Piano sustain problem

[jkoseattle]

I just re-set up my whole studio exactly how it was before (or so I believe...) I had been having problems getting Midi data into Cakewalk, but that problem just disappeared yesterday. (see previous thread).

Now I'm finding a new problem with my keyboard which I've never encountered before. 

On the piano:

1. Play a note and sustain it with the sustain pedal

2. With the pedal still down, play the same note again and hold the key down.

3. Release the pedal without releasing the key.

The note stops. The Note Off event triggered by the raising of the pedal is overriding the fact that the key is still depressed. 

What is causing this?

[David Baay]

What keyboard and are you monitoring the keyboard's onboard sound or using a soft synth? And if it's onboard sound, is it triggered by Local Control or by MIDI echoed through a track in CbB and back to the keyboard synth?

I've seen the opposite problem with some soft synths that sustained notes are stopped by All Notes Off (CC123) sent from the keyboard when the last key is released (not all keyboards  do this, but my Roland RD-300s did). This is a MIDI programming error specific to some synths (e.g.  TruePianos). But I've never heard of this happening the other way around as you describe it.

Incidentally, just to be clear, releasing the sustain pedal should cause the keyboard to send CC64=0 (or a series of events down to 0 if the pedal/keyboard implements  continuous sustain), not Note Off(s).

EDIT: I see from your other post about the MIDI problem that it's a controller-only M-Audio Hammer 88 . Strangely, the manual does not have a MIDI Implementation chart, so I can't tell if it ever sends CC123, but it does indicate that the sustain is On/Off only. So the big  question is what piano synth are you using?

Edited August 19, 2023 by David Baay

[jkoseattle]

I'm using Opus pianos. Good question though because I just installed a track of Cakewalk TTS and it does NOT exhibit the issue! So it's something to do with Opus. Thank you!! I'll go ask their tech support next.

[User 905133]

I see that Opus Pianos is from EastWest.  I don't have anything from them, but over the past several years I have looked at their manuals out of curiosity when I've seen Cakewalk users ask about midi issues. I got into the manuals just enough to see that what they do with MIDI can be very creative and can be very different from other MIDI implementations.

The online manual I found has a section on "MIDI Control Codes in Quantum Leap Pianos." Maybe that has information that will help sort out what's going on.  

Quote

MIDI Control Codes in Quantum Leap Pianos: This library uses special behavior for MIDI control codes that may apply only to pianos, such as those that mimic the sustain pedal and soft pedal on a physical piano.  etc.

Assuming this is the manual for the software you are using, also note that the different presets/instruments use sustain differently, have different modes, or whatever it is they are doing.

Quote

A Table of the Instruments The following table summarizes in a compact format the information listed above. The columns specify: Light-memory; the 7 articulation of sustain (default), sustain with pedal, repetitions, repetitions with pedal, soft pedal, soft pedal with pedal, staccato controlled by the Mod Wheel; release trails, and access to a 98-key extended keyboard.

When I have looked at their manuals in the past, I knew enough that without actual hands-on experience I would never he able to offer any help.  Unless another Cakewalk user has experience with these products, I think tech support is your best bet for help.

Apologies if the Opus Pianos you have is something different.

Edited August 19, 2023 by User 905133
added an quote from a section that might be relevant; added a link

[Promidi]

9 hours ago, jkoseattle said:

On the piano:

1. Play a note and sustain it with the sustain pedal

2. With the pedal still down, play the same note again and hold the key down.

3. Release the pedal without releasing the key.

The note stops. The Note Off event triggered by the raising of the pedal is overriding the fact that the key is still depressed. 

What is causing this?

Definitely an issue with the piano VST you are using.  Hopefully EastWest can get this sorted for you.

A similar thing happens with Arturia’s SQ 80 V synth when a patch with unison is enabled. (For my issue, I have contacted Arturia support, and they have acknowledged the issue and are working on it).