Scumbag ASUS: Overvolting CPUs & Screwing the Customer

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

 

[Jim Roseberry]

I've mentioned this before...

Configuring latest generation AMD (Ryzen 7950x) and Intel (13900k) CPUs is more involved than previous generations.

If you put the machine under any kind of load, you don't want to, "Set everything to automatic and forget it".

The motherboard needs to be properly configured... and the hardware (as a whole) needs to be tested under load.

You don't want to skimp on cooling.

You need to be aware of current limits of DDR5.

 

Asus motherboards work just fine (including the Asus Crosshair X670E Hero in this video).

I've used that exact motherboard with the 7950x... and it runs perfectly stable, doesn't thermal-throttle under heaviest loads, etc.

 

[Jeffrey O'Hara]

Hi Jim,

I think the problem mentioned in the video (and the videos Steve did prior), is more prevalent in the X3D versions of the Ryzen 7000 series... notably the Ryzen 7800X3D.

 

 

[Teegarden]

21 hours ago, Jim Roseberry said:

Configuring latest generation AMD (Ryzen 7950x) and Intel (13900k) CPUs is more involved than previous generations.

You don't want to skimp on cooling.

I've been following derB8auer for a while, he has shown that Ryzen 7000 series can be cooled much better than currently is possible (between 18-21 Celcius):
Ryzen 7000 Delidding - Unreal Temperature improvement with Direct-Die Cooling.

Because of his tests he developed his own watercooling adapter which goes on sale soon:

Ryzen 7000 Direct-Die Water Block

Another thing is undervolting, I don't have a 7000 series yet, but want to try this when I've bought one because of the following (translation from Tweakers, the largest Benelux tech site)
Make your CPU more economical and faster - Ryzen 9 7950X and Core i9 13900K tamed:

"Combining power limits and undervolts

The best is yet to come, because you can also combine both techniques to make the processor more economical. For this I have always set the settings used on the previous two pages, an undervolt of -25 and 0.03V respectively and power limits of 80 to 253W, at the same time. In the graphs you will also find the results of the test on standard settings, only the undervolt and only the power limits, so be prepared for a lot of bars.

It is immediately noticeable that with the Intel processor almost the highest performance results from this combination. We record 40,739 points with a combination of a 253W power limit and the undervolt. That is faster than stock and practically as fast as stock with undervolt. At AMD, the latter configuration narrowly wins, although 190W with undervolt is only 1.6 percent slower.

Even at lower power limits, we see the processors with undervolt perform significantly better. For example, at 80W, the 7950X and the 13900K both get 6 percent faster with undervolt. The reason behind this is basically the same as why the 7950X on the previous page got faster from undervolting. You can see that most clearly here in the voltage and clock speed graphs. The undervolt leads to a lower VCore voltage, which basically reduces power consumption. This frees up space within the set power limit. It is used by the boost algorithm to increase the clock speed and that naturally makes the cpu faster."

"Conclusion: The test results have proven that your processor does not have to slow down at all due to the introduction of a power limit and an undervolt. To highlight the highlights; the AMD Ryzen 9 7950X can still deliver 91 percent of its original performance at 54 percent of its original power consumption. And with only a quarter (!) of its original power, the Intel Core i9 13900K still scores almost 70 percent of its stock result.

The fact that these processors are tuned so inefficiently by default has everything to do with how competitive AMD and Intel are at the moment. For much of the last decade, Intel in the top segment had nothing to fear from AMD and therefore no reason to ramp up its products to the maximum. AMD's competition has led to this in recent years and you can hardly argue other than that AMD has chosen the same path with its Ryzen 7000 processors. Everything to have the longest bars in the benchmark charts."

The article explains well how to undervolt the processors (and there's also a very helpful forum).
Here's some other info about it: From 94 To 55 Degrees Celsius. Make your Ryzen 9 7950X the BEST!

So, apparently there is a lot of tweaking headroom to improve the most recent top processors and make them run less power-hungry and quieter. 

From what I've seen, I guess it should be possible to undervolt not to excessively and keep a stable running system.

Of course, I have no clue how it will be affecting the (internal) latency of the processor. Maybe that would suffer from it?

[Jim Roseberry]

Don't expect miracles from under-volting.

Too much... and it's completely unstable... or you're significantly under-clocking the CPU.

At that point, you'd have been better off getting a lower-end CPU that naturally runs cooler (less expensive and less hassle).

The 7950x needs top-tier 420mm water-cooling (same with Intel's 13900k).

Anything less is neutering the CPU.

 

While I get the point that heat dissipation could be more efficient, butchering a high cost CPU isn't an elegant solution.

You're much better off spending time/resources on proper cooling.  It's a guaranteed solution.  Choose the right one and configure it well... and it'll run quiet.

 

 

 

[satchmo-x]

Been tracking this, if only because of my profession and geek tendencies. This doesn't affect me as I'm an Intel loyalist, due to general compatibility (I've seen more "this is bug on AMD + whatever" issues than the number of computers I've owned, i.e. a LOT). It seems like AMD AM5 platform + Expo (XMP for AMD) + implementation ambiguity is the root cause of the problem, with ASUS crap implementation, support, and CYA amplifying a poor situation. As a long time ASUS user, I'm disappointed to see the wrong reaction from them, but not completely surprised due to a few experiences in the last 7 years regarding X99-II, Thunderbolt 3, and some general quality stuff. That said, the reaction from Gamers Nexus and Jayz 2 Cents seem more like "burn the witch" than anything productive. Call ASUS out? Yeah, the company should be 100% above board with "AMD screwed up, and then we compounded that with our own  screw up on top".  The "ASUS, you're fired", and "ASUS are scumbags" videos feel a lot more like click bait than productive discourse, which is unfortunate given the intelligence levels of those Youtube channels. Are they trying to fire up the base to put pressure on ASUS? Is the base so basic that they need that caveman level of stimulation to get them to light a fire the ***** (er... Arsus???  ) of ASUS? Are they just after clicks? I dunno. The CPU temps are dangerous, and ASUS' handling is very sub-par, but wow...

Also, no amount of heat dissipation is going to make up for the overtemps seen (200c on the heat spreader???? Holy $#@$). The CPUs are cooking to the point of fracturing the silicone, which is stated in one video to be around 1400 degrees. That just shouldn't happen these days. Unlike when I was a wee lad, CPUs generally have proper overtemp protection, and motherboards tend to have overvoltage protection. The fact that the  CPUs are cooking on motherboards other than ASUS proves incorrect overtemp protection in the CPU by AMD, and the fact that ASUS motherboards are running at voltages above 1.3 even/especially when the CPU isn't properly detected (driving those 1400 degree temps) proves incorrect overvoltage protection on the part of ASUS.

This is squarely on both AMD and ASUS. I hope they get it sorted, and in the right way for the end customers. That said, I'd avoid the AM5 +  ASUS combination for now. This'll probably end up in the deep pile of "remember when manufacturer A and B made that %$%^ storm?" tales.  Not even close to the first or last time for those words.

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

6 hours ago, satchmo-x said:

videos feel a lot more like click bait than productive discourse, which is unfortunate given the intelligence levels of those Youtube channels.

I don't think a company deserves anything more than that after doing the following:

- Releasing a supposed solution to the problem which voids your warranty and doesn't solve the problem, then attempts to hide it at a later point.

- Attempting to bribe customers which were selling their bad boards to a third party for testing.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Bruno de Souza Lino