Bend up 1/2 step MIDI and Audio

[Laurence Levin]

I have a song that modulates up from Bb to B, and I wanted for all of the melodic instruments to bend up during a half a bar. I can see how in MIDI Piano Roll View to draw the pitch bend. I have to draw from around 63 up to 127, and then the next bar, I have to draw a straight line at about 63 again so that the voice goes back to original unbent pitch. It's very difficult to draw a straight line. I tried to insert a command through Insert Controller > Wheel. I choose the channel of the desired voice, and I go from 63 to 127. Nothing happens. 

Also, is there a way to pitch bend audio to sweep up like a pitch bend wheel? Thanks. 

[Laurence Levin]

OK, I figured this out for MIDI - I think. It's very weird, but in Insert>Controller>Wheel, you don't put in the MIDI value - 0-127. You put in values according to the values in Piano Roll View. Zero pitch change is strangely -107 and a full notes pitch change, let's say from C to D is the highest number 8091. So to have an incremental bend up from C to D, you would put the time intervals, and then you would put -107 and 8091. For a bend from C to C#, you would put -107 and half of 8091 4095 (I think). It sounds right. Then you have to insert an wheel event of -107 to go back to original pitch. 

So complicated. But after I do this, I see straight horizontal lines going diagonally upward in track view going from the middle to 3/4 of the way up for my wished for pitch change of a half step (C to C# for example).

[sjoens]

1. Once you draw a controller, it will, as you say, make a line. You can now grab the line anywhere with the mouse* and drag it up or down to the desired level.

*You will see the mouse cursor change to a vertical line with up & down arrows.

If a precise value is needed, you can open Event List and enter/change it manually.

***It would be nice to double or right-click CC nodes to change values like we do for automation nodes.***

2. I use Graillon Pitch Shifter plugin in the FX bin where I can draw automation envelope for pitching audio.

[sjoens]

PRV Wheel CC data can be converted to an envelope but weird things can happen that require manual adjustment.

[Laurence Levin]

5 hours ago, sjoens said:

1. Once you draw a controller, it will, as you say, make a line. You can now grab the line anywhere with the mouse* and drag it up or down to the desired level.

*You will see the mouse cursor change to a vertical line with up & down arrows.

If a precise value is needed, you can open Event List and enter/change it manually.

***It would be nice to double or right-click CC nodes to change values like we do for automation nodes.***

2. I use Graillon Pitch Shifter plugin in the FX bin where I can draw automation envelope for pitching audio.

Thanks for being so helpful. I will check out Grilling.

I wish there was a manual way to make a STRAIGHT diagonal up or down line manually with the mouse when drawing a controller and when changing tempos. 

What are these wheel values called? It's so strange that -107 is no change in shift, and 8091 is the maximum value. Such arbitrary numbers. Am I correct that if 8091 is a pitch shift from C to D (whole step) that approximately half (4095) would be a shift from C to D# (half step)?

[scook]

18 minutes ago, Laurence Levin said:

I wish there was a manual way to make a STRAIGHT diagonal up or down line manually with the mouse when drawing a controller and when changing tempos. 

There is but not in the PRV.

In the PRV CC data are entered as a series of discrete values. Their resolution is dependent on the snap setting. 

 

Controllers may be drawn like any other automation in the track view.  CC automation is rendered into MIDI data during playback.

The tempo track works just like any other automation in the track view.

[Will.]

13 hours ago, Laurence Levin said:

I have a song that modulates up from Bb to B, and I wanted for all of the melodic instruments to bend up during a half a bar. I can see how in MIDI Piano Roll View to draw the pitch bend. I have to draw from around 63 up to 127, and then the next bar, I have to draw a straight line at about 63 again so that the voice goes back to original unbent pitch. It's very difficult to draw a straight line. I tried to insert a command through Insert Controller > Wheel. I choose the channel of the desired voice, and I go from 63 to 127. Nothing happens. 

Also, is there a way to pitch bend audio to sweep up like a pitch bend wheel? Thanks. 

You could also just check your pitch bend wheel on your Keyboard itself. I had this issue with Alesis 49. It was so frustrating, so i invested in a new keyboard. Might be unrelated to your problem, but every little detail helps. 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Will_Kaydo

[Laurence Levin]

1 hour ago, scook said:

There is but not in the PRV.

