. But I like polishing the 'tater.

Your system is fine as long as you do what you're doing, which is vet your plug-ins thoroughly. My philosophy is that if a plug-in is eating up too many resources on my computer, it ain't the computer that needs to be replaced.

6 hours ago, T Boog said:

can someone please tell me how to keep these specs listed at the bottom of my messages

At the upper right corner of the forum page, click on your name and select Account settings. Then on the left, you should see a link for Signature.

6 hours ago, T Boog said:

the prob with Modo drums vst was a CONSTANT static-y popping noise. Again, my cpu showed low usage. It did seem like more of an incompatibility issue.

I suspect you're right.

Either MODO Drums or MODO Bass (can't remember which) was the first plug-in that ever refused to install on my old laptop (1st gen i7) because the processor was too old. Yours has the AVX instructions that they were asking for. The constant crunch might have been a matter of graphics (if you're using the onboard HD 2000 GPU or same age external card). Software that makes heavy use of DirectX can have problems with certain older GPU's.

Lotsa good pianos and drums in the Freeware Instruments topic. As you say, Hammersmith is a good free piano, so is the Monastery Grand that comes with the free MeldaProduction MSoundFactory Player.

Here's a tip for keeping older systems viable: download HWInfo64 and use it to monitor your CPU speed and temperature. Sometimes cooling issues can slow an older system down because heatsink paste is getting old and/or the case is filling up with dust. Both  have easy fixes. HWInfo can tell you if your system is throttling due to getting too hot.

[T Boog]

12 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Here's a tip for keeping older systems viable: download HWInfo64

Thanks so much bud! There were a lot of pearls of wisdom in ur message. Firstly, I downloaded the HWInfo64(Although still trying to understand it all)

And I love the idea of upgrading to the i7. I had no idea I could do that. I'm fairly technically savvy but I've never worked on a computer in my life. I'll def research that more. 

Also, thanks for confirming that my system should be fine as long as I vet vsts. I've kinda leaned that by trial & error. I'm still surprised by what this little computer is capable of.

Btw, I'm actually a very good guitarist but I've always used pretty humble gear. Back in the 80's, I got a kick out of blowing other guys off the stage using a partscaster and a cheap amp and watching them walk away defeated with their highend gear. (wow, I just reaIized I'm a little sadistic 🤣)

But u know it's the Hustle & Flow thing... The size of the fight in the dog. Or like the Beatles only having 4 tracks. There's a beauty in that.

Anyway, Thanks again!