Playback .cwp stutters when project contains both .wav and .mid files when using Presonus AUDIOBOX USB96 [SOLVED]

[tdehan]

When creating projects (.cwp) I use my main beefy PC computer and a Focusrite Scarlett 212 interface.  My projects contain both .mid and .wav files.  Playing the .cwp works flawlessly using my beffy PC computer and Scarlett 212.   

When performing live I use a Microsoft Surface with a Presonus AUDIOBOX USB96 interface.  Playing the .cwp stutters when project contains both .wav and .mid files when using Presonus AUDIOBOX USB96.  If the project just contains .mid files there is no stuttering.

What am I missing here?

Edited June 18, 2023 by tdehan

[Bristol_Jonesey]

And what about if it's just audio on the MS Surface?

[John Vere]

Are you setting the Buffers high enough? What are the processer specs on the Surface pro, possibly just not enough for the projects? 

Also are you using effects on the tracks?  That can quickly bring a Whimpey computer to it's knees'. 

[tdehan]

11 minutes ago, JohnnyV said:

Are you setting the Buffers high enough? What are the processer specs on the Surface pro, possibly just not enough for the projects? 

Also are you using effects on the tracks?  That can quickly bring a Whimpey computer to it's knees'. 

Don't know about setting the buffers.  I've never done that in the past.  What should I set them to?

 

49 minutes ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

And what about if it's just audio on the MS Surface?

Not sure what you mean by audio on the Surface.  The audio is running through the Presonus digital interface.

[tdehan]

I think I may have fixed the issue.  One of the vocal tracks had a SEND to a bus with a vocal enhancer pluggin.  Once I killed that send and removed the bus the issue doesn't happen any more.

I would still like to understand better what the buffer settings do.  If playing with the buffer settings would allow me to use the particula effects bus I had I would prefer to use it.

[msmcleod]

When you use effects in your project, your computer has a small amount of time (a few milliseconds) to grab the audio data from disk (or from the output of a synth), run all the DSP code in all of your plugins, and send it on to your audio interface.

The size of each chunk of audio data, and the length of the time slot it needs to process it in, is determined by the ASIO buffer size and your project sample rate.

If your computer runs out of time before the next buffer is due to be sent to the audio interface, you'll either get clicks/pops/stuttering if it's just a little bit late, or a drop-out if it's really late.

Doubling the ASIO buffer size doubles the time slot the the computer has to do the processing, but in most cases doesn't double the amount of time it takes to do the processing  - i.e. it's not double the effort. 

Increasing the buffer size gives the computer more time to do the processing, preventing or reducing clips/pops/stuttering.  That time it's been given is the latency between the audio being read from disk, and it coming out of your audio interface.  So the downside of a larger buffer size is increased latency.

Decreasing the buffer size has the opposite effect:  it reduces the latency, but increases the likelihood of clicks/pops/stuttering as your computer has to work extra hard to get all of the effect processing done in a smaller amount of time.

[Bristol_Jonesey]

3 hours ago, tdehan said:

Playing the .cwp stutters when project contains both .wav and .mid files

This is what you said.

You also said it was fine when just ,midi

I asked what happens when it's just audio (.wav)

[John Vere]

1 hour ago, tdehan said:

Don't know about setting the buffers.  I've never done that in the past.  What should I set them to?

This is why I asked about your computer specs. Because some computers can run at very low setting but not so great computers can't. Lot's of people use lower buffers without issues but I find a buffer of 256 handles my project without issue.  Defiantly there are effect processor one should avoid especially playing live. You want stability and that comes with only using effects and instruments that are low CPU users.

And then the danger is as you increase the buffer size to get stability, you will add more latency which doesn't matter for playback but it sort of sounds like you are trying to process your voice? Guitar?   You would need a very powerful laptop to get away with that. 

The Buffer settings are found in Preferences under Driver settings or open the control panel for your interface. 

Edited June 18, 2023 by JohnnyV

[tdehan]

1 minute ago, JohnnyV said:

This is why I asked about your computer specs. Because some computers can run at very low setting but not so great computers can't. Lot's of people use lower buffers without issues but I find a buffer of 256 handles my project without issue.  Defiantly there are effect processor one should avoid especially playing live. You want stability and that comes with only using effects and instruments that are low CPU users. And then the danger is as you increase the buffer size to get stability you will add more latency which doesn't matter for playback but it sort of sounds like you are trying to process your voice. You would need a very powerful laptop to get away with that. 

The Buffer settings are found in Preferences under Driver settings or open the control panel for your interface. 

I am not trying to process my live voice.  I was trying to process a recorded backing vocal track.  I will try editing the buffer size.

[tdehan]

16 minutes ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

This is what you said.

You also said it was fine when just ,midi

I asked what happens when it's just audio (.wav)

It plays just fine with just an audio .wav

Edited June 18, 2023 by tdehan

[tdehan]

I just checked the buffer size and it is set to 512.  Should I change it to 256?

[John Vere]

Not if you are getting drop outs, That tells me your computer is not coping,  512 is a pretty high setting already.  Leave it alone and deal with the effects that are causing this. 

Pure midi projects that use something like the TTS-1 can be played on the worlds oldest computers. And even a few audio tracks that are not being processed won't make any difference. 

But if you start adding instruments that use sample libraries to play the sounds the game changes.  
Audio files are even easier in a way and a few audio tracks in a project should not cause issues, but adding processing will. So just bounce the tracks to mix the processing into them and delete the effects. 

The same goes for any midi instruments that are process hogs, freeze them. 

Edited June 18, 2023 by JohnnyV

[Bristol_Jonesey]

3 hours ago, tdehan said:

It plays just fine with just an audio .wav

As John says above. Freeze your midi tracks before loading into the MS Surface 

[John Vere]

He's marked the topic Solved but then it's an eternal mystery how? 

[tdehan]

On 6/18/2023 at 8:37 PM, JohnnyV said:

He's marked the topic Solved but then it's an eternal mystery how? 

Not sure how it's a mystery.  I explained in my post this past Sunday what I did to resolve the issue.

[tdehan]

On 6/18/2023 at 1:47 PM, Bristol_Jonesey said:

As John says above. Freeze your midi tracks before loading into the MS Surface 

 I don't know what that means to 'Freeze' the midi tracks.

[Bristol_Jonesey]

1 hour ago, tdehan said:

 I don't know what that means to 'Freeze' the midi tracks.

Freeze any synth by clicking the icon with the snowflake icon :

 

[gustabo]

1 hour ago, tdehan said:

Not sure how it's a mystery.  I explained in my post this past Sunday what I did to resolve the issue.

where?

[John Vere]

Still a mystery 🤔

OK Now I see looking way back to last Sunday you did say you found a plug in that was the issue.  But this thread carried on I guess which made it confusing if you had been correctly dealt with. All good, carry on folks nothing to see here.. . 

Edited June 24, 2023 by JohnnyV

[tdehan]

17 hours ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

Freeze any synth by clicking the icon with the snowflake icon :

 

Like I said... I don't know what FREEZE means.