In the PRV CC data are entered as a series of discrete values. Their resolution is dependent on the snap setting. 

 

Controllers may be drawn like any other automation in the track view.  CC automation is rendered into MIDI data during playback.

The tempo track works just like any other automation in the track view.

OK, I see how to create the envelope in track view: You add an Automation Lane, select MIDI, and then select Wheel. I wish there was a way to select how many increments you want the wheel to go up or down. For my setup, it's at a default of one whole note. 

 

1 hour ago, Will_Kaydo said:

You could also just check your pitch bend wheel on your Keyboard itself. I had this issue with Alesis 49. It was so frustrating, so i invested in a new keyboard. Might be unrelated to your problem, but every little detail helps. 

- Yamaha PSR-SX900. I'm not upgrading until Yamaha comes out with a new model. 

I have a $2000 keyboard which I play professionally

[scook]

4 minutes ago, Laurence Levin said:

OK, I see how to create the envelope in track view: You add an Automation Lane, select MIDI, and then select Wheel. I wish there was a way to select how many increments you want the wheel to go up or down. For my setup, it's at a default of one whole note. 

How the data is interpreted depends on is plug-in/hardware synth. The DAW simply transmits the data.

[John Vere]

Seems instead of the pitch bend you should simply transpose the part by  +1 - N opens transpose dialogue.

It's common to modulate in the middle of a song or for the last chorus.

I would do this in Track view so I can highlight the timeline of the section for all the midi tracks minus the drums. 

If you want a slide into the key change then only draw it in the measure where this happens. 

[Laurence Levin]

25 minutes ago, John Vere said:

Seems instead of the pitch bend you should simply transpose the part by  +1 - N opens transpose dialogue.

It's common to modulate in the middle of a song or for the last chorus.

I would do this in Track view so I can highlight the timeline of the section for all the midi tracks minus the drums. 

If you want a slide into the key change then only draw it in the measure where this happens. 

Yes, I'm trying to slide a key up (+1) over a half measure. It's an ambient mix, and I want it to sound trippy.

Everything is sounding good now. 

[sjoens]

At 14 bits, Pitch Bend has a total value of 16383 so range is -8192 to 0 to +8191.

By most default settings this bends up/down 2 whole notes making 4096 a 1 note bend and 2048 a 1/2 note, etc.

However, the amount of bend depends on your keyboard/Synth settings. Dimension Pro softsynth allows up to 24 notes (2 octaves).

Using a Track View Automation envelope you can right-click a node and manually change it's value.

I find drawing Track View Pitch automation easier than CC's in PRV, but PRV is where I work most of the time.

Would be nice to have automation envelope drawing option in PRV.

EDITed: to correct values.

Edited January 29, 2022 by sjoens

[sjoens]

18 hours ago, Laurence Levin said:

So complicated. But after I do this, I see straight horizontal lines going diagonally upward in track view going from the middle to 3/4 of the way up for my wished for pitch change of a half step (C to C# for example).

If I read you right, this is because envelopes and cc data behave a little differently.

Example: A CC value of 0 is followed by a CC value of 4151, 3 measures later.

PRV is only affected by a CC when it passes through it, as designed. Converting CC's to an envelope creates an issue by simple connecting the "dots" and draws a straight line from the 0 node to the 4151 node. You have to manually add another 0 node below the 4151 node to fix it.

Do this by drawing a node in front of the 4151 node and then drag it directly beneath it.

[Laurence Levin]

12 minutes ago, sjoens said:

At 14 bits, Pitch Bend has a total value of 16384 so range is -8192 to 0 to +8191.

By most default settings this bends up/down 2 whole notes making -4151/+4150 a 1 note bend and 2075 a 1/2 note, etc.

However, the amount of bend depends on your keyboard/Synth settings. Dimension Pro softsynth allows up to 24 notes (2 octaves).

Using a Track View Automation envelope you can right-click a node and manually change it's value.

I find drawing Track View Pitch automation easier than CC's in PRV, but PRV is where I work most of the time.

Would be nice to have automation envelope drawing option in PRV.

Thanks! One advantage of a track view envelope in this case is that I can adjust the shape of the  pitch wheel bend - linear, fast, slow, add nodes. It's much easier to shape. Thanks for your detailed explanation!!

[sjoens]

You can actually use both cc's and envelopes at the same time. And as you've discovered, envelopes make a long transition from one bend to another, easy.