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Robert Bone

Question about live replication of the Toto Rosanna middle section pitch bends

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Howdy - I have always wanted to play out, the Toto song Rosanna, but was always stumped by one aspect of the instrumental middle section of the song, and how to replicate it live - though THEY seem to be able to do it.

In the closing section of the keyboard lead in the middle of the song, there are a series of pitch bends applied to chords - G major chords, in different inversions, starting with the root position of the chord, and bending each of three notes down to the corresponding lower pitch of the next lowest inversion, before then playing the next higher inversion and repeating the downward pitch bend back down to the prior inversion, etc....

SO - there never used to be a way to accomplish the above, outside of tracking each note separately in the studio, as each pitch bend had to move a different interval downward.

For example, start with a simple G major chord, with intervals 1-3-5 and notes G-B-D.  That then bends all 3 notes down to different pitch bend intervals - going from 1-3-5 (G-B-D) down to 6-1-3 (D-G-B), which involves the G bending down a 4th, the B bending down a 3rd, and the D bending down a 3rd.

The next set of bends starts with the next highest G inversion (1st inversion) up from initial root form, with intervals 3-5-1 (B-D-G), and bending down to the root chord again 1-3-5 (G-B-D) so the pitch bends of the notes are the B down a 3rd, the D down a 4rd, and the G down a 4th.

SO, each chord applies a combination of different pitch bend intervals for the 3 notes in each inversion of the G major chord, and was impossible to play live, on a single keyboard, at the time it was released.

AND YET - if you watch any of the live performances of late, showing the keyboard solo being played, they are somehow able to accomplish those multi-intervalic pitch bends, and I would like to understand how I can replicate doing that for live performance.

Apologies for the lengthy explanation of the issue - it has stumped me for years - does anybody have some sort of way I can accomplish doing this live?

Is it some sort of polyphonic portamento?

Bob Bone

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Posted (edited)

Could it portamento instead of pitch bend? Also the start sounds like a hard press for a slight pitch /tonal change before the slide begins.

Is sure is a nice solo. I have forgotten about that one. Let us know what you decide. 
 

Max Arwood

Edited by Max Arwood
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30 minutes ago, Max Arwood said:

Could it portamento instead of pitch bend? Also the start sounds like a hard press for a slight pitch /tonal change before the slide begins.

Is sure is a nice solo. I have forgotten about that one. Let us know what you decide. 
 

Max Arwood

In interviews, early on, I remember them joyfully explaining the separate pitch bends in the studio, for each note, and I have remained stumped ever since.

I am hoping somebody has solved this riddle.

Bob Bone

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Update - I still have to go through the examples I just found with a simple search in Google, but it looks like it is explained in numerous posts how to play it live.   (why it never occurred to me to look on the web - though in my defense, I had been stumped for almost 40 years, so had quit looking by the time such explanations had been put out on the web).

I wanted to update this thread right away, so I wouldn't have someone putting time and effort into answering my questions, when it appears the answers are indeed out on the web.  I am about to venture off to look at them, and will update this thread with what seems to be the winning formula.

Bob Bone

 

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Do you ever post on Usenet.Cakewalk.audio.  Poly mod is great about this kind of stuff. He’s a keyboard genius of sort 

Max Arwood

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2 minutes ago, Max Arwood said:

Do you ever post on Usenet.Cakewalk.audio.  Poly mod is great about this kind of stuff. He’s a keyboard genius of sort 

Max Arwood

I believe that old newsgroup vanished back in 2003-2004 somewhere in that ball park.  It doesn not seem to exist anymore.

THANKS for donating some brain waves on my behalf, to think of it, though.  :)  I think that the search results I have already uncovered will certainly have the explanations needed for me to accomplish this.

Bob Bone

 

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Bob, My first thought was they did it with a Yamaha CS-80. I thought I would find a clip of the solo and thought I would watch the official video; I did indeed see the CS-80 but they danced through the solo 😂

I guess the reasons I thought of the CS-80 were; polyphonic after touch and the ribbon controller.

I would love to see what you found out. Now to see if I can find a good clip of the actual solo. 😎

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3 hours ago, Simeon Amburgey said:

Bob, My first thought was they did it with a Yamaha CS-80. I thought I would find a clip of the solo and thought I would watch the official video; I did indeed see the CS-80 but they danced through the solo 😂

I guess the reasons I thought of the CS-80 were; polyphonic after touch and the ribbon controller.

I would love to see what you found out. Now to see if I can find a good clip of the actual solo. 😎

I am pretty beat up from a doctor appt, and will follow up in a couple hours. I am disabled, and doctor days are pretty brutal, so meds and a nap, and I will circle back.

Bob Bone

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There's a number of Toto live cuts as well that do seem to pull this off. I think I remember a Greg Philiganes version that I remember seemed to pull it off studio style. But that guys a genius - so generally not fair  :)

I think the way I would try to " fake it "  would be to hit the triad initially but release the root and just pitch the intervals down. Don't forget you get go right into the arpeggio too...those guys are.... nevermind.

I wonder if setting up a multy timberal patch ( same patch voice ) and setting a different pitch bend per voice might pull it off. Something the old K2k's might be good at.

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2 hours ago, RBH said:

There's a number of Toto live cuts as well that do seem to pull this off. I think I remember a Greg Philiganes version that I remember seemed to pull it off studio style. But that guys a genius - so generally not fair  :)

I think the way I would try to " fake it "  would be to hit the triad initially but release the root and just pitch the intervals down. Don't forget you get go right into the arpeggio too...those guys are.... nevermind.

I wonder if setting up a multy timberal patch ( same patch voice ) and setting a different pitch bend per voice might pull it off. Something the old K2k's might be good at.

I have the explanations by the Toto folks, on how they did it - just have not had time to finish going through them.  I WILL be posting my findings, as soon as I get to where I can read the articles.

Bob Bone

 

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Can’t wait to hear what they say.
 

The old group cakewalk.audio is Sri around.  Find a Newsreader then

cakewalk.audio

Just a few guys left.  Not all cake stuff anymore.  Polymod is the keyboard guru. Look in YouTube for  “route 66 larry benigno” It will blow you away. 

He might help. 
 

Thanks,

Max Arwood 

